Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

No there just sitting in there nothing permanet yet....sorry about that...hope no one gets confused by that....thanks for bringing it up.......while I'm here I had another question for anyone who can answer.....does it make a difference if there is teeth in the elbows or no on the pickups for the drains????? I see some do some don't....:(
 
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If you put slits or teeth on the intakes, they have to at least = the cross sectional area of the pipe itself. A safe bet would be 1.5 times the area. Teeth cause turbulance nad resistance to flow, you don't want them to be the bottleneck or prevent the siphon from starting. You also don't want small debris reducing the overall capacity.
 
That is up to you :)

I do not have slits on my operational system. I would rather critters that do get sucked into the overflow be able to pass to the sump instead of getting stuck against the slits.
 
Got cha....thanks bean....I was thinking the same thing...:) how about the height recommendation between the siphon and the others like someone just asked before me...I didn't even think about it untill someone brought it up here and on another forum????? Should the siphon be like a 1/2" below the the next drain????or more???? I won't bother you no more after this....well maybe in a month when I fire it up if I can't get it dialed lol...:(
 
Placing the siphon standpipe lower than the open channel standpipe forces it to be exposed to a slighty greater head than the open channel and also allows it to begin "kick in" before the open channel accepts any flow.

Water will follow paths of lesser resistance. If the open channel offers less resistance to flow than the siphon, then the siphon will not kick in. The design works as illustrated on my website and in the begining of this thread IF THE PLANS ARE FOLLOWED as outlined. People have changed the plans to fit their needs and some have had trouble getting the siphon to purge the air quickly. This is usually due to the outflow of the siphon standpipe being submerged too deeply in the sump, or the siphon standpipe weir beign slightly lower than the open channel weir. The easy fix is to move the open channel up 1/2" or so. If you had the room, you could move it up 6" and it will still perform its function. At 6" of head on the siphon, the valve would simply have to be dialed back a bit more to compensate for the flow added by that additional head (and thus allow the water to rise to the open channel weir).

Bean
 
Let me see if I can clarify for those who are still confused...

Think of a hydroelectric dam. The dam has a fixed water height (HEAD) against it. There are passages through the core of the dam that allow a fixes amount of water to flow to the electric turbines. However, the lake (resevoir) behind the damn is constantly being replinished by the streams rivers and runoff that flow into the backwaters feeding the lake. If the water filling the lake does not equal or exceede the amount of water flowing through the turnbines, then the water level in the lake drops and the turbines run dry. On the other hand of more water flows into the lake than the turbines can handle then the damn will overlfow. How do we keep the dam from overflowing? We create a spillway to allow the excess water to find its way downstream past the dam. Many dams also have a dry emergency spillway that is designed to handle catastrophic flood waters that are unexpected. You have heard the term "open the flood gates"... The "flood gates" allow water to be dumped to the emergency spillway in the event the dam is subjected to dangerous head heights.

You can compare this setup to the dam. We have a siphon standpipe that is always submerged (like the turbine intakes) and we have an open channel (like the dam's spillway). We also have an emergency standpipe (like the dam's emergency spillway or flood gate system).

Hope that helps a bit.
 
Bean, et al - I have searched this thread and still don't find the answer - so I'm going to ask. Please direct me to the already posted answer if there is one!

I want to use this method but place the standpipes IN the overflow, attached to bulkheads in the bottom of the tank - which are already there, so it is what it is. I am imagining that this can be done if I attach the valves outside the tank. Any reason this won't work?
 
Bean,

I am setting up a 280g with the same overflow and i had a question about running my skimmer off of the overflow. I will have 2 1.5" bulkheads one as the main and the other as the secondary and a 2" as the emergency. I want to run my Orca 200 skimmer off of the drain and it will need around 400-500 gallons an hour. Do you have any ideas on which line i should run it off of?

I was figuring to have the valve on the main and then have 2 additional valves near the output one for the skimmer and the leftover water going to the sump does that sound good or should i try and use the secondary to feed the skimmer? The return pump is a single Reeflo Dart pump so i am estimating between 1500-2500 through the drains.

Thanks
Jason
 
Jason,

What size return pump? The "main" drain is the siphon standpipe. It will handle 80% to 95% of the flow. It is a siphon so may, or may not play nice with the skimmer stability.
 
The return pump is a Reeflo Dart, I am figuring around 2000gph. Would i be able to cut the flow back a little on the main drain to allow a little extra water to go through the secondary to feed the skimmer? I originally thought that the siphon effect would help the skimmer b/c it would be a constant flow vs the changing flow with air in the line. I wanted to check to see what your thought was.

Thanks,
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15173708#post15173708 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lowredranger
The return pump is a Reeflo Dart, I am figuring around 2000gph.
Click to expand...

Low - you better double check on that pump. My Dart is rated 3600gph with 12' shut off head. Check HERE to be sure.
 
yes flow rate at 7ft which is what i figured was around 2500gph and i was going to have a couple of reactors running off of it so i figured anywhere between 2000 - 2500gph through the overflows.
 
Well..just wanted to show off my implementation of the famous Beananimal silent/failsafe overflow. I spent today filling and leak testing my 75 and after getting the tank leveled correctly (well, the stand actually)...the system worked flawlessly..it is SO quiet, and I even tested the "failsafe" by killing the primary overflow (opened the cap on the top)...as soon as the tank filled up to the top of the upright elbow, it immediately drained down and started the primary siphon again...awesome, awesome, awesome! Here are some pictures...sorry they are kinda crappy...had to take with my phones camera (which sucks) because someone stole my JVC digital camcorder out of my Jeep the other day (my stupid for leaving it in there, but its just messed up what some people will do)...anyway

Left side
176257overflow3.jpg


Right side
176257overflow2.jpg


Front
176257overflow1.jpg


My tank is 48" wide...my glass overflow box is 36" wide centered...I have a Mag 18 pushing flow up about 4' of head to split returns...I also T off my return for a fuge and future manifold for reactors (which are currently just capped off)
 
Hey Bean i got two questions for you

First question is i have a tank with two 1" and one 1 1/2" bulk heads, should i use 1 1/2" piping on all three?

Second question is which one should be the siphon, i was thinking of using the 1 1/2 for emergency drain.
 
how high and wide and long should the overflow be, what size bulkheads holes? sump is in stand below tank. return line hole are not shown yet and could use ideas there too. wanted no holes in tank flow in tank will be vortech.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15208387#post15208387 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by searey
how high and wide and long should the overflow be, what size bulkheads holes? sump is in stand below tank. return line hole are not shown yet and could use ideas there too. wanted no holes in tank flow in tank will be vortech.
Click to expand...
The wider your overflow the more efficient surface skimming you will have...alot of people use a coast-to-coast overflow across the entire back of the tank which maximizes the skimming on their system. My tank is 48" wide but I decided to go with just a 36" wide (centered) overflow which still provides me with significant surface skimming, just not the best I could possibly achieve if I went coast-to-coast...I made my decision based on two criteria: 1 - I didn't want to see glass siliconed on the side of my tank (if you have an inwall tank this is probably not a big deal) and 2 - I wanted to have some room for returns over the back of each corner so going 36" left me 6" of clearance on each side for my return plumbing.

The width and depth of the overflow can also vary. For my system, 1 1/2" plumbing was just too large..with the size of your tank, the 1 1/2" plumbing will be just fine. I used 1" and was able to get away with a 4"W x 4"D overflow box...you will probably want at least a 5"W x 5"D overflow box to accomodate the 1 1/2" plumbing.

From my experience, the most difficult thing to plan for was exactly where to drill my tank and to get my overflow box positioned exactly where it needed to be in relation to my bulkheads so there was enough clearance between the bottom of my overflow box and the bottom of the 90 degree elbows sitting in there...oh and then making absolutely certain that the overflow box was leveled with the tank..maybe this is easier for others, but for me it was the measure 3 times, stand back, measure again, stand back and then finally proceed method :)
 
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