Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

gph, is this good?

gph, is this good?

OK, I think I see the problem. First of all, a 1260 at 10' head is only pushing about 100gph max. Next, assuming you are using 1.5" drain lines, the siphon alone would handle over 8000gph. Although the system has a large working range, I think you are outside that range with the combination of pump, head height, and pipe size.

Options:

1) increase flow back into tank by using a more powerful pump.
2) decrease drain pipe size to 1"
3)Move the valve on the siphon line to about a foot or 2 above the sump.BTW, the valves on the other 2 drain lines are not needed. There will never be a reason to close those valves and therefore they should always remain 100% open.

HTH


Is 130gph a good flow rate for a 75 gallon tank? I will have a power head but I was wondering if that's enough for the pump part?
 
Is 130gph a good flow rate for a 75 gallon tank? I will have a power head but I was wondering if that's enough for the pump part?

i would aim for somewhere between 300-500gph through the sump.

Keep in mind that with the 1260 at about 3' head would be about 300gph+. The head height is the vertical distance from the outlet of the pump to the highest part of the return. Elbows also add head pressure but it is minimal. If it's in the budget, I'd get a 1262 and keep the 1260 as a backup or to feed a reactor or two (carbon & gfo).
 
Quick question. When drilling the holes for the BeanAnimal overflow and using 1" bulkheads should I be using a 2" holesaw or a 1 3/4"?

Thanks
 
My apologies if this topic has already been addressed. I know it was recently alluded to, but I didn't see an in-depth discussion.

So my tank was designed and built nearly 3 years ago. It's been sitting empty in my house and I'm only now beginning the process of actually getting it ready to use. It has a Calfo-style external overflow and when I designed it, I planned on using vertical standpipes. Having learned about this method, I have changed my mind and plan on integrating it into my system. That said, the overflow wasn't properly designed for this, but I think it will function well.

My design incorporates dual external waveboxes which flank the overflow. I may have missed it but I haven't seen anything definitive claiming that this system will function well with inconsistent water flow into the overflow box. Here are some pictures of my overflow and parts to make the BeanAnimal overflow system.

This first photo shows the parts inside the overflow box, looking from the inside of the tank. The far left will be the siphon drain (1.5"), the middle is the emergency overflow (2"), and the right is the drain with the airline tubing (2"). You may be able to tell that there's a 4th bulkhead in the overflow box that I initially intended to function as some kind of return in the future, but I'll just have to cap that one off permanently because the plumbing parts obstruct it from ever being useful. You can also see the round strainers outside the overflow box, and those are the entry/exit points for the external waveboxes.

DSCN3179.jpg


Here's an overhead shot looking down into the overflow box just to show how I have the parts arranged. Again, nothing is fixed in place or hard plumbed yet (obviously).

DSCN3178.jpg


And finally, here's where the pipes will drain straight down into the sump.

DSCN3180.jpg


And finally, here is my question: Will this overflow system function well with the waveboxes, considering that the flow into the overflow box will not be steady?
 
As a follow-up question, what are people using to create the hole in the end cap in which the J-G fitting is screwed, is it just a regular thread tapper? I'm having a heck of a time finding one. And are you placing a plastic nut on the underside? Thanks in advance.
 
Double sump (trouble?)

Double sump (trouble?)

BeanAnimal - Thank you so much for sharing your engineering skill and knowledge and being so patient with all of us who are learning and clueless. :)

Note there are two sumps on different levels... The only reason for the first one is to provide the ability for the BeanAnimal silent/fail-safe drain... Of course, the problem is that I'm dependent on that first sump always siphoning down to the lower sump. (Yes, the lower sump is tall enough to catch the overflow with all pumps off).

So that's my question: as drawn, do you see any reason why the siphon flow from the first to the second sump wouldn't kick in (apart from obstruction)?

Screenshot2011-09-26at115025AM.png
 
BeanAnimal - Thank you so much for sharing your engineering skill and knowledge and being so patient with all of us who are learning and clueless. :)

Note there are two sumps on different levels... The only reason for the first one is to provide the ability for the BeanAnimal silent/fail-safe drain... Of course, the problem is that I'm dependent on that first sump always siphoning down to the lower sump. (Yes, the lower sump is tall enough to catch the overflow with all pumps off).

So that's my question: as drawn, do you see any reason why the siphon flow from the first to the second sump wouldn't kick in (apart from obstruction)?

Screenshot2011-09-26at115025AM.png

Why do you need the first sump?

The drain will work with a remote sump if planned properly.
 
fishman - you are correct, there's not much head pressure. drain from first sump sits only 1 or 2 feet above the second sump.

barfly - i tried it without the first sump. siphon channel could NOT reliably clear the pipe of air.

everyone - help!
 
barfly - my understanding is that the valve's purpose is to adjust the flow rate of the siphon and shift a small amount of variable flow to the open channel. turns out the siphon doesn't kick in, even when there is no valve in place. (i understand i could manually actuate the valve and try to let water build up pressure behind it, but the failsafe aspect of this system is predicated on the siphon kicking in unattended.)
 
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barfly - my understanding is that the valve's purpose is to adjust the flow rate of the siphon and shift a small amount of variable flow to the open channel. turns out the siphon doesn't kick in, even when there is no valve in place. (i understand i could manually actuate the valve and try to let water build up pressure behind it, but the failsafe aspect of this system is predicated on the siphon kicking in unattended.)

If you have the valve at the exit of the tank, the siphon will not kick in because of the sump location being so far away. I still say only 1 sump is needed and put the valve near the the end.
 
i should be more specific - in order to do it without the first sump, i had to sum the 3 pipes and that's what i believe to be the issue - regardless of the siphon it was not quiet...

happy to dump the first sump. in fact i'm trying yet another idea now... will report. curious to hear from beananimal if he recommends using the dual sumps or trying to make it work with one. and if one, how he recommends plumbing the three down to one (or two) with silent reliable operation. (or if the system can't really accomodate this distance from the sump.)
 
barfly - i built it first without the first sump. even with no valve, the siphon would not start.

The valve IS needed. Trying it without the valve would only make it harder to start the siphon. It seems you are not understanding the principle of how this system works. Assuming the rest of your system is set up correctly, If you do what I recommended you should have a properly working drain.
 
i should be more specific - in order to do it without the first sump, i had to sum the 3 pipes and that's what i believe to be the issue - regardless of the siphon it was not quiet...

happy to dump the first sump. in fact i'm trying yet another idea now... will report. curious to hear from beananimal if he recommends using the dual sumps or trying to make it work with one. and if one, how he recommends plumbing the three down to one (or two) with silent reliable operation. (or if the system can't really accomodate this distance from the sump.)
 
Barfly - You're correct, the only thing I know for sure is that I *don't* know what I'm doing. :) Always happy to be wrong and learn from you all.

My understanding is that the valve on the siphon is used to stave off some of the flow so that the open channel takes a variable amount. Can you explain what I'm misunderstanding about the function/purpose of the valve?
 
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Barfly - You're correct, the only thing I know for sure is that I *don't* know what I'm doing. :) Always happy to be wrong and learn from you all.

My understanding is that the valve on the siphon is used to stave off some of the flow so that the open channel takes a variable amount. Can you explain what I'm misunderstanding about the function/purpose of the valve?

The valve actually serves 2 purposes. First it has to be adjusted in order for the siphon to kick in and second to adjust the drain to that a small amount flows through the open channel. This allows for the system to stay stable through minor fluctuations in flow.

Ideally, you do not want to combine the pipes and by doing so you lose the fail safe feature, which imo is important, especially when running a siphon.
 
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