Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

rlinusc said:
thank you sleepy,

Can i get one piece of clarification?

When you say below-




I bought diamond hole saw bits, and they come in sizes from 3/4, 1', 1 1/4, 1.5 etc, does this mean i need to find a different bit type of 1.65" in order to drill for a 1' bulkhead?

I understand the minimum distance between the holes and the rims looks at the diameter of the hole, is that what you mean in terms of calculating the minimum distances? You should use 1.65 instead of 1.5 for purposes of distance? or do I need to get a different drill bit sizes for my bulkheads?

I bought the tank and plan to drill the holes myself. As for a coast to coast overflow, i can't find anyones that would fit a 72" tank and the coast to make one seems to be exorbitant. I know that a longer overflow box means a better skimming capacity, but i figured 24' was pretty good. Should i go for longer?

for space saving, i think i am going to try for 1 1/4" bulkheads and standpipes.
Click to expand...

No you don't. The standard size hole cutter for 1" bulkheads is 1.75", for 1.25" your guess as good as mine, for 1.5" bulkheads is 2.375". Space saving thoughts will usually get you in trouble, so beware of having those thoughts. Generally, if you need the larger bulkheads, it is most likely you would use 1.5". A little harder to find a hole cutter for 1.25" but they are around. Unless you are targeting 2000gph or above, there is no need to use bulkheads larger than 1". 1.5" pipe on 1" bulkheads will get you to 2000gph with a 36" drop.
 
rlinusc said:
ah the. 1" bulkheads it is and using a drill bit for 1.75" hole then. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Best to get the BH first. Depending on what material it's made of there are different hole sizes. ABS and PVC Sch80 are common BH material but I've also seen PVC Sch40.

You might want to check out BRSs website for sizes they carry.

For my 120G tank I have all 1" plumbing. My return pump is rated at about 950 gph with an actual flow of between 500 and 600 gph. The siphon valve is about half open.
 
uncleof6 said:
They are no better or more heavy duty than any of the other thousand different makes and models out there....typical ABS bulkheads.
Click to expand...

I disagree. I once ordered the lifegard bulkheads and literally snapped the flange off 2 of the 1" bulkheads by hand tightening them. I said forget that and went to Hayward SCH 80. When I went to recently build my overflow box I called several places including lifegard. I wanted a lower profile bulkhead. They said they had switched from ABS to PVC to make them stronger. I ended up ordering several of the BRS ones instead, and the flange is thicker, the threads on the nut are deeper and more coarse. Lifegard may have changed them over the past 6 years, but back then they were not all equal.
 
The added strength of sch 80 is not physical strength really. I can snap a schedule 80 bulkhead just as easily as an ABS bulkhead. Most people don't understand the difference between finesse and brute force. Brute force will break either, and is totally unnecessary to get a good seal on ABS bulkheads.

The strength difference it in the pressure rating, which is unrelated to the "snapping" ease of the part. Also, it is not recommended to use threaded Sch 80 fittings together with Sch 20 fittings. It is a complete waste. For our purposes sch 80 is completely unnecessary.

I don't care really what folks want to use, but let's not stack the deck.
 
Hey all, I am going to do this overflow but had a few questions first. My tank is a 40G Breeder with a 28G NRS-30 sump. The head height is gonna be anywhere from 30ish inches + or - a few. Would 3/4" pvc work or should I use 1" to be safe? I dont know if 1" would be too much flow for my size tank. 2) The T used can it be a regular T? I am having a hard time finding the sanitary T originally used any smaller than 1.5". 3) What size return pump should I use? I was thinking of using the Eheim Compact 3000 or the Sicce Syncra Pro 800 or 1000gph if yall think those will be too little or too much let me know, I would really like to keep the pump below $150... Also for the drains should I use 2 45deg elbows or a 2 90s?
 
booth2010 said:
Hey all, I am going to do this overflow but had a few questions first. My tank is a 40G Breeder with a 28G NRS-30 sump. The head height is gonna be anywhere from 30ish inches + or - a few. Would 3/4" pvc work or should I use 1" to be safe? I dont know if 1" would be too much flow for my size tank. 2) The T used can it be a regular T? I am having a hard time finding the sanitary T originally used any smaller than 1.5". 3) What size return pump should I use? I was thinking of using the Eheim Compact 3000 or the Sicce Syncra Pro 800 or 1000gph if yall think those will be too little or too much let me know, I would really like to keep the pump below $150... Also for the drains should I use 2 45deg elbows or a 2 90s?
Click to expand...

Flow out of the tank, will always equal flow into the tank. Having more drain capacity than you have flow is far better than not having enough. 3/4" pipe is too small, and too easily plugged. 1" should be considered a minimum. As far as pumps go, you should be looking at the newer DC pumps rather than the old antiquated pumps you mentioned. Wanting to keep the price under $150, means you pay MORE long term, rather than paying a little more upfront in exchange for long term savings in energy cost. Use 45s not 90s.
 
uncleof6 said:
Flow out of the tank, will always equal flow into the tank. QUOTE]

I just did not want to have too much flow, if that is even possible lol. I know in the orignial post too little flow wont create a proper siphon and too much could create a dual siphon in the second drain, I guess getting a pump I could control the return on would be a good idea?
Click to expand...
 
Getting off topic for the thread, but check out this thread before purchasing a DC pump. They are turning out to be somewhat trouble prone. No clue if the 2nd generation is better or not, but there are newer AC pumps that are much more efficient and serve your needs as well.

+1 to uncle's comments on pipe size. Especially for the open channel. ¾" is pretty much useless for an open channel standpipe and won't give you much wiggle room to tune the system.
 
I don't really get the point of the DC pumps. Figure out how much flow you want and buy the pump that suits that flow range. Buying a larger pump and turning it down to where it falls out of its efficiency range is counter productive. You can't even use several of them on a set of closed loops to vary flow, because to my knowledge you can't hook them up to any controller, or even get the pumps to talk to each other. I really really don't see the point of running one on a skimmer.
 
Second Gen RLSS have a different controller that CAN be hooked up to a seperate controller via RJ45 connectors. The point really is why would you want to? Most of the stuff folks use 'controlled pumps' for is pretty useless applications. They don't accomplish anything of real value. These pumps are more applicable to the the very things you don't see the point of, when actually they are more important points than 'not externally controllable.' As far as a pump falling out of its efficiency range, care to share what the efficiency range of these pumps is? The pump is speed controllable. The watts consumed drops as the flow rate is decreased. I don't know what you are getting a, but I doubt it is a valid concern.

******************************************************************
On the hearsay badmouthing of DC pumps:

Most problems with these pumps some time ago, were blown out of proportion and included many false reports of problems, by folks that did not even own one of these pumps, and had never even seen one first hand. Some of it was due to a gripe concerning the UL listing. One pump failed, was under warranty, RLSS replaced the pump, and the end user demanded an out of line amount of money...along with the replacement pump.

I have been running the RLSS 1st Gen pumps, for darn near three years now with not a single issue. I have been running 2nd Gen RLSS pumps for a bit over a year now. I recommend them highly, but if you don't take care of it, and it fails, it is your fault, not the pumps or RLSS's. The bad reports are for the most part just repeating what some one else repeated, several years ago. They involve the 1st Gen pumps. The 2nd Gen pumps have been redesigned.

The bottom line is, if one had not run one of these pumps, they are not going to have any knowledge or information on these pumps, that does not fall into the category of hearsay.

Care to read something that is not hearsay?

http://www.beananimal.com/other/waveline-dc5000-variable-speed-dc-pump.aspx
 
I'll look into RLSS DC4000, can it be used internal/external or only an external pump? I will not have room for an external pump. Second, I am sure it is not a big deal but will using a regular 1" Tee be a big difference from the 1.5" Sanitary Tee BeanAnimal used? Im talking about the difference in the Tee not in size...
 
Maybe efficiency was the wrong word. I just mean, why buy a pump that cost more money and is physically larger when you are going to turn it down. I was told by several people that the MK II still didn't have controllability. I guess they were wrong. My purpose for ramping them up and down is to use several of them on a closed loop system, so I can turn them up and down opposite each other to give a more random flow, or to turn the gyre rotation several times a day. Maybe even turn them all up to 100% a few times a day to really churn things up. I had also heard that the newer models are reliable. Aquarium Specialty recently posted that they have had to warranty out 2/3s of the Mk I models because they burned up the controllers. They personally didn't have one that lasted more than 2 years. That might be a little more than hearsay. If the new ones are controllable, I'm probably going to get 2 of them!
 
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thejuggernaut said:
Maybe efficiency was the wrong word. I just mean, why buy a pump that cost more money and is physically larger when you are going to turn it down. I was told by several people that the MK II still didn't have controllability. I guess they were wrong. My purpose for ramping them up and down is to use several of them on a closed loop system, so I can turn them up and down opposite each other to give a more random flow, or to turn the gyre rotation several times a day. Maybe even turn them all up to 100% a few times a day to really churn things up. I had also heard that the newer models are reliable. Aquarium Specialty recently posted that they have had to warranty out 2/3s of the Mk I models because they burned up the controllers. They personally didn't have one that lasted more than 2 years. That might be a little more than hearsay. If the new ones are controllable, I'm probably going to get 2 of them!
Click to expand...

You are supposed to size the pump appropriately, for the system size. In most cases, the hobbyist choice of flow rate is the problem, not the available pump choices. The flow rates, are antiquated, and should be much higher, like for a 100 gallon tank, the flow rate should be up around 1000gph, not 500gph.

The problem with the controllers was due to overheating caused by abuse of the equipment. You cannot block the air cooling for the controller, or it will burn up. This was not a design flaw, it was totally user error. The pumps were repaired/parts sent, or replaced. The controllers were redesigned so the cooling fan is no longer there. I have been running gen Is for almost 3 years, and never a problem. So yes, the bad mouthing is hearsay. Bean has also been running gen Is for most of three years as well, and no problems with them that I am aware of. I have a couple Gen IIs running for a year or so, no problems yet. (Gen IIs were redesigned; the controller, volute, and impeller.)

The problem with most hearsay, is folks take it as fact, yet don't bother to trace it back to the origins, to get a better view of it, rather than the "misinterpretation" due to exaggeration, and telephone syndrome.
 
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