Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[Barfly]

No this is for a new build. 75 gallon, plus 40 gallon sump. and I think I'm going to be doing a mixed reef tank.

OK, just one more question and I'll be able to give you some recommendations that will solve the issues you are having.

I need to know the Head Height of the returns and drains. I know you have indicated that it was about 10', but after reading your other thread I'm not sure if you meant that 10' was the total length of the pipe you used.

In other words, What is the vertical distance from the running waterline in the sump to the top of the tank?

 

[all4fire39]

vertical distance is 2 1/2 feet horizontal is 7feet. sump area has 3 feet horizontal then it goes up 2 1/2 feet then back across the tank horizontal 4feet. that's just the return pipe, if you are wondering about the drain pipes, that is 2feet from the top of the tank to the 45 elbows and its about another foot 1/2 to the sump from the 45 elbows. I hope that made since to you.

 

[evilpsych]

Beananimal Overflow Tuning

Beananimal Overflow Tuning

To respond to the guy with the restarting problem.. do you have a good seal at the top of your siphon tube cap? if you don't it will cause problems causing it to act more like a regular overflow. I've left the overflow off my current build (75g w/ 29g sump pictured mid-build) while testing the overflow and getting used to the system's quirks/tuning etc. I've been running all sorts of situations, too much siphon, not enough etc, just in case to make sure the entire system is perfect. I'm running a 560gph pump with only 3' of head.. if you've got low head issues (10'=100gph with your pump??) the siphon will be slowwwww to restart.

My siphon has never restarted until the water has been allllmost to the top of the emergency overflow.. this means the 2ndary is flowing full bore and not keeping up (it's not drilled yet to act as a siphon - testing remember...)..
after about 2-3 nervous minutes, the siphon gets a rolling. I'm certain if i had the 2ndary drilled with the hose it would keep up the second the siphon tube is covered. I'm also fairly certain that when the emergency overflow is topped, (after the overflow is installed i'm sure this will happen) it will keep up while the primary siphon gets restarted and the whole system equalizes down to baseline..

I have always had small bubbles in my siphon line. tons when restarting (and running) too.

I've had this running at stasis (like almost everyone else in here) just fine.. i tune it by setting the siphon to be almost 100% of what the pump can provide, letting the secondary handle the 1-3 gph extra.. ensures (at least to me) that the siphon will rarely lose prime.

A lot of people in here turn off their pumps during feeding, which causes the siphon to lose prime. If you're brave, and youve' got your sweet spot set or marked with a marker, you can close the valve 100% while feeding, then after you restart your pump open it back to your preset mark. This procedure has worked every time for me so far and causes the siphon to never have restart issues..

someone will probably point out the flaws here.. but this thread is thousands of posts already and there's not been a detailed example of how some have their system tuned?

 

[Barfly]

vertical distance is 2 1/2 feet horizontal is 7feet. sump area has 3 feet horizontal then it goes up 2 1/2 feet then back across the tank horizontal 4feet. that's just the return pipe, if you are wondering about the drain pipes, that is 2feet from the top of the tank to the 45 elbows and its about another foot 1/2 to the sump from the 45 elbows. I hope that made since to you.

OK, that makes a big difference. Here is what I would try first. Reduce the siphon pipe size down to 1". I think that the flow is just too low to get the siphon started in a 1.5" pipe. That in itself might solve the problem you are having. You can also try and upgrade to an eheim 1262 for a little more flow.

Before doing that, You can also try and close the valve on the siphon drain. I would guess maybe about 25% open or even less and this may also solve the issues you are having. As the previous poster mentioned, make sure all your drain connections are air tight.

 

[all4fire39]

do you think should put the ball valve where the other ones are or put it down by the sump?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Downsizing the plumbing is not likely needed, simply place the (a) adjustment valve at the end of the standpipe, near the sump.

The extremely low flow is what is causing part of your problem.

 

[all4fire39]

I had already cut the valve off how much flow can 1 inch pipe handle at a full siphon? and bean i really love your system. I just wish I could get it to work for me and I'm sure I will, It has just been a long hard road for me to get it to.

 

[TheFishMan65]

It will depend on height from where it enters to exits. If you go to beananimal.com he has a program that can calculate it.

 

[BeanAnimal]

There is a basic flow caclulator on this page:

http://beananimal.com/articles/hydraulics-for-the-aquarist.aspx

 

[rayn]

all4fire, I must say thanks. In a effort to help you I realized my problem in running this system. I have had it for a year now and have almost always played with it, as it wasn't set and forget. Going back and reading this thread and beananimals web page I realized that my air line was outside the overflow rather then in. D'OH!!!

I really hope you get yours figured out as this system is a dream and eerily quite in a world of noisy overflows.

 

[Barfly]

I had already cut the valve off how much flow can 1 inch pipe handle at a full siphon? and bean i really love your system. I just wish I could get it to work for me and I'm sure I will, It has just been a long hard road for me to get it to.

I agree with Bean that the issues are being caused by the extremely low flow. A 1" pipe at only 2' head will handle over 1500gph.

 

[all4fire39]

Thank you guys so much! (barfly) John you more than any other for have the patients to work with me and help me figure this out. By reducing the size which i don't think is that big of a deal made it work with Bean also having me put the ball valve at the end of the sump works great! Ryan your welcome even tho I didn't get to really help you out much. As for every one else out there time and patients is key in this hobby as i learned first hand yet again. thank you guys so much for your help and the best of luck to all your tanks thanks thank thanks!


One happy reefer

 

[crossleymarko]

so as ive said before, i have a 145 gal ply tank. and 55 gal sump... and a pump hailea 500ltrs hr...

what would be the recomended bulkhead size...

here in uk we have 21.5mm not 25mm (1")

 

[crossleymarko]

i started another thread asking this as i thought this one was closed, and bean animal pointed me in the right direction, thanks

the parts list bean has put on there states a 1" (25mm) bulkhead fitting, here in the uk we can only get 21.5mm overflow bulkheads. converted to 32mm (1 1/4") as bean has done. well he has used 1.5" (40mm) or should i just go with 1 1/4" or 1.1/2" straight through.

also bean has said to include details of my pump for my 140 gal play tank,
it is hailea hx6840 5000 ltrs hr (1099 uk gal roughly 1300 gal us) from top of pipes to top of 55 gal sump will be 5ft.

hope this helps

here was a post i didnt really get any info for...
thanks

 

[Barfly]

so as ive said before, i have a 145 gal ply tank. and 55 gal sump... and a pump hailea 500ltrs hr...

what would be the recomended bulkhead size...

here in uk we have 21.5mm not 25mm (1")

The difference between 21.5mm and 25mm is minimal so with the proposed flow, you should be fine with 21.5mm bulkheads. You may even want to use the 21.5mm for the siphon and the next larger size for the open and emergency channels.

HTH

 

[crossleymarko]

correct me here. if full siphon is 1" say and overflow and partial is 1.5"... wont the full siphon struggle to take flow as the other channels are taking too much???

mmm maybe thinking too hard

 

[Barfly]

correct me here. if full siphon is 1" say and overflow and partial is 1.5"... wont the full siphon struggle to take flow as the other channels are taking too much???

mmm maybe thinking too hard

No need to worry about that, but I usually recommend the siphon drain be slightly lower than the open channel. Very little water should actually flow down the open channel.

 

[NauticusVa]

Thank you

Thank you

Just a quick thankyou for this entire post. I had managed to completely confuse and befuddle myself trying to figure out how to set the 75 gallon tank up. It is not drilled and i was trying to figure the layout out. After reading from PAGE 1 through the final page I don't think I will have any questions starting the build( which begins tomorrow).

Thank you and all the others who have contributed to the post.

 

[bruce 1]

I would go with 1.5" for the drain lines and bulkheads. As for the size of the overflow box, I would say at a minimum 20"L x 6"W x 7"H. Once you figure out the type of bulkheads and the size of the holes that need to be drilled, you can find out the absolute minimum dimensions needed.

One more question. Would I be better off going with the overflow 30 inches wide? (some one has told me from another forum that 20 inches is not wide enough? ) They are fixing to start the build, and need to know. Thanks Bruce

 

[Barfly]

One more question. Would I be better off going with the overflow 30 inches wide? (some one has told me from another forum that 20 inches is not wide enough? ) They are fixing to start the build, and need to know. Thanks Bruce

The wider the better. Wider = more efficient surface skimming.