Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[w3ish3ng]

Guys,

will this idea of mine works?

2x RD3 230 watts Return Pump (rated at 5125 gallons/hr) which after deducting head loss should run around 4332 gallon each.

both pumps will be use alternatively (1 at full power, another at min power) to create a gyre movement in a 200 gallon tank.

lets say for 5 mins every hour, both pump will be run at full power to stir up the tank with apex disconnecting the auto top up, will the bean system be able to handle this additional water level in the main tank by utilizing the open discharge and free discharge?

im planning to use a 2 inch bulkhead for the submerged discharge, 2.5inch for the open and free discharge.

 

[sleepydoc]

Well, I'm pretty sure the current 1" return is not drilled at the same horizontal level as the existing 2 x 1 1/2" bulkheads. Unless I'm missing something, I need another at the same level?

Not necessarily. The standard design is as such, but it depends on how you have the drains set up. Particularly with the dry emergency, the only thing the matters is where the top is.

I was thinking 1 1/2" so that everything would be uniform, and match the existing two?

1.5" is overkill for that size tank. I have a 120 with 1" bulkheads, flowing about 1100 - 1200 gph and am not even approaching the capacity of the system.

For the return, I was thinking I could put one of those black knobbly pipes (is there a proper name for those?!) on it and direct it over the top of the overflow? Having 2 pieces of glass for the overflow is very appealing...

I assume you're talking about loc-line? You could do that, but that will cause significant head loss and kill your flow. It would definitely make a 1.5" bulkhead pointless.

If you're dead set against having the return come over the top, your options are either cut the overflow short and have a 3-sided box and having the return come in at the end, using loc line like you said, Using standard plumbing elbows (in-up-over-down,) coming in on the side of the tank, or coming in under the overflow. If you do the last option, you need to have the pipe come up so the opening is near the surface to minimize the amount of back siphon in case of a power failure.

As I said before, up and over the top is really the easiest option.

 

[sleepydoc]

Guys,

will this idea of mine works?

2x RD3 230 watts Return Pump (rated at 5125 gallons/hr) which after deducting head loss should run around 4332 gallon each.

both pumps will be use alternatively (1 at full power, another at min power) to create a gyre movement in a 200 gallon tank.

lets say for 5 mins every hour, both pump will be run at full power to stir up the tank with apex disconnecting the auto top up, will the bean system be able to handle this additional water level in the main tank by utilizing the open discharge and free discharge?

im planning to use a 2 inch bulkhead for the submerged discharge, 2.5inch for the open and free discharge.

This is off topic for this thread - please post it as a new thread.

 

[sleepydoc]

I will be tight. Really depends on whether or not the pipes need to be turned down or can just be open on the top?

The bottom is tempered, but already drilled. Thanks for the advice on spacing from the edge of the tank. I didn't know that. I'll need to double check to see if there is enough space.

Wondering if it going to be easier to go with Herbie plus a float switch to the return pump as the "emergency"?

Why the float switch? In general, float switches aren't designed to control pumps unless it's through a controller like an Apex.

 

[treedog5]

So this is my current plumbing situation (see pic), I want to add a emergency drain without having to drill another hole. Can I turn my current return into a emergency drain and just run a new line over the top as my return? If so, what would be the best way to accomplish this?

 

[w3ish3ng]

This is off topic for this thread - please post it as a new thread.

How is this off topic when I'm asking on the bean animal siphon ability?

 

[rickztahone]

I just wanted to say thank you for all the help with the BA setup and answering my questions. This last weekend I took the plunge and made the cut and welds:

 

[sleepydoc]

How is this off topic when I'm asking on the bean animal siphon ability?

Sorry - missed the bean part when I skimmed thorough your post.

I don't know the flow capacities of 2 & 2.5" plumbing off hand, but in general, I'd say yes, it should be able to handle the flow. It won't be silent during these periods, however. What you really want to do is make sure that the emergency drain can handle all 4000+ GPH

 

[sleepydoc]

So this is my current plumbing situation (see pic), I want to add a emergency drain without having to drill another hole. Can I turn my current return into a emergency drain and just run a new line over the top as my return? If so, what would be the best way to accomplish this?

Yes, you can do that, but you need 3 lines to run a bean animal system. Not sure what your questin is on how to do it - just get some more fittings and run the plumbing up and over

 

[sleepydoc]

I just wanted to say thank you for all the help with the BA setup and answering my questions. This last weekend I took the plunge and made the cut and welds:

Looks nice - good job! Have you filled it and tested it out?

 

[redcoatd]

thanks for the response...

Not necessarily. The standard design is as such, but it depends on how you have the drains set up. Particularly with the dry emergency, the only thing the matters is where the top is.

Ah, so I could just use as an emergency, makes sense.

I assume you're talking about loc-line? You could do that, but that will cause significant head loss and kill your flow. It would definitely make a 1.5" bulkhead pointless.

Yes, that's them I'm actually only looking to only flow 5x (600gph) through the sump, and generate movement with powerheads. How can I figure out the head loss due to loc-line?

cheers

David

 

[sleepydoc]

thanks for the response...


Ah, so I could just use as an emergency, makes sense.


Yes, that's them I'm actually only looking to only flow 5x (600gph) through the sump, and generate movement with powerheads. How can I figure out the head loss due to loc-line?

cheers

David

Try googling it. It's hard, because there are a bunch of direct fittings and it really depends on your configuration. My guess is that ¾" loc line is something like ½" PVC with associated fittings, but that's purely a guess.

You can certainly compensate to a degree by using a bigge pump, but then you're paying for a bigger pump, more electricity and heating the tank more just to get the same flow. If you're not aiming for that much flow and the other things aren't an issue you can certainly do it.

 

[rickztahone]

Looks nice - good job! Have you filled it and tested it out?

It isn't wet yet. I still have to get some parts in. I just bought all the plumbing as well. I used a whole bunch of weld on #16 though just for piece of mind, but it will be tested outside still.

 

[redcoatd]

Ok. Still pretty new to all this - what size return would you recommend (no loc-line) to have as efficient a pump as possible for that flow?

Try googling it. It's hard, because there are a bunch of direct fittings and it really depends on your configuration. My guess is that ¾" loc line is something like ½" PVC with associated fittings, but that's purely a guess.

You can certainly compensate to a degree by using a bigge pump, but then you're paying for a bigger pump, more electricity and heating the tank more just to get the same flow. If you're not aiming for that much flow and the other things aren't an issue you can certainly do it.

 

[ezuc]

Why the float switch? In general, float switches aren't designed to control pumps unless it's through a controller like an Apex.

Basic idea would be to provide "emergency" shut off if both the other pipes were clogged. I'd connect through a controller.

 

[sleepydoc]

Ok. Still pretty new to all this - what size return would you recommend (no loc-line) to have as efficient a pump as possible for that flow?

What pump are you using and what kind of flow are you targeting? Pipe resistance is proportional to 1/r^4, so it goes down pretty quickly with increasing diameter and at some point you reach a point of diminishing returns. There's a head loss calculator on the main RC page that you can use to get estimates.

I'd post this in the main forum for feed back since it's rather a separate issue from the bean animal setup.

 

[rickztahone]

Quick question, I have my outer overflow box in place and I need to "tap" the open channel cap. I'm not sure how to go about doing this, does anyone have a parts list or something on how to do this?

 

[mmn]

I used a 1/4" MIP to JG type Quick Connect adapter and the appropriate tap into a PVC end cap. A little non-hardening thread sealant made for PVC. The line is a piece of 1/4" refrigerator ice-maker tubing.

 

[sleepydoc]

Quick question, I have my outer overflow box in place and I need to "tap" the open channel cap. I'm not sure how to go about doing this, does anyone have a parts list or something on how to do this?

I used one of these fittings and a ¼" NPT tap like one of these to cut the threads. NPT taps can be a bit hard to find. If you have a good hardware store, they may have one. Maybe Lowes/Home Depot. I found one at Menards locally.

If you don't want to actually tap threads, you could over-drill the hole and use silicone to hold it in place as well, but this wouldn't be as secure.

 

[rickztahone]

I used one of these fittings and a ¼" NPT tap like one of these to cut the threads. NPT taps can be a bit hard to find. If you have a good hardware store, they may have one. Maybe Lowes/Home Depot. I found one at Menards locally.

If you don't want to actually tap threads, you could over-drill the hole and use silicone to hold it in place as well, but this wouldn't be as secure.

Thanks for that info! I once drilled a DIY co2 reactor in the manner that you are suggesting. It never failed me. Thanks again.