So you got a new fish tank Newbie
- Thread starter WaterKeeper
- Start date
- Status
Hi all,
Some quick comments--
I'm not a fan of freshwater dips for new fish. It is much better to set them up in a proper quarantine tank than subject them to the shock of a FW dip IMO.
Most Aiptasia are translucent with a pinkish cast in the thicker parts. If you only have a couple then the boiling water or KW method of using a syringe to eliminate them is fine. I've heard mixed reviews on peppermint shrimp but you can try this method if the ammonia levels in your tank are near zero. Aip eating nudies are another, and proven, option.
I do not like using live fish to cycle a tank. However, if they made it this far they probably will be OK. The trick here is to cycle any new LR or LS in a separate container and not add it to the main tank until fully cycled. Cycling in the main tank is a sure way to kill those damsels.
Some quick comments--
I'm not a fan of freshwater dips for new fish. It is much better to set them up in a proper quarantine tank than subject them to the shock of a FW dip IMO.
Most Aiptasia are translucent with a pinkish cast in the thicker parts. If you only have a couple then the boiling water or KW method of using a syringe to eliminate them is fine. I've heard mixed reviews on peppermint shrimp but you can try this method if the ammonia levels in your tank are near zero. Aip eating nudies are another, and proven, option.
I do not like using live fish to cycle a tank. However, if they made it this far they probably will be OK. The trick here is to cycle any new LR or LS in a separate container and not add it to the main tank until fully cycled. Cycling in the main tank is a sure way to kill those damsels.
Mud Shrimp Moe
New member
Hey WaterKeeper, I wanted to add to the chorus of thanks for this amazing thread.
I'm a total newbie, having gotten the guts of my aquarium as a suprise Christmas present. If that's not the mark of a poseur, I don't know what is.
One thing that has become central to my mindset since jumping into this hobby is the ethical concern of caring for these animals that didn't ask to be captured and put in my glass box. What I mean by that is I think I have a responsibility to do my absolute best to give them a healthy and comfortable existence. That's why I appreciate your perspective on things like using livestock to cycle a tank or freshwater dips or whatever. You seem to value doing things naturally, slowly, and humanely. Thanks for that.
I'm a total newbie, having gotten the guts of my aquarium as a suprise Christmas present. If that's not the mark of a poseur, I don't know what is.
One thing that has become central to my mindset since jumping into this hobby is the ethical concern of caring for these animals that didn't ask to be captured and put in my glass box. What I mean by that is I think I have a responsibility to do my absolute best to give them a healthy and comfortable existence. That's why I appreciate your perspective on things like using livestock to cycle a tank or freshwater dips or whatever. You seem to value doing things naturally, slowly, and humanely. Thanks for that.
Mud Shrimp Moe
New member
silkchaos said:
Well, mine is from my wife. And she's enjoying the heck out of it while I'm doing all the work!
Man smart!
The woman is smarter!
Mud Shrimp Moe
New member
BTW, here's a question:
How can I be sure that these things on my rock that I assumed were fan worms (tube worms) aren't Aiptasia? I used Melev's "161 things by picture" thread and the two look pretty similar.
The things in my tank are white, about an inch long or less, and have a little fringey umbrella shaped thing at the top with an hole in the middle. There are dozens of them.
How can I be sure that these things on my rock that I assumed were fan worms (tube worms) aren't Aiptasia? I used Melev's "161 things by picture" thread and the two look pretty similar.
The things in my tank are white, about an inch long or less, and have a little fringey umbrella shaped thing at the top with an hole in the middle. There are dozens of them.
Mud Shrimp Moe
New member
BTW, here's a question:
How can I be sure that these things on my rock that I assumed were fan worms (tube worms) aren't Aiptasia? I used Melev's "161 things by picture" thread and the two look pretty similar.
The things in my tank are white, about an inch long or less, and have a little fringey umbrella shaped thing at the top with an hole in the middle. There are dozens of them.
How can I be sure that these things on my rock that I assumed were fan worms (tube worms) aren't Aiptasia? I used Melev's "161 things by picture" thread and the two look pretty similar.
The things in my tank are white, about an inch long or less, and have a little fringey umbrella shaped thing at the top with an hole in the middle. There are dozens of them.
Mud Shrimp Moe
New member
Thanks, Waterkeeper.
For the record, I have 2-4" of live sand and 130 lbs of fully cured live rock (bought from existing tank), a wet-dry sump and a protein skimmer. LS has been in three weeks and LR has been in two.
Tested Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and pH on Sunday (1/9/05) and they were
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
pH: 8.2
Can I get all cocky now and start calling myself "reefmaster" and stuff?
Or do I need to buy a little plastic diver thingie?
Thanks!
For the record, I have 2-4" of live sand and 130 lbs of fully cured live rock (bought from existing tank), a wet-dry sump and a protein skimmer. LS has been in three weeks and LR has been in two.
Tested Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and pH on Sunday (1/9/05) and they were
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
pH: 8.2
Can I get all cocky now and start calling myself "reefmaster" and stuff?
Or do I need to buy a little plastic diver thingie?
Thanks!
Hi Mud Shrimp,
[color= dark green]Sorry about yesterdays double post. My connection went down just as I hit the submit button and when I returned later on it appeared that my post had been lost. I guess I had a cache copy come up of this thread. After much cussin' I rewrote it and only discovered both had been posted today. I merged to two and deleted the first copy.[/color]
Well Mud Shrimp tis easy to tell fan worms (usually) from Aiptasia. Movement near a fan worm will cause it to retract into its tube. An Aiptasia may react to movement or light but cannot fully contract like a tube worm. Tube worms are a good thingy and indicate good quality rock. There are hundreds of types of tube worms so Mel's pics only show a couple of varieties.
Ahhh, the Christmas Spirit(s) have influenced a few newbies I see. I know how it goes; you were going to buy a small tank and a few swordtails for the kiddies and then it happened. Out of the corner of your eye you saw a super looking Coral Beauty and, in a reversal of roles, you were hooked. You carted a tank 10 times the size of what you planned, and several hundred dollars of accessories, home from the LFS and entered the world of reefing. It is a common disease this time of year.
Well, it is now over 3 weeks since Christmas and if you have fish still swimming about---
Congratulations---you have set up your first quarantine tank!!!. :fish2:
The thing here is to take it SLOW. You may have read this thread from the beginning and you are tempted to correct everything at once. DON'T!!!!
Sure, you have some fish, pink gravel, an under gravel filter and a little diver that issues bubbles. But, you also have a somewhat stable tank. Very often the fish themselves will harbor nitrifying bacteria that will seed a tank. If the load is low it may be enough to save the fish from ammonia toxicity. Trying to correct everything at this time will often make things worse and seal the poor fish's fate.
Step one here is to treat the tank as a Q-tank and use it to isolate your new fish. You need to get a SW ammonia test kit and check ammonia levels ASAP. If they are low, as I would expect, then start doing some small, frequent water changes; say about 5% every 5-7 days. If ammonia is present you might try one of the ammonia removal products such as AmQuel to sequest the ammonia for the time being. It goes without saying that no matter the ammonia level you not add any other living critters to the tank.
Now, you can take back that plasma TV and get a good DI unit, some lights, heaters, pumps, sumps, etc. and prepare yourself to set up a true reef tank. You can also get some LR and cycle it outside the main tank. This is outlined earlier in this thread. While your fish are in quarantine you will be letting your rock cure in separate containers. You want it fully cured before you start to set up you tank. The fish at the same time will have completed their quarantine and fish and rock can be introduced to each other. You also want to do the same with LS. Give it a week or so in a separate curing container before introducing it into the main tank.
As long as the fish are in the main tank and there are water changes they should be fine. If you're low on cash just buy stuff as the back account allows. The fish will be OK just taken aback by that pink gravel. :crazy1:
Next--WaterKeeper's "Annual Year in Review". What's that you say--I never wrote an annual year in review in the past. Well then, WaterKeeper's "1st Annual Year in Review".
[color= dark green]Sorry about yesterdays double post. My connection went down just as I hit the submit button and when I returned later on it appeared that my post had been lost. I guess I had a cache copy come up of this thread. After much cussin' I rewrote it and only discovered both had been posted today. I merged to two and deleted the first copy.[/color]
Well Mud Shrimp tis easy to tell fan worms (usually) from Aiptasia. Movement near a fan worm will cause it to retract into its tube. An Aiptasia may react to movement or light but cannot fully contract like a tube worm. Tube worms are a good thingy and indicate good quality rock. There are hundreds of types of tube worms so Mel's pics only show a couple of varieties.
Ahhh, the Christmas Spirit(s) have influenced a few newbies I see. I know how it goes; you were going to buy a small tank and a few swordtails for the kiddies and then it happened. Out of the corner of your eye you saw a super looking Coral Beauty and, in a reversal of roles, you were hooked. You carted a tank 10 times the size of what you planned, and several hundred dollars of accessories, home from the LFS and entered the world of reefing. It is a common disease this time of year.
Well, it is now over 3 weeks since Christmas and if you have fish still swimming about---
Congratulations---you have set up your first quarantine tank!!!. :fish2:
The thing here is to take it SLOW. You may have read this thread from the beginning and you are tempted to correct everything at once. DON'T!!!!
Sure, you have some fish, pink gravel, an under gravel filter and a little diver that issues bubbles. But, you also have a somewhat stable tank. Very often the fish themselves will harbor nitrifying bacteria that will seed a tank. If the load is low it may be enough to save the fish from ammonia toxicity. Trying to correct everything at this time will often make things worse and seal the poor fish's fate.
Step one here is to treat the tank as a Q-tank and use it to isolate your new fish. You need to get a SW ammonia test kit and check ammonia levels ASAP. If they are low, as I would expect, then start doing some small, frequent water changes; say about 5% every 5-7 days. If ammonia is present you might try one of the ammonia removal products such as AmQuel to sequest the ammonia for the time being. It goes without saying that no matter the ammonia level you not add any other living critters to the tank.
Now, you can take back that plasma TV and get a good DI unit, some lights, heaters, pumps, sumps, etc. and prepare yourself to set up a true reef tank. You can also get some LR and cycle it outside the main tank. This is outlined earlier in this thread. While your fish are in quarantine you will be letting your rock cure in separate containers. You want it fully cured before you start to set up you tank. The fish at the same time will have completed their quarantine and fish and rock can be introduced to each other. You also want to do the same with LS. Give it a week or so in a separate curing container before introducing it into the main tank.
As long as the fish are in the main tank and there are water changes they should be fine. If you're low on cash just buy stuff as the back account allows. The fish will be OK just taken aback by that pink gravel. :crazy1:
Next--WaterKeeper's "Annual Year in Review". What's that you say--I never wrote an annual year in review in the past. Well then, WaterKeeper's "1st Annual Year in Review".
Last edited:
Year in Review Part A
As I look back on the past year many things vex my mind such as, "Why are all boxes of spaghetti the same length at the supermarket and, likewise, is there a standards committee that sets the size of a sheet of toilet paper? They all appear to adhere to some standard."
Oh well, we enter the new year at RC with over 80,000 members and continue to grow. If there was a number one story at RC this year it centered around three characters named Charlie, Frances and Ivan who visited Florida late last summer. In howling winds RC computer guru, Greg Taylor, placed his family in a canoe and headed off to the flooded RC computer center in Tampa Bay to save the RC server that went down. Meanwhile Jason Nugent, MalHavoc, made a temporary RC site on his Playstation 2 so RC'ers would have a place to call home; much like ET. Evidently cracking under the strain the entire RC Staff went crazy on the temp board and the very future of RC seemed in doubt.
It is my understanding that at this point our founder, John Link, stepped in and rented a helicopter in Long Island. He flew non-stop to western Florida and, in winds over 100 mph, lowered a can of ether starter spray to Greg. Greg then was able to start the backup generator and restore RC to full glory. Just in time in my humble opinion.
In Reef related items one of the hot topics has undoubtedly been Bomber's Bare Bottom- Starboard Reef. The "Bomb" has taken me on, a DBS advocate, and indeed tries to tax me by using a signature, "Sandbeds operate like wormholes and the excess nutrients and detritus are transported to a sister galaxy--Proud President of the 'I'm too dumb to run a DSB' club." If it was anyone else but Bomber I would have his bare bottom cleaning latrines until doomsday.
Actually this has become a very hot topic. There is nothing new about bare bottom tanks. Some 20 years ago some of my own tank ran in this fashion. I always had nitrate problems with such tanks but LR was not really understood back then. Anyway, Bomber contends that the DBS is a time-bomb(er) waiting to happen and bare bottom is the way to go.
He has attracted several converts and many of us will be watching their progress this next year to see how the experiment turns out. I still suggest you newbies stay with the DBS approach till more data is collected. If it can be proven that a DBS is a toxic minefield and that a smooth, reflective bare bottom is the way to go you'll have plenty of time to remove it. You do want to keep track of developments on this topic in the coming year. It should be interesting.
The lighting wars seem to have settled down this year. T-5 was much talked about but there was less of the "Unless you spend a bundle and change you're lighting to type X you're a poor excuse for a Reefer." This lighting thing comes up every couple of years. I got caught myself by the Power Compact craze a few years back. It was only after I converted a hood to the PC's that I said,"What's all the fuss about? My VHO was just as good and the 03 actinic of these PC tubes isn't worth a hoot."
IMO, as long as you have enough intensity and spectral coverage with your lights most forms will be fine for you tank. Sure MH is great but you can keep just about anything under VHO if the hood will hold enough to provide the light you tank residents require.
At the same time the K wars have also ended. It appears that 20K is about the upper limit on lighting at this time. That is a good thing as if K values went much higher they would go outside the visible spectrum and we couldn't see what was in our tanks.
I did notice the "Neon Mooners" are still about but this year tend to be the "LED Mooners". There were several threads about using light emitting diodes to provide moonlight for one's tank. Yours truly is all for realism but I'm kind of torn on this one. The thing I guess that really bothers me is the claim that the moonlight gets corals to spawn. Gang, I've never had coral spawn but I'm not so sure I'd want that to happen in my tank. I see the moonlite reefer with his tide and moon phase charts waiting for the right night. He turns off the skimmer and mechanical filtration in anticipation of the wondrous event.
I also see the tank's bacteria population with similar charts and a calendar marked "Thanksgiving Feast" for the same date. As the water fills with gametes, pheromones and hormones the bacteria come to dinner. The result is the next day dissolved oxygen levels have dropped below two and the other tank residents are most unhappy. The other thing is that whenever I hear about one of these coral spawns I never hear much from the proud owners about the off-spring. Some how I just don't know what I'd do if suddenly I had hundreds of coral babies here, there and everywhere in my tank. It would certainly test my ability in crowd control.
I think I'll stick with asexual propagation and, if the coral need more excitement, roll over the TV and play a National Geographic or Discovery Channel Reef show for my coral. They almost always have a graphic depiction of a spawning event. Heck, I may add some Vodka to the tank and let them get tipsy.
"Number 3, you have failed this organization for the last time. Before I feed Number 3 to my man-eating Chrysiptera cyanea Tell him, Number 5 who we know that likes vodka martinis shaken not stirred? SPLASH--AHHHH!!!! Good Number 5, Number 3 will help speed my tank's cycle."
The Vodka Thread sure was a HOT over on the chemistry forum. Lots of comments and by the time it was finished a shot a day of vodka in your tank would cure all ills and make your corals grow a foot a day.
The premise behind this is an old one. De-nitrification requires a carbon source. Reactors used in the water reclamation field use de-nitrifying columns that often use methanol as that carbon source. As a side benefit they also may allow biological uptake of phosphates. Supposedly adding vodka to ones tank will accomplish this and more. The amounts of organic carbon, DOC, already in the water column seems to be overlooked in these discussions but what the heck. Interesting reading if you have the time.
Well enough for today. I have things to ponder such as--"Why would one name a contraceptive devise a Trojan? Did they not read the Iliad where the innocent looking gift lowered the defenses and slipped in through the now open city gates; once inside unleashing the hoard of unseen troops upon the unwary victim?" It's a puzzlement.
Till next time.
As I look back on the past year many things vex my mind such as, "Why are all boxes of spaghetti the same length at the supermarket and, likewise, is there a standards committee that sets the size of a sheet of toilet paper? They all appear to adhere to some standard."
Oh well, we enter the new year at RC with over 80,000 members and continue to grow. If there was a number one story at RC this year it centered around three characters named Charlie, Frances and Ivan who visited Florida late last summer. In howling winds RC computer guru, Greg Taylor, placed his family in a canoe and headed off to the flooded RC computer center in Tampa Bay to save the RC server that went down. Meanwhile Jason Nugent, MalHavoc, made a temporary RC site on his Playstation 2 so RC'ers would have a place to call home; much like ET. Evidently cracking under the strain the entire RC Staff went crazy on the temp board and the very future of RC seemed in doubt.
It is my understanding that at this point our founder, John Link, stepped in and rented a helicopter in Long Island. He flew non-stop to western Florida and, in winds over 100 mph, lowered a can of ether starter spray to Greg. Greg then was able to start the backup generator and restore RC to full glory. Just in time in my humble opinion.
In Reef related items one of the hot topics has undoubtedly been Bomber's Bare Bottom- Starboard Reef. The "Bomb" has taken me on, a DBS advocate, and indeed tries to tax me by using a signature, "Sandbeds operate like wormholes and the excess nutrients and detritus are transported to a sister galaxy--Proud President of the 'I'm too dumb to run a DSB' club." If it was anyone else but Bomber I would have his bare bottom cleaning latrines until doomsday.
Actually this has become a very hot topic. There is nothing new about bare bottom tanks. Some 20 years ago some of my own tank ran in this fashion. I always had nitrate problems with such tanks but LR was not really understood back then. Anyway, Bomber contends that the DBS is a time-bomb(er) waiting to happen and bare bottom is the way to go.
He has attracted several converts and many of us will be watching their progress this next year to see how the experiment turns out. I still suggest you newbies stay with the DBS approach till more data is collected. If it can be proven that a DBS is a toxic minefield and that a smooth, reflective bare bottom is the way to go you'll have plenty of time to remove it. You do want to keep track of developments on this topic in the coming year. It should be interesting.
The lighting wars seem to have settled down this year. T-5 was much talked about but there was less of the "Unless you spend a bundle and change you're lighting to type X you're a poor excuse for a Reefer." This lighting thing comes up every couple of years. I got caught myself by the Power Compact craze a few years back. It was only after I converted a hood to the PC's that I said,"What's all the fuss about? My VHO was just as good and the 03 actinic of these PC tubes isn't worth a hoot."
IMO, as long as you have enough intensity and spectral coverage with your lights most forms will be fine for you tank. Sure MH is great but you can keep just about anything under VHO if the hood will hold enough to provide the light you tank residents require.
At the same time the K wars have also ended. It appears that 20K is about the upper limit on lighting at this time. That is a good thing as if K values went much higher they would go outside the visible spectrum and we couldn't see what was in our tanks.
I did notice the "Neon Mooners" are still about but this year tend to be the "LED Mooners". There were several threads about using light emitting diodes to provide moonlight for one's tank. Yours truly is all for realism but I'm kind of torn on this one. The thing I guess that really bothers me is the claim that the moonlight gets corals to spawn. Gang, I've never had coral spawn but I'm not so sure I'd want that to happen in my tank. I see the moonlite reefer with his tide and moon phase charts waiting for the right night. He turns off the skimmer and mechanical filtration in anticipation of the wondrous event.
I also see the tank's bacteria population with similar charts and a calendar marked "Thanksgiving Feast" for the same date. As the water fills with gametes, pheromones and hormones the bacteria come to dinner. The result is the next day dissolved oxygen levels have dropped below two and the other tank residents are most unhappy. The other thing is that whenever I hear about one of these coral spawns I never hear much from the proud owners about the off-spring. Some how I just don't know what I'd do if suddenly I had hundreds of coral babies here, there and everywhere in my tank. It would certainly test my ability in crowd control.
I think I'll stick with asexual propagation and, if the coral need more excitement, roll over the TV and play a National Geographic or Discovery Channel Reef show for my coral. They almost always have a graphic depiction of a spawning event. Heck, I may add some Vodka to the tank and let them get tipsy.
"Number 3, you have failed this organization for the last time. Before I feed Number 3 to my man-eating Chrysiptera cyanea Tell him, Number 5 who we know that likes vodka martinis shaken not stirred? SPLASH--AHHHH!!!! Good Number 5, Number 3 will help speed my tank's cycle."
The Vodka Thread sure was a HOT over on the chemistry forum. Lots of comments and by the time it was finished a shot a day of vodka in your tank would cure all ills and make your corals grow a foot a day.
The premise behind this is an old one. De-nitrification requires a carbon source. Reactors used in the water reclamation field use de-nitrifying columns that often use methanol as that carbon source. As a side benefit they also may allow biological uptake of phosphates. Supposedly adding vodka to ones tank will accomplish this and more. The amounts of organic carbon, DOC, already in the water column seems to be overlooked in these discussions but what the heck. Interesting reading if you have the time.
Well enough for today. I have things to ponder such as--"Why would one name a contraceptive devise a Trojan? Did they not read the Iliad where the innocent looking gift lowered the defenses and slipped in through the now open city gates; once inside unleashing the hoard of unseen troops upon the unwary victim?" It's a puzzlement.
Till next time.
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Radicaljbr
Active member
Tom,
once again you have made my day!!!
Thanks for the link to that Vodka thread.....I can't believe that I missed that one.
once again you have made my day!!!
Thanks for the link to that Vodka thread.....I can't believe that I missed that one.
Year in Reviewââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬ÂAct II
I wonder---ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œHaving read all 4 million posts on RC I found that there are still 116 of our 81,000 members that have not visited the Reef Chemistry Forum and asked Randy, ââ"šÂ¬Ã‹Å“How do I raise calcium and alkalinity while lowering pH?ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ Do these 116 already know how to do it or did they never learn to type?ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚Â
The tip of the year for me comes from Steve Pro. He wrote Quarantine Tanks and said he keeps his Q-tank in mothballs when not in use. Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve always maintained a Q-tank like a nano with LR and such. I also have a hospital tank that is barebones but when not in use has a few dwarf sea horses, snails and some plastic plants. I use water from my main tank periodically to do water changes on both the Q and H tanks. This keeps the tanks cycled and ready for use. When I asked Steve how he deals with the cycle on a tank he only sets up when needed he told me he puts a small biowheel filter on his sump and runs it all the time. When he need the Q-tank he just fills it with main tank water and uses the biowheel filter on the Q-tank. Instant cycle and a great idea.
This also eliminates a problem with the hospital tank when using a copper based medication. If you leave it running like I did algae grows on the glass. Before adding copper I needed to make sure that algae was removed or it would die and possibly foul the tank. Steveââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s solution is also great if you live in an apartment with limited space. Thanks Steve.
In the things that gave me a good feeling about you newbies this past year it is that when asking for help and telling me about your tank set-up you often say, ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ÂI use RO/DI water.ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ In past years that was seldom the case. It does me proud to see so many of you starting out using high quality water for your tanks. Fifteen years ago you needed a major investment to get RO/DI. A lab unit like mine ran into the thousands of dollars and the replacement cartridges cost about what a round trip ticket to Hawaii would run. Today you can pick one up for under $200. Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m glad so many of you realize how important a piece of equipment this is for a successful reef tank. Way to GO Newbies!
Things that change over what I preach. Over the years Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve cautioned newbies and seasoned reefers alike about attempting to keep anemones. IMO they were difficult and required intense lighting. I tried them early in my SW days and had no luck (neither did the poor anemones). I am seeing now many reports of people keeping anemones for several years and under fairly normal reef conditions. Wizardgus posted Host Anemones FAQ that gives tips on their upkeep. One thing that does get me is that we get the some who say, ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œAnemones live for hundreds of years in the wild.ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ Give me a break. I am all for conserving our reef populations but such statements donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t hold water. Sure some anemones may live that long but how many? Maybe one in 100,000. Hey the ocean is a dangerous place and predation is the rule not an isolated event. Anemones die and usually well before then become centenians. If people are keeping anemones for several years those anemones are outliving the majority of their wild cousins.
Anyway, off the bandwagon, it seems that anemones are indeed finding good homes in reef tanks. You want to get some experience before adding one to a fairly new tank but they are now off my list of critters to avoid.
Well, my mind again dwells on different topics. I wonderââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Âââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œIf the Klingons are now our allies, why hasnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t the Federation given Worf the secret of Botox injection technology?ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚Â
To be continued.
I wonder---ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œHaving read all 4 million posts on RC I found that there are still 116 of our 81,000 members that have not visited the Reef Chemistry Forum and asked Randy, ââ"šÂ¬Ã‹Å“How do I raise calcium and alkalinity while lowering pH?ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ Do these 116 already know how to do it or did they never learn to type?ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚Â
The tip of the year for me comes from Steve Pro. He wrote Quarantine Tanks and said he keeps his Q-tank in mothballs when not in use. Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve always maintained a Q-tank like a nano with LR and such. I also have a hospital tank that is barebones but when not in use has a few dwarf sea horses, snails and some plastic plants. I use water from my main tank periodically to do water changes on both the Q and H tanks. This keeps the tanks cycled and ready for use. When I asked Steve how he deals with the cycle on a tank he only sets up when needed he told me he puts a small biowheel filter on his sump and runs it all the time. When he need the Q-tank he just fills it with main tank water and uses the biowheel filter on the Q-tank. Instant cycle and a great idea.
This also eliminates a problem with the hospital tank when using a copper based medication. If you leave it running like I did algae grows on the glass. Before adding copper I needed to make sure that algae was removed or it would die and possibly foul the tank. Steveââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s solution is also great if you live in an apartment with limited space. Thanks Steve.
In the things that gave me a good feeling about you newbies this past year it is that when asking for help and telling me about your tank set-up you often say, ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ÂI use RO/DI water.ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ In past years that was seldom the case. It does me proud to see so many of you starting out using high quality water for your tanks. Fifteen years ago you needed a major investment to get RO/DI. A lab unit like mine ran into the thousands of dollars and the replacement cartridges cost about what a round trip ticket to Hawaii would run. Today you can pick one up for under $200. Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m glad so many of you realize how important a piece of equipment this is for a successful reef tank. Way to GO Newbies!
Things that change over what I preach. Over the years Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve cautioned newbies and seasoned reefers alike about attempting to keep anemones. IMO they were difficult and required intense lighting. I tried them early in my SW days and had no luck (neither did the poor anemones). I am seeing now many reports of people keeping anemones for several years and under fairly normal reef conditions. Wizardgus posted Host Anemones FAQ that gives tips on their upkeep. One thing that does get me is that we get the some who say, ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œAnemones live for hundreds of years in the wild.ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ Give me a break. I am all for conserving our reef populations but such statements donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t hold water. Sure some anemones may live that long but how many? Maybe one in 100,000. Hey the ocean is a dangerous place and predation is the rule not an isolated event. Anemones die and usually well before then become centenians. If people are keeping anemones for several years those anemones are outliving the majority of their wild cousins.
Anyway, off the bandwagon, it seems that anemones are indeed finding good homes in reef tanks. You want to get some experience before adding one to a fairly new tank but they are now off my list of critters to avoid.
Well, my mind again dwells on different topics. I wonderââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Âââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œIf the Klingons are now our allies, why hasnââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t the Federation given Worf the secret of Botox injection technology?ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚Â
To be continued.
Mud Shrimp Moe
New member
WaterKeeper said:
Granted it's "eat or get eaten" out there in the big, real-life Ocean, but if some of them didn't live a super long time then how would we even know they could?
I got that piece of datum from Dr. Ron Shimek's (sp?) book, actually, and I think it's an important thing to remember. I probably won't get an anemone, at least for a very long time, because if a few years is considered a upward range bench mark for success for keeping an animal that COULD live >100 years, then count me out.
I'd honestly prefer to keep some coral that will propogate and maybe the odd fish that will live some large fraction of it's theoretically lifespan.
Mud Shrimp Moe said:
I don't debate that at all Moe. Indeed, most fish do not live as long in our tanks as they do in the wild but these senior citizens are an exception not the rule. To me we are cruel when we make one of those posts "My New Tank with Pic, Took Only a Week to Cycle!". The author of such posts show a tank full of fish after 10 days. A week later he posts another picture with entirely different fish and no mention of where the first fish went. I guess he just rents the fish from Rent-a-Center a week at a time. This is a disgrace.
We must defend out hobby from poor husbandry practices. Yet, If I can only keep a fish for 8 years that might, and I stress the word might, live 12 years in the wild am I doing an injustice? I think not. We are usually talking maximum ages here and the average age is probably not all that high. That same fish in the wild may only have an average age of half of 12 years so my 8 year old tank kept fish did pretty well.
We must strive to make our tanks the best possible environment for our livestock. We still have a ways to go on that and much more research is needed. The hobby still continues to advance and RC does much to help that advancement. On the other hand; if we all expected our charges to live to maximum age then we would probably have bare tanks of water. Just my opinion.
Mud Shrimp Moe
New member
WaterKeeper said:
Yes it is. I'm also not so fond of the posts like "Why do I keep losing (insert name of animal)" where the poster says he bought one and it died, so he bought another and it died so he bought another and it died .... etc.
WaterKeeper said:
I agree with you here. And, like I said, I'd rather keep things that have good odds of surviving a LARGE FRACTION of their theoretical lifetime. Eight out of twelve years is pretty good indeed. Three out of a hundred ..... not so much.
I'm not trying to preach here, by the way. But I have personal misgivings about keeping anemones until I've convinced myself that my reefkeeping abilities are first class. I think they're interesting animals for sure, but I'm not at all comfortable with taking risks with anemones because I personally think their long (maximum) lifespan makes them a very special animal and because it's well demonstrated that they don't thrive in tanks that aren't kept extremely well. And I may well never keep them.
This isn't to say that I intend to keep hearty animals so I can take shortcuts. It's more of an admission to myself that I don't have the experience yet.
silkchaos
Member
Mudshrimp,
I can see your points. My personal thoughts are that I will not try to keep anything unless I am fairly sure that I am experienced (based on RC people's thoughts) enough to keep it alive. The idea of some of the creatures possible life span being much longer in the ocean, does raise an interesting counter argument. How many of them are eaten/destroyed earlier? In some cases, will we increase the length that they are likely to live? Now, I don't know how you would verify this, but it is worth considering.
Robinson
I can see your points. My personal thoughts are that I will not try to keep anything unless I am fairly sure that I am experienced (based on RC people's thoughts) enough to keep it alive. The idea of some of the creatures possible life span being much longer in the ocean, does raise an interesting counter argument. How many of them are eaten/destroyed earlier? In some cases, will we increase the length that they are likely to live? Now, I don't know how you would verify this, but it is worth considering.
Robinson
Edit - sorry reread the thread and wanted to re-write my blurb. I
think Tom (for the most part) wrote a nice, measured idea about anemones. In context of the rest of what you wrote I understand the statement above - but if we take an extreme view - one could state that more would (have a chance to) be centenians if less were taken from the wild. But overall I totally agree with you.
Mud shrimp Moe - I think your attitude towards anemones are commendable - i also agree with that stance. One thing I've been told though is that some species are able to clone themselves - and do so readily in many home-kept tanks. So would you still hold the same perspective on a cloned anemone? (this may of course lead to a discourse on the ethics of cloned animals - but I am not asking for that and am not trying to drive a conversation towards that!!!).
Anyway - both views are insightful and great. Tom thanks so much for this thread - keep up the great work. And uh...the lighting wars do not seem to subside - there is a growing chorus of folks denouncing anything but T5 for the "supposed" reason of replacement bulb lifespan. There's a quick thread from the Icecap sponsor that talks a bit about bulb life here if that helps: Icecap
Mud Shrimp Moe
New member
phil519 said:
Are you talking about asexual reproduction (aka division) or laboratory cloning? I don't have an ethical issue with either, really. If an animal is propogating in captivity I think that's a sign that it's doing well. So, yeah, I'd feel a little better at taking a tank propogated specimen, although I still don't feel like my reef keeping husbandry is quite up to scratch to start shopping for anemone at this time.
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