Skimmerless

You better start calling me Eric or I'll ban you from posting, Mdmslle. ;)
You are absolutely corrrect on the flow, and I am not sure just how much biofiltration live rock adds, especially if there are other substrates...I;m sure quite a bit, but its never been quantified, and I'm not sure how much is actually required to be "enough"
 
Well, there are those is the "Advanced Topics" forum who don't think you need any live rock at all... that a DSB is enough for biofiltration. I guess I'll see if that's true (when I set up my Fungia tank).

And I'm sorry, but Borneman is just such an uncommonly lovely German name. ;-)
 
Hmm... I don't know about that. Rock interupts flow a lot more than a layer of sand I think. Unless you're saying one could get the most flow with no rock or sand... lol
 
Absolutely right...and has more surface area for bacteial colonization, too. And if I want a bare glass tank with corals in it, I'll go to a fish store.
 
Hey Eric,

About ats filters. You run theese on your tanks right? Well I am a believer on ats systems, they truly seem to reduce nutriets to almost zero.

For example(dont ban me on this one) I had a 30 gallon tank with 12 fish in it, The entire back wall was covered with long strands of hair algae. The hair algae grew so fast the tang could not keep up with chowing it down.. But if I tested nitrates they were zero! No color change at all with the test kit. Now I test my bb 125 gallon with a skimmer and 15 fish and I have nitrates that are at 20-30ppm. The 30 gallon had no skimmer and just standard florecent lights(uri 40watt). And alot more fish for water volume. It was covered in pods everywhere and had no algae but hair algae on the back glass. It had a sump that added about 30 gallons more, so a 60gal total. But, i must say it really worked well with that tank, and I was careless. Everything whent well untill i crashed the tank with a piece of cement rock that i thought was cured.I didnt have any corals but it was supporting all those fish and now i cant even keep up with it! The tank had no corals although. So you may not be interested in my story.

From your experience with theese systems can you tell me anything about them(ats). And where can i get some starter algae again :D . I had thick long dark very dark green algae before, and i want the same again.
 
I did a search for ATS over all of RC and couldn't even find what ATS stands for... do you have a link?

Oh, nevermind... I forgot to set the time period back...
 
G-money said:
ATS = Algal Turf Scrubber

Yes, thank you! I just figured this out. And I find it really amusing... I didn't know that letting algae grow for the purpose of keeping nutrients low was actually a method with its own name. lol Is there also a term for raising your salinity by letting the water evaporate? Or for cooling the water by opening a window on a chilly night? ;)
 
sihaya said:
Is there also a term for raising your salinity by letting the water evaporate?
Yes, I beileve that is SMT (Salt Miser Technique)

Or for cooling the water by opening a window on a chilly night?
That would be ETCDTLOAC (Environmental Temperature Control Due To Lack of a Chiller).

:lol:
 
The longest thread is in this forum, under my name and just called ATS. I have been asked for the link dozens of times but "DOH", I dont know how do links from another thread. :rolleye1:
 
I use one on one tank that is my puffer tank (obviously a high nutrient tank) and use it for that very reason...and have not had either the problem with Ventricaria or cyano that I did prior to putting it on and aving just used a skimmer. In fact, no problem. You might want to contact Morgan Lidster at Inland Aquatics for starter screens - don't know what his current position is in terms of ATS - he was the only one licensed to sell them, Adey's brother screwed him, but he said not too long ago he was getting back into it again. But, of all people in the trade, he is the guy I run to with algae needs. What I did since my ATS was in the attic for years, was find bits of various turfs on rocks here and there, even from others tanks or stores, and then carefully glue or sew little patches onto the screen, and let them grow. The algae go througha succession, and without the nice started seeding Morgan had, my succession is still based largely on the rapid growing Derbesia-type greens, and I want the red astro-turf stuff that is so efficient and rarely needs scraping, but haven't gotten there yet. I found a good patch of it on some frag bases in one tank, but have not yet scraped it off and stuck it on the screen.
 
sihaya said:
Hmm... I don't know about that. Rock interupts flow a lot more than a layer of sand I think. Unless you're saying one could get the most flow with no rock or sand... lol

Sighs.
Hit and... a miss.

If I had any sand in my tank with the flow I have, I wouldnt have a sand bed, I'd have a sand storm.
 
I think it does depend on your circulation patterns as far as degree of "sand storm". I rarely see a tank with a Stream that doesn't have a big valley in the sand below the spot where the Stream hits the glass. It's definitely not impossible to have lots of flow with a sandbed, though. Eric can tell you that. ;)

If someone has a sandbed, they probably aren't as concerned with keeping things from settling on the bottom - which is something someone without a substrate would optimally try to avoid. With that, BBs "need" more flow in the lower portions of the tank to keep detritus as suspended as possible. Conversely, those with "functional" sandbeds want that settling because it feeds the critters in the sand. Therefore, they might not "need" as much flow. That's not to say they can't have it if they set it up properly...
 
Well, it does take a little skill to position everything so that the current brakes a little before it hits the sand... I'm not saying it's easy... but the rewards are sweet. ;)
 
If I had any sand in my tank with the flow I have, I wouldnt have a sand bed, I'd have a sand storm.

You'd be surprised. Waterflow can be pretty rapid over fine sediment without disturbing it. For example, there are plenty of creeks and such around my place that definitely have stronger waterflow than in most reef tanks (more than 12 in/s) yet have fine, muddy bottoms. Also, I've had tanks with fine sand beds, not all that much rock (so as not to disrupt waterflow) and had a tank turnover rate of 45 times/hr+ and the sand was not disturbed. Areas where fine sand settle in nature often have as much or more waterflow through them as compared to a lot of tanks.

That's just what the de-masculating bourgeoisie culture has been telling you. Personally, I think a little well earned arrogance is sexy.

Good lord :lol:

OK, how's this? I am the greatest aquarist on the face of the planet.

Goodness gracious. Yeah, but you're still the lowliest of God's creatures . . . a graduate student, hahaha ;)

Chris
 
MCsaxmaster said:
You'd be surprised. Waterflow can be pretty rapid over fine sediment without disturbing it. For example, there are plenty of creeks and such around my place that definitely have stronger waterflow than in most reef tanks (more than 12 in/s) yet have fine, muddy bottoms. Also, I've had tanks with fine sand beds, not all that much rock (so as not to disrupt waterflow) and had a tank turnover rate of 45 times/hr+ and the sand was not disturbed. Areas where fine sand settle in nature often have as much or more waterflow through them as compared to a lot of tanks.

You just want to argue about everything, don't you.

You think that sand and sediment isn't moving anywhere? You should take a course in hydrology and erosion.

Besides, it settles are areas of laminar flow.
 
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