Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14585183#post14585183 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Emory Speight
Hey Bean, I will be receiving today a new 260g.(84"x30"x25 h") and was planning on copying your design for the drains. I had planned to use the calfo-style overflow going across one of the 30" ends, but it recently dawned on me that the 3" euro-bracing would be a problem for the internal calfo overflow. Can you or someone who has had to deal with this type of situation suggest a way to incorporate this type of overflow without going external? The tank has not been drilled and has no overflows so I will be starting with a clean slate. Thanks.

It will be tough. The bracing will make it hard (impossible) to work into the overflow box. Making the box big enough to work in is going to take up a lot of realestate... Sorry I don't have a better answer.

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14585523#post14585523 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Thomas Jones
Bean, First off awsome work. I saw you post and it got my wheels turning. I was thinking of doing a 75 like you. Do you think 2 set of the calfo overflows will work on a 75. I wanna try to set up a 75 without having to use power heads. I know a big pump is needed. My plan was to use 2 of the reeflo balck fin 6000. So each calfo would have approx. 4000 GPH. Any input or have I lost my mind.

2 boxes are hard to get into sync. You don't want to push that much through the sump anyway. Use closed loops instead.

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14592033#post14592033 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dzhuo
Anyone think this is similar to Bean's design and should work as well?

From the owner of this image, here is how it works:

BEGIN QUOTE

Once things get flowing, you dial the gate valve back until the water begins to back up into the overflow box. At a magic point, the water level in the overflow box begins to generate enough head pressure to precisely match the amount of flow you are putting in. At that point, water flows silently into the sump because no air is drawn into the drains...No air, no sound, no bubbles, no splashing in the sump..silence.

END QUOTE

It seems to me this is very similar to Bean's design and might actually work better ?

Work better? It is a "herbie" with an extra emergency drain. If you read my design notes, you will see why the open channel standpipe is an improvement. My setup is more fail-safe/redundant/self-tuning with less plumbing than what is pictured above. I.E I can safely get the same flow out of (3) standpipes with less chance of failure or the need to adjust the system. Also teeing (2) siphons into a single pipe is kind of pointless unless the lower pipe has the combined cross sectional area of the upper (2) pipes. My setup (or herbies) can use multiple siphons to increase overall capacity. In any case... to each their own

 

[dzhuo]

Sorry Bean, not mean to "insult" your design or anything. Just so you know, I am completely new to plumbing and when I say "better", I just mean the look of it (mostly) and I can understand the design behind it simply by looking at the picture alone.

With this herbie design, all 4 drains are standpipe and requires very little fittings, connecting, sealing, plumbing which is important for newbie like myself.

What's the significant fail safe your design has over this herbie design? It seems like 2 emergency drain are better than one?

Also, will the herbie be as silent as your design? One last question, I only have a 150g and I am planning to use Ehiem 1262 as my return, will the return by enough for either your or the herbie design?

btw, I did read your thread (to like page 20 or so) and will keep reading it ....

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14592225#post14592225 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dzhuo
Sorry Bean, not mean to "insult" your design or anything.

Not insulted at all... just cranking out responses so I can go to bed

Just so you know, I am completely new to plumbing and when I say "better", I just mean the look of it (mostly) and I can understand the design behind it simply by looking at the picture alone.

You kinda lost me there I responded to "better" in terms of function, not look

With this herbie design, all 4 drains are standpipe and requires very little fittings, connecting, sealing, plumbing which is important for newbie like myself.

You lost me there also. It takes (4) bulkheads. Mine takes (3). Both setups (mine and that one shown) take a single valve.

What's the significant fail safe your design has over this herbie design? It seems like 2 emergency drain are better than one?

I would direct you to the first post in this thread or my website for an explanation of the fail-safe and self-tuning features.

Also, will the herbie be as silent as your design? One last question, I only have a 150g and I am planning to use Ehiem 1262 as my return, will the return by enough for either your or the herbie design?

Either setup will work. The choice comes down to comfort level.

 

[dzhuo]

Hey Bean,
Would this herbie design work with a single emergency drain? I actually have my tank drilled for 3 holes thinking I am going to use your design but then I figure, for some reason, I thought this herbie design is easier for me to install but the problem is now that I only have 3 holes instead of 4. I was thinking 2 holes will be used as primary and the other one will be emergency. Will this work?

You lost me there also. It takes (4) bulkheads. Mine takes (3). Both setups (mine and that one shown) take a single valve.

I am mainly referring to this picture:

It seems like a lot of stuff to buy and connect, etc... The herbie only has a bulkhead and then a single standpipe.

 

[norgemorir]

First off, BeAn, great thread and plan, I've enjoyed reading the whole thread, though it has taken a week.

I would appreciate your input or any others who can tell me if this plan has merit. I've seen the topic mentioned and a few photos of versions but due to my future confines I wanted to propose this setup.

Constraints:
1) Use as little inner space as possible but get the best surface skim
2) Limit the protrusion into the room for the tank as a whole (just due to positioning in the room)

I have a window behind the tank with very large molding which sticks out 2~2.5" from the wall. I'd like to avoid cutting it or accommodating it in order to do a coast to coast externally.

So this plan places a smaller external box on 1 side of the molding which I would like to shrink to whatever length allows me to squeeze in the 3 pipes and have room to tweak them. Here for speed of getting something together, i put 22" length.

Thanks, Matt

 

[NVReefer]

Bean, super thead

Bean, super thead

i am a newb and have read most all of this thread, wow, amazing.
can you give me your thoughts on this,
100g cube, will have a sump. just trying to get the drains worked out, i see the driller tomorrow with my plan so any help is appreciated.
viewed from back

thanks for the great reading.

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14595377#post14595377 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dzhuo
Hey Bean,
Would this herbie design work with a single emergency drain? I actually have my tank drilled for 3 holes thinking I am going to use your design but then I figure, for some reason, I thought this herbie design is easier for me to install but the problem is now that I only have 3 holes instead of 4. I was thinking 2 holes will be used as primary and the other one will be emergency. Will this work?

With all due respect, I am having trouble following your logic. I can't answer your questions becuase they don't make sense to me.

Let me try though:
You said you think the other design with (4) standpipes is "easier" but you have 3 holes. If you go back and read the plans my design uses (3) holes setup in a specific way.

It seems like a lot of stuff to buy and connect, etc... The herbie only has a bulkhead and then a single standpipe.

No the herbie overflow has (2) bulkheads and (2) standpipes.

I don't think you are getting the differences and similarities betwee this setup and others.

They are all standard PVC fittings. ANY overflow plumbed through the back wall of the tank (or overflow box) is going to need the same basic fittings. The TEES can be replaced with elbows. I added the "cleanout" capability as an extra feature. It is optional. The shallow overflow box requires down turned elbows for my setup AND for a 'herbie' setup. They both require bulkheads and gaskets. They both require elbow and couplers. In a DEEP overflow box, you don't need the downturned elbows becuase the depth of the water prevents air from entering the standpipe.

My setup adds an "open channel" that helps with self tuning. The added airline is also an option but adds a very robust "fail-safe" feature to the setup. This is all clearly explained here and in the long thread and at my website. You may want to spend a little more time looking at oveflows and understanding how they work before you decide on what suits your setup best

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14595943#post14595943 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by norgemorir
First off, BeAn, great thread and plan, I've enjoyed reading the whole thread, though it has taken a week.

I would appreciate your input or any others who can tell me if this plan has merit. I've seen the topic mentioned and a few photos of versions but due to my future confines I wanted to propose this setup.

Constraints:
1) Use as little inner space as possible but get the best surface skim
2) Limit the protrusion into the room for the tank as a whole (just due to positioning in the room)

I have a window behind the tank with very large molding which sticks out 2~2.5" from the wall. I'd like to avoid cutting it or accommodating it in order to do a coast to coast externally.

So this plan places a smaller external box on 1 side of the molding which I would like to shrink to whatever length allows me to squeeze in the 3 pipes and have room to tweak them. Here for speed of getting something together, i put 22" length.

Thanks, Matt

Matt your proposed setup should work just. A few others have done the same thing in an effort to save space inside the tank.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Re: Bean, super thead

Re: Bean, super thead

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14596171#post14596171 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NVReefer
i am a newb and have read most all of this thread, wow, amazing.
can you give me your thoughts on this,
100g cube, will have a sump. just trying to get the drains worked out, i see the driller tomorrow with my plan so any help is appreciated.
viewed from back

thanks for the great reading.

Looks good.. Cheat one of the holes up 1/2" or so for the open channel. It will aid in getting the system tuned quickly.

 

[Heavy Hittah]

greetings everyone

greetings everyone

i am another who wants to use this setup, but need some help.

i have a non drilled AGA 75 gallon and at first i was going to do everything like beans design but now i decided to change it a tad.
If i went with a glass internal overflow half the length of the tank (or 24in x 5in x 5in) and i used 3 x1.5in bulkheads with a 30 gallon sump, what would be the best return pump to use so that the flow through the sump is not too fast?

 

[teesquare]

Matt:
I have a question about your proposed tank configuration: Your drawing ( which is very nice BTW...) does not show any trim or bracing around the top. Will the tank be an "Elos" style - or rimless tank? If not - you might want to model the trim/bracing on the drawing, and perhaps even do a cardboard mock up.
I say this - because the access to the "intake trough" ( forgive me BeAn - I am not sure what to call it if other than an overflow) IS tight - should you need to remove anything.
Just a thought ....( I only get one thought every 3 to 4 months <G>)
T

 

[dzhuo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14596639#post14596639 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BeanAnimal
This is all clearly explained here and in the long thread and at my website. You may want to spend a little more time looking at oveflows and understanding how they work before you decide on what suits your setup best

Thx Bean! One last question, is there a way to dial down the capacity with your design? My tank is 150g 3 1.5 bulkhead, with the primary drain in full normal operation, it's going to have a very high capacity, do you think there is a way to dial this down a little if I don't want that much overflow through the sump?

 

[brackishdude]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14595943#post14595943 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by norgemorir
I would appreciate your input or any others who can tell me if this plan has merit. I've seen the topic mentioned and a few photos of versions but due to my future confines I wanted to propose this setup.

Here for speed of getting something together, i put 22" length.

Thanks, Matt

You've seen my tank in the calfo thread!

Each box has two stockman variants of the durso, and I never have gotten it as quiet as I want.

If I were to do it again, I would do as you have drawn with a single outside box rather than two, or at least put a third hole in each of the boxes to allow use of Bean's design.

Make the box as long as you can and add an extra hole to the back of the tank if you can.

Make sure that at only 5" tall your fittings will fit . I had to get creative, but then I have glass lids on mine with a 1/4" tee fitting in a hole drilled into the lid to further muffle the sound (makes the whole boox a durso, kinda, except you don't really limit the air flow).

 

[NVReefer]

bean,
quick question, my display tank is going to be about 6ft higher (top) than the sump which will be located in the garage area. question is, the sump is going to be 7 to 8ft over (to the side) from the display, do you think there will be a problem with the horizontal run of the system when using your draining method?
vertical drop from tank overflow would be about 4ft then horizontal to sump about 7ft then 1ft into top of sump.

thanks again.

 

[mkarston]

So what is the though on using a “U” trap? Someone suggested it earlier in this thread, but for me I am not sure I will be able to do a “beanAnimal siphon” drain. (I might have to stick with a durso given my situation). I would use a trap just because I don’t have much room, and would need to drop the drain pipe down past the top of my sump, and then back up over into the sump.
Would this be a big issue? Anyone using a trap?

 

[NVReefer]

bean,
making last minute design changes, and have another question, i can't edit my above post, so here it is......

drains 1in, (3) in middle as per original, but i am thinking of running my 3/4in returns slightly higher than the drains on each side and run through the bottom of overflow coast 2 coast with a 90 then terminate with ???
thoughts from you or anyone else about the returns run through the overflow. any pics would be great.
if it sounds good, is it wiser to run through bottom or straight out the front of the overflow.

i am trying to avoid the over the top return lines.

sorry for so many questions, but i am trying to get it right from the start.
thanks

 

[Falcn]

My build

My build

Thought I'd show you my build of this style overflow. In the UK we don't get sanitary T, so I used a 45 and a 45 T to smooth the flow. It stands off the tank a little further, so I placed the overflow at one end of the tank.

The only problem I've encounted is cavitation and therefore noise introduced by the valve halfway down the pipe. I'v now added a second valve at the bottom and opened the mid point valve fully. Now works silently.

The overflow is almost coast to coast, but chamfered to avoid the front glass.

 

[dzhuo]

what's the drain capacity you guys have? i have always told to shot for 3 to 5x of the tank volume in the sump. a single siphon will have ~2000gph or so (?), that seems a lot of flow through the sump. are any of you guys concern about the high turn around? or do you find a way to dial the flow down a bit any yet still make it silent? am i wrong to think that if the return pump is not powerful enough, the siphon will not be able to form because there won't be enough water in the overflow box?