Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[sleepydoc]

I'm looking at purchasing a new tank - 156g - that has some kind of Herbie system on it. It has a 1 1/2" bulkhead at each side of the back, 3" down from the top, and a single 1" return in the middle of the back.

It doesn't have an overflow box of any kind, so I'll plan on adding a glass coast to coast all the way along the back.

Hoping the pic attachment works.

Any suggestions on where to drill the 3rd 1 1/2" bulkhead?

Is there any problem with the return where it is?

cheers!

Why do you need a 3rd bulkhead, and why 1.5"? Easiest way to do the return is up over the top. That way you can make your overflow with two straight pieces of glass.

 

[mmn]

^! It's what I did. People think that return over the top is unsightly, but it actually sort of "disappears" - especially if you paint it.

 

[redcoatd]

Well, I'm pretty sure the current 1" return is not drilled at the same horizontal level as the existing 2 x 1 1/2" bulkheads. Unless I'm missing something, I need another at the same level?

I was thinking 1 1/2" so that everything would be uniform, and match the existing two?

For the return, I was thinking I could put one of those black knobbly pipes (is there a proper name for those?!) on it and direct it over the top of the overflow? Having 2 pieces of glass for the overflow is very appealing...

cheers!

David

Why do you need a 3rd bulkhead, and why 1.5"? Easiest way to do the return is up over the top. That way you can make your overflow with two straight pieces of glass.

 

[redcoatd]

Here's a side view...

 

[ezuc]

This configuration is more suited to a Herbie setup than a bean, but you could make it a bean if you drill for an emergency as you describe. Do you have room for all 3 pipes in your overflow? many corner overflows get pretty cramped.

Verify that the glass (both bottom and sides) is not tempered before you drill. Where were you planning on drilling? You need to allow at least one diameter distance between glass edges. The typical 1" bulkhead needs a 45mm diameter hole, so the edge of any hole you drill needs to be at least 45 mm from either the nearest hole, or the edge of the glass.

I will be tight. Really depends on whether or not the pipes need to be turned down or can just be open on the top?

The bottom is tempered, but already drilled. Thanks for the advice on spacing from the edge of the tank. I didn't know that. I'll need to double check to see if there is enough space.

Wondering if it going to be easier to go with Herbie plus a float switch to the return pump as the "emergency"?

 

[w3ish3ng]

Guys,

will this idea of mine works?

2x RD3 230 watts Return Pump (rated at 5125 gallons/hr) which after deducting head loss should run around 4332 gallon each.

both pumps will be use alternatively (1 at full power, another at min power) to create a gyre movement in a 200 gallon tank.

lets say for 5 mins every hour, both pump will be run at full power to stir up the tank with apex disconnecting the auto top up, will the bean system be able to handle this additional water level in the main tank by utilizing the open discharge and free discharge?

im planning to use a 2 inch bulkhead for the submerged discharge, 2.5inch for the open and free discharge.

 

[sleepydoc]

Well, I'm pretty sure the current 1" return is not drilled at the same horizontal level as the existing 2 x 1 1/2" bulkheads. Unless I'm missing something, I need another at the same level?

Not necessarily. The standard design is as such, but it depends on how you have the drains set up. Particularly with the dry emergency, the only thing the matters is where the top is.

I was thinking 1 1/2" so that everything would be uniform, and match the existing two?

1.5" is overkill for that size tank. I have a 120 with 1" bulkheads, flowing about 1100 - 1200 gph and am not even approaching the capacity of the system.

For the return, I was thinking I could put one of those black knobbly pipes (is there a proper name for those?!) on it and direct it over the top of the overflow? Having 2 pieces of glass for the overflow is very appealing...

I assume you're talking about loc-line? You could do that, but that will cause significant head loss and kill your flow. It would definitely make a 1.5" bulkhead pointless.

If you're dead set against having the return come over the top, your options are either cut the overflow short and have a 3-sided box and having the return come in at the end, using loc line like you said, Using standard plumbing elbows (in-up-over-down,) coming in on the side of the tank, or coming in under the overflow. If you do the last option, you need to have the pipe come up so the opening is near the surface to minimize the amount of back siphon in case of a power failure.

As I said before, up and over the top is really the easiest option.

 

[sleepydoc]

Guys,

will this idea of mine works?

2x RD3 230 watts Return Pump (rated at 5125 gallons/hr) which after deducting head loss should run around 4332 gallon each.

both pumps will be use alternatively (1 at full power, another at min power) to create a gyre movement in a 200 gallon tank.

lets say for 5 mins every hour, both pump will be run at full power to stir up the tank with apex disconnecting the auto top up, will the bean system be able to handle this additional water level in the main tank by utilizing the open discharge and free discharge?

im planning to use a 2 inch bulkhead for the submerged discharge, 2.5inch for the open and free discharge.

This is off topic for this thread - please post it as a new thread.

 

[sleepydoc]

I will be tight. Really depends on whether or not the pipes need to be turned down or can just be open on the top?

The bottom is tempered, but already drilled. Thanks for the advice on spacing from the edge of the tank. I didn't know that. I'll need to double check to see if there is enough space.

Wondering if it going to be easier to go with Herbie plus a float switch to the return pump as the "emergency"?

Why the float switch? In general, float switches aren't designed to control pumps unless it's through a controller like an Apex.

 

[treedog5]

So this is my current plumbing situation (see pic), I want to add a emergency drain without having to drill another hole. Can I turn my current return into a emergency drain and just run a new line over the top as my return? If so, what would be the best way to accomplish this?

 

[w3ish3ng]

This is off topic for this thread - please post it as a new thread.

How is this off topic when I'm asking on the bean animal siphon ability?

 

[rickztahone]

I just wanted to say thank you for all the help with the BA setup and answering my questions. This last weekend I took the plunge and made the cut and welds:

 

[sleepydoc]

How is this off topic when I'm asking on the bean animal siphon ability?

Sorry - missed the bean part when I skimmed thorough your post.

I don't know the flow capacities of 2 & 2.5" plumbing off hand, but in general, I'd say yes, it should be able to handle the flow. It won't be silent during these periods, however. What you really want to do is make sure that the emergency drain can handle all 4000+ GPH

 

[sleepydoc]

So this is my current plumbing situation (see pic), I want to add a emergency drain without having to drill another hole. Can I turn my current return into a emergency drain and just run a new line over the top as my return? If so, what would be the best way to accomplish this?

Yes, you can do that, but you need 3 lines to run a bean animal system. Not sure what your questin is on how to do it - just get some more fittings and run the plumbing up and over

 

[sleepydoc]

I just wanted to say thank you for all the help with the BA setup and answering my questions. This last weekend I took the plunge and made the cut and welds:

Looks nice - good job! Have you filled it and tested it out?

 

[redcoatd]

thanks for the response...

Not necessarily. The standard design is as such, but it depends on how you have the drains set up. Particularly with the dry emergency, the only thing the matters is where the top is.

Ah, so I could just use as an emergency, makes sense.

I assume you're talking about loc-line? You could do that, but that will cause significant head loss and kill your flow. It would definitely make a 1.5" bulkhead pointless.

Yes, that's them I'm actually only looking to only flow 5x (600gph) through the sump, and generate movement with powerheads. How can I figure out the head loss due to loc-line?

cheers

David

 

[sleepydoc]

thanks for the response...


Ah, so I could just use as an emergency, makes sense.


Yes, that's them I'm actually only looking to only flow 5x (600gph) through the sump, and generate movement with powerheads. How can I figure out the head loss due to loc-line?

cheers

David

Try googling it. It's hard, because there are a bunch of direct fittings and it really depends on your configuration. My guess is that ¾" loc line is something like ½" PVC with associated fittings, but that's purely a guess.

You can certainly compensate to a degree by using a bigge pump, but then you're paying for a bigger pump, more electricity and heating the tank more just to get the same flow. If you're not aiming for that much flow and the other things aren't an issue you can certainly do it.

 

[rickztahone]

Looks nice - good job! Have you filled it and tested it out?

It isn't wet yet. I still have to get some parts in. I just bought all the plumbing as well. I used a whole bunch of weld on #16 though just for piece of mind, but it will be tested outside still.

 

[redcoatd]

Ok. Still pretty new to all this - what size return would you recommend (no loc-line) to have as efficient a pump as possible for that flow?

Try googling it. It's hard, because there are a bunch of direct fittings and it really depends on your configuration. My guess is that ¾" loc line is something like ½" PVC with associated fittings, but that's purely a guess.

You can certainly compensate to a degree by using a bigge pump, but then you're paying for a bigger pump, more electricity and heating the tank more just to get the same flow. If you're not aiming for that much flow and the other things aren't an issue you can certainly do it.

 

[ezuc]

Why the float switch? In general, float switches aren't designed to control pumps unless it's through a controller like an Apex.

Basic idea would be to provide "emergency" shut off if both the other pipes were clogged. I'd connect through a controller.