Solar Panels

For what its worth I came across this company for a work related project. They figured out the Lion battery issue and are able to store 1 KwH of energy for under $1,500 in a footprint a little bigger than a Kleenex box and weighing in at allot less than a Lead Acid battery.

www.icelenergy.com
 
For what its worth I came across this company for a work related project. They figured out the Lion battery issue and are able to store 1 KwH of energy for under $1,500 in a footprint a little bigger than a Kleenex box and weighing in at allot less than a Lead Acid battery.

www.icelenergy.com
 
I'm interested. I hope this isn't too personal of a question, but roughly how much did it cost you to get the whole thing started?

If that's too personal, I understand and apologize. I'm just VERY very interested in this.
 
I'm interested. I hope this isn't too personal of a question, but roughly how much did it cost you to get the whole thing started?

Ok it gets very confusing here because right now there are a lot of companies offering a lot of different financial programs.

For a 9kW system, installed with all the bells and whistles, CASH in Southern California, would cost in the low $30,000 - $32,000 range, after rebates and credits. The rebates are based on state and region, so depending which state you live in, and which part of the state, you may save more or less.

However some companies are offering financial deals that work out better than cash. "How is this?" you ask?

Right now with the Green Energy revolution, there are a lot of tax incentives to be a green energy "utility", plus possible benefits for selling carbon offset credits, plant & equipment depreciation, etc. So some Solar companies are setting up a separate "utility" company where they install the panels on your roof, and you LEASE them for a specified period of time. They own the equipment, have to maintain it, etc, and you get the electricity while paying them a fee. In our case, we could buy the panels for $32K, or we could LEASE them for 15 years for a single up-front cash payment of $20K. After 15 years they will either give us the panels, or they have to come and remove them and return our roof back to its original condition.

In many ways, we felt the lease option was a better deal. First, because the majority of the benefit comes in the early years when the panels are most efficient, second because who knows where technology will be in 15 years and we will probably want to replace the entire system by then, and third because we like the idea that they have now contracted with us to keep the system maintained and replace any worn-out or inefficient elements of the system. We have an online monitoring system that shows exactly how much electricity is being generated and how efficiently the system is running. If the panels get dirty they'll even come wash them off :)

Lot of info, but it was very confusing when we finally decided on the program that worked for us. We had been looking at solar for 3 years so we had a lot of history to look at, and prices have been slowly coming down and we were able to cut a good deal (in my opinion). We are figuring about a 5 year payback.

Another way to think about it is this - we are currently paying $.25 per kWh for our electricity from San Diego Gas & Electric. With this solar system lease deal, we have done the equivalent of locking in an electrical rate of $.12 per kWh for the next 15 years (contractually guaranteed). We are expecting our solar panels to generate more than that (lowering costs further) and if they give us the panels at 15 years, all electricity generated from that point forward will be "free" - and the panels should still be better than 80% efficient. Plus, by then, if the utilities continue to increase rates as they have for the last 20+ years, the rate for electricity in Southern California will be over $.60 per kWh.
 
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Not affiliated, but find a lot of interesting reading in homepower.com (I have a subscription).
Also, for those investigating wind turbines, look into the boundry layer limitations.....
 
hmm, very interesting. Thank you. So time to start saving now to lease some solar panels xD
 
one thing to remember about solar panels is that electric companies are not required to buy your extra production in every state. in nj they do but this got started when they made laws for cogeneration powerplants (usually small natural gas burning plants) to help keep up with demand.

the other kinda ungreen thing about panels (there has been a local debate recently that i learned this) is that there is a large amount of lead and other hazardous materials that need to be taken care of upon the end of their ~15-20 year life.
 
For Alunai, think about the days of cloud cover in Minnesota, and also the number of days that your panels would be covered in snow! California, Nevada, and Arizona seem like fantastic places to put solar power, but where I live, its really probably too cloudy on a daily basis to make it work. I live in Houston, and there is not much solar here, and not just because its one of the brownest (non-green) places around.

If I was in Minnesota, I'd be looking at wind power, depending on where you live in the state.

I just took a trip to Spain and got to see Abengoa's concentrating solar towers near Seville, and also stood under a massive wind turbine up in the mountains. They were awesome. If you lived in the shadow of one of those mothers, you'd go crazy with the constant black and white, wup wup wup of the blades. Probably not the kind of thing for the suburbs. What I would like to hear is fractional ownership of a wind turbine. i.e., instead of putting up a small one in your back yard, you put up some money and be part owner of a turbine on the prarie. Makes more sense to me.
 
The wind turbine has its cons as well. There is generally a wind speed range that each turbine is rated for. For example if it is 5-25 mph obviously anything under 5 mph will not produce any electricity but anything over 25 mph can stress the turbine and damage it. But to go of the "grid" with wind turbines would be tough as well. I think people have a hard time with electricity. It has to be either used as it is produced or stored to be used at a later date. The electricity produced by the wind turbine would need to be used as it is produced. So your electrical demand would need to constantly match your wind turbine electrical production. Any time your demand is greater than your production you will need to increase your production, where will that come from? If you store the electricity in batteries you will need a rectifier to convert the AC produced by the turbine to DC. Then you will need a way to convert the DC back to AC when you need it. Also the wind turbine as it is spinning will continue to produce a current, if there is not a load diversion device or overcurrent alarm system in place the turbine will keep pumping current into your panel or the batteries, and depending on how much current is being produced, stored, and used will determine if any problems ensue. These issues are the reason why Power System Operators for power companies get paid so much money. A simple calculation of P = I x E can not be used to calculate how many watt hours you use in a home. voltage x current = power in watts. There are things like inductive reactance and capacitive reactance that will alter the amount of volt amps required to support x amount of watts used by you. This might sound like another language and trust me it is to some degree. The easiest way to get off of the grid is to live a life of no electricity. There are people out there who do this and I would be willing to bet that their life is very simple- ie no tv, no gadgets, NO reef tanks and just no electronic devices. Simple might not be the best descriptive word. The more education in electricity that one gets, the harder it is to understand the idea of getting off the "grid".
Kudos to those who invest in solar, in my previous post I hope that it did not come across as slamming the idea of solar. Heck I would love to do it. I think I would be more inclined to do it if I were building a house or redoing my roof, that way the cost is some what absorbed into the mortgage or remodel budget. But to front 20-32K is hard for a lot of people. Now I do think that the original thread starter was smart to lease the system, with the stipulation of that the company services and replaces any damaged components. Heck thats beautiful. So by the end of their contract they should be making money. I would not enter into a contract like this if the homeowner plans to move in a few years. This is all my opinion and Im sure it does not mean much for some, but if you are serious about going off the grid- take a few classes at the local community college about AC/DC theory. It will give you a better idea on how electricity works, and just how complicated it really is.
 
where i live it cost 30 bucks a month just to be tied in, that's the minimal they charge, even if i don't use any power at all, i wish i could had plains for a wind turbans here in Oklahoma the wind blows almost every day i have a 1300 sq foot shop i would build and but the turbans on to help with the house 400 month bill, any links are info some one could pm me would be great.


This should get you started :)

http://www.otherpower.com/
 
there was a recent article in the atlantic city press about how solar panels are being denied permits in rural areas because when there isnt enough demand due to sparse housing and some already having panels, the system cant manage more intake in a local area than use.
 
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