Solar Panels

BonsaiNut

Premium Member
For what it's worth, I just had a 9kW solar panel system installed on our house. I couldn't be more pleased with the results. Last month, the utility actually OWED us $195 for electricity, LOL.

Of course, we live in Southern California, where electricity is REALLY expensive and the sun is abundant. However, with all the rebates and credits, a solar system finally dropped in price to where I was seeing a 5 year pay-back on the investment, so we took the plunge and had it installed.

Why am I telling you all this? So that if any of you have questions (like I did) you can talk to someone who has no vested interest in selling you a system :)
 
Does the local provider just give you a running credit for the power you are sending back to the grid?

Yes. In the summer we generate the most power, especially on cooler days. We run a surplus of electricity during the summer. We expect we will generate much less in the winter, since the sun is lower and the days much shorter.

Before they installed the system the ran pretty sophisticated forecasting models. They put a GPS unit on our roof, measuring the heading as well as the angle, and had historical sun records. They have been very accurate so far about forecasting how much electricity we would generate.
 
are you using a power storage like batterys or anything like that

No we are not. We are still on the grid, so we can use electricity at night when we aren't generating. If the electricity grid fails during the day, we will still have electricity, assuming we generate more than we consume.

Batteries are really only needed for applications where you are off the grid - like if you had a cabin in the mountains or something similar. They add a lot to the cost of a solar install - and take up a fair amount of space as well.
 
How much on average was your monthly kw usage? Were you previuosly energy conservative or was this your first step toward energy conservation?

How much energy is your tank using?

I've been looking into solar panels and wind turbines here in Florida because we get alot of sun here.
 
How much on average was your monthly kw usage? Were you previuosly energy conservative or was this your first step toward energy conservation?

How much energy is your tank using?

I am not currently running a reef tank (between tanks atm), but I have a large koi pond and a swimming pool. We have lived in this same house for 14 years, and have spent thousands of dollars on improving efficiencies and trying to reduce electricity usage. We have replaced all pool and pond pumps to high-efficiency variable speed pumps, have purchased higher efficiency appliances, etc. Over 14 years we have lowered our average electricity usage 20% - and this is while we've had two kids who add a lot to our usage. Our current monthly usage is about 1400 kWh.

During the same time period, we have seen electricity rates in Southern California DOUBLE. They currently are running about $.25 per kWh for our entire bill - peak rates are as high as $.29 per kWh. They have been increasing at a compounded rate of 6.7% every year for the last 14 years. I wish I had an investment that did half so well!

The cost of solar panels continues to fall, but they still require hefty rebates and tax credits to make them cost-efficient at this time - at least for us because we are really fiscally conservative and want a short financial payback. If you live in Florida and have some space in your yard, you might want to research "thin film solar" as a low-cost application. Thin film solar is much less EFFICIENT than traditional silicon, but it also costs about 1/10th as much. If you have the space (like a large back yard - or a large warehouse roof) thin film solar may be a better alternative. Silicon is used for residential rooftop installs because you need to generate the most electricity from the smallest space.

One benefit of solar panels we weren't expecting - they keep your house cooler. The panels are placed where you get the most sun, and obviously they block all sunlight from hitting your roof. They have a minimum standoff of about 9" to allow air to circulate underneath, so the end result is that it is kinda like placing a sun shade over the hottest parts of your roof. If you have 1000 square feet (or more) of panels, this can add up to a lot of shade.

Plus, they make your house worth a lot more - for buyers who are informed about the benefits of solar. Our electricity bill averaged $350+ per month prior to the install, and we NEVER run A/C and as I said have improved efficiencies on many of our appliances. Now we are projecting it to run $50 or less per month average over the entire year.

Nothing is cooler than running your pool pump and your A/C, and going out and looking at your electrical meter and seeing it running BACKWARDS.
 
Last edited:
Well I'm still young but looking at buying my own home in the next few years and am planning to go as green as possible for the financial savings it offers. I have even looked into going off the grid, but I woul need a couple of wind turbines to run just my tank lol.
 
"going of the grid" is a lot harder than you think. First of all electricity either needs to be used as it is produced, which is the most feasible alternative, or stored to be used at a later date. Ie a battery, which is very inconvenient and not cost effective. Just an example: we use lead acid batteries for a back up system in our substations, we generally use 24 batteries for a small 69kv package sub. Its primary purpose is to have control over the DC system in case the AC goes down. It only lasts for about three days if the AC is out. This is not a continuous load for three days its a if we need x amount of power to operate breakers load we have it available to us for three days before we loose the battery ability. These batteries are close to $12K. There should also be a secondary containment, since it is lead acid, and ventilation to dissipate any gas build up. These batteries are roughly the same size as a car battery. I have been in business's that had UPS's (uninterrupted power supply's) but they were rooms filled with 100's of batteries. And this is just to store the power. Currently we can only store electricity in DC form, but our house uses AC. So we need to convert it. This is where the hole solar panel idea loses me. The converter, inverter or rectifier (what ever you want to call it) generally the first piece of equipment that goes bad in the solar system. It is probably the most important piece of equipment and is the most expensive part. I have seen people spend $20K for a system and in 2,3 or 5 years have this piece of equipment go bad and its another $3-5K to replace it. And you need this piece of equipment. All of the green methods for producing electricity produce in the form of DC, wind, water, solar anything that we as a small consumer would use would come from those three options. In the long run there might not be a financial savings, it just depends on the system built, where you live, the quality of the system, and how long will the system last.
Bonsainut would you mind sharing how much the system actually costs. Before all the government rebates (which might be there from year to year), local utility rebates ( again same as feds, which can also vary from utility to utility). I am thinking between $20-30k yes or no. You did, from the sounds of it, put a pretty large system up.
Also IMO $.25 a kw is highway robbery. My local utility starts at $.11 to .14 for the first two tiers and jumps to $.27 for the third tier and its just ridiculous. The Utility company I work for charges 30% less then my local utility provider. But that is the difference between a company that has shareholders and a municipality. Sorry for the long wind, just wanted to point out that its really not that easy to go off the grid especially when were talking about it in a reef keeping forum!!! ;)
Kudoz to you bonsai for taking the plunge I really do hope it works out for you in the long run. I too aspire to put a solar system on my roof, or build it into my roof when I build my house, I just don't think the technology is there.
 
I understand what your saying about an off grid system being complicated, but if handled properly it is possible with less $$ than you might be thinking if the homeowners are energy conscious and good DIYers. A good wind turbine can be built for around $100 and solar panels can also be self installed or even DIY constructions for alot less than what companies are charging to manufacture, deliver, and install them.

You do make a valid point about the issues of "off the grid" living with a reef tank, however to me it's just one more piece of motivation to stop giving away my hard earned money to the electric company. What gets me the most is that my energy supplier charges it's customers a $14.95 monthly customer fee. The kicker to that is they are the only alternative. If I can't go off the grid I'd like to be as close as possible.
 
I agree with Madean on this one. What do you want to accomplish by going off the grid?

Batteries, etc, will double the cost of your system. Additionally, they are not the most eco-friendly devices out there - and why buy something you don't need? If you want to truly have a "net zero" electricity demand, you can do it easier and cheaper in combination with the traditional grid.

Solar panels are awesome, but they are not flawless. There is a definite seasonality to them, and they do much better in the summer than winter. Plus, if you suddenly have a week-long rain storm, it is nice to know the electricity grid is out there. Why do you care if in fact you end up paying pennies per year to be connected to them?

By the way, you are right the bill is never $0, but it is close. My agreement is that my minimum bill in any month is $1.75, and any excess electricity generated is carried forward to the next month. However I designed the system to be able to meet about 80% of our electricity needs, since that made the most financial sense due to the way electricity rates rise exponentially and the first few kWh each month are so cheap.

I'm with you emotionally, however. I hate the utilities. To me they are a government-protected monopoly. With every "green" improvement, whether it is solar panels or LED lighting, I like to think I am getting closer to telling them to take a hike :) Don't get me started on my cable company :)
 
where i live it cost 30 bucks a month just to be tied in, that's the minimal they charge, even if i don't use any power at all, i wish i could had plains for a wind turbans here in Oklahoma the wind blows almost every day i have a 1300 sq foot shop i would build and but the turbans on to help with the house 400 month bill, any links are info some one could pm me would be great.
 
My reason for going off the grid would be to completely remove my carbon footprint on an electrical standpoint. Everything helps and if I'm using no electicity from the grid source that means that even in catastrophic events I will still have access to my regular amount of power. You stated that your system grants you an average of 80% produced energy. That means you still need the grid to some extent. Don't get me wrong I think this is a great thing and I'm glad your sharing your information with us. I was simply hoping hat by the time I'm ready to invest in solar energy the technology to go off the grid will be available.
 
My parents had a "green company' put some panels up recently on their house. Their first bill (durring the summer and running A/C units) was only $25 for 2 or 3 months. They are expecting a 3 year return.
 
My reason for going off the grid would be to completely remove my carbon footprint on an electrical standpoint.

You can do that while being on the grid. In fact, you can do BETTER than that by actually generating an EXCESS of green energy - something you can't do while you're off the grid.

If you're off the grid, the best you can do is 100% of the electricity you use - and that assumes you buy a lot of extra equipment (to do so). Think of the carbon credits you could buy with that money - or the trees you could plant, if you want to get right down to it.
 
Ohh ok, I think REC solar it's bigger then solar city, I been doing solar for 8 years now, but solar city are known for always doing good residential jobs..
 
Ohh ok, I think REC solar it's bigger then solar city, I been doing solar for 8 years now, but solar city are known for always doing good residential jobs..

This is the list I got from Sacramento:

For California here are the top 10:

(1) SolarCity
(2) REC Solar
(3) Akeena Solar
(4) Borrego Solar
(5) SPG Solar
(6) REgrid Power
(7) Acro Electric
(8) Martin Solar
(9) Sun Light and Power
(10) Advanced Solar Electric

This is for residential installs - so you're right there may be some industrial/commercial installers not on this list.
 
i have done jobs for most of the companys u mention, but i only recomment the first 2 :)
i think theres another 10 solar companys in area and bay that i would also put my 2cents for good customer services and installations... premier power,northern calif solar solutions to mention few, but theres also lots of sales companys that will sell you the system under there name and maybe a unknown solar company will installed for you.. thats one of the things i dont like,because you dont have info bout this other party installations reviews or stuff like that...
 
Back
Top