Spot on my new fish

[Mr. Thingdoer]

I know what happened, and Matt, and anybody else who's worked at a fish store that received Midas Blenny's should know what happened as well.

I said it earlier, so I'll quote myself:

"Midas Blennys' have a high mortality rate due to poor collection and handling procedures. Fish stores typically receive a number of Midas Blenny's at a time, and a rather high percentage of them do not survive the stresses of the journey from the sea to captivity. The healthiest of specimens will live a long life in captivity, but the less fortunate usually do not survive much more than a week.

One local fish store in particular lost 2 out of 3 in the first week after their last shipment of Midas Blennys'. The sole survivor has adapted to captive life and been healthy for at least month now. His price is $80
Another local store has had one for at least 2 months, but he's priced at $90

Many times this is the reason you'll see some Midas Blennys' priced at $80-90, and others priced at $25-35. The wholesale price on a Midas Blenny can be as low as $10, but if you factor in the mortality rate, then you'll understand the pricing structure. Typically the more expensive specimens have proven their adaptability.

You should only attempt to keep specimens who have proven their adaptability by purchasing Midas Blennys' that have been healthy in the store for two or more weeks, otherwise its a big risk."

 

[Pufferpunk]

Told ya, Glen's da man! He has the best attitude & knowledge base of anyone I've ever meet in retail. More like hanging out with a hobbiest. Did you at least get a refund?

 

[Mr. Thingdoer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15595368#post15595368 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Pufferpunk
Told ya, Glen's da man! He has the best attitude & knowledge base of anyone I've ever meet in retail. More like hanging out with a hobbiest. Did you at least get a refund?

I just talked to him on the phone.
I'm going to get a store credit.

This thread has burned me out. I just want to bury it.

 

[mm949]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15595404#post15595404 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mr. Thingdoer


This thread has burned me out. I just want to bury it.

.....was just trying to help...?? next time u acclimate test the water when your done...u might be surpised


and for future referrence i lose 1 of 10 blennies:rolleye1:

 

[FiReBReTHa]

yea, you are getting too defensive.

Yes, accilimation can kill a fish, not saying your method did but this hobby is NOT EXACT!!!! all results are NEVER the same.

acclimation can cause a drop of PH which has been known to cause damage to fish. now that you know this you can go out and learn about it.

we all learned this same exact way and draw our own conclusions on everything. its the point of having forums. if not. go read a book! forums are here so everyone can put in their two cents.

and make OT comments and get banned. lol.

 

[FiReBReTHa]

listen to the smoking crab, burn one and reeeelllaaaaxxx....

 

[Mr. Thingdoer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15596195#post15596195 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mm949
.....was just trying to help...?? next time u acclimate test the water when your done...u might be surpised


and for future referrence i lose 1 of 10 blennies:rolleye1:

What the hell does that mean?
How do you acclimate test the water when your done?
I don't think Salifert makes an "acclimate test."

I test the bag's SG to make sure I've met the target tank's SG.
What else do you suggest I do, test the ORP?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15596195#post15596195 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FiReBReTHa
this hobby is NOT EXACT!!!!

Really?

So I shouldn't run my tank at the EXACT same SG daily?
I guess I wasted my money on that useless refractometer

So I shouldn't aim to maintain an EXACT PH of 8.4?
good, I'll go close my windows.

So I shouldn't aim to equalize the water of the fish in the bag by acclimating to the EXACT same parameters of the target tank to prevent osmotic shock and other stressors?

Come on now...

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15596195#post15596195 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FiReBReTHa
now that you know this you can go out and learn about it.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15596195#post15596195 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FiReBReTHa
if not. go read a book!

I've read "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" cover to cover at least 10 times

I've read "Book of Coral Propagation, Volume 1 Edition 2" cover to cover at least 10 times

I've taken notes at lectures by: Steven Pro, Anthony Calfo, Bob Fenner, Matt Pedersen, Eric Borneman, etc...

I don't need you to tell me to go out and learn about anything.

I've seen your sump, maybe you should take your own advice.

 

[Mr. Thingdoer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15596299#post15596299 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FiReBReTHa
listen to the smoking crab, burn one and reeeelllaaaaxxx....

That would be nice, but I'm all out...

 

[FiReBReTHa]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15596496#post15596496 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mr. Thingdoer
Really?

So I shouldn't run my tank at the EXACT same SG daily?
I guess I wasted my money on that useless refractometer

So I shouldn't aim to maintain an EXACT PH of 8.4?
good, I'll go close my windows.

So I shouldn't aim to equalize the water of the fish in the bag by acclimating to the EXACT same parameters of the target tank to prevent osmotic shock and other stressors?

Come on now...

I don't need you to tell me to go out and learn about anything.

I've seen your sump, maybe you should take your own advice.

You are the first reefer to claim that reef hobby is exact. Everyone of us deals with different parameters and different situations yielding different results that change by the hour.

You are STILL taking offense to everything, CALM DOWN!! I said read a book if you dont want people commenting! thats all I meant by it and you make it out to be like I am attacking your intelligence!
im over here
<~
and your attacking me about something over here ~> that I wasn't even being negative. you do need to step back from this thread if you are getting so worked up. you are attacking people trying to help.


I can disprove everyone of those things you mentioned that you think is exact because nothing is without flaw! PH fluctuates, easily, SG fluctuates with evaporation, yes, we try to stabilize this factors but you cannot tell me that you will keep that tank at those exact numbers 24 hours a day. The ph test packets can be manufactured out of spec, they can be old, etc. etc. etc. etc.
If you believe that everything is reliable and 100% then I want some of what your smoking!
We try to comprehend nature as best as possible and replicate it as best as possible.

But until you show me an artificial orange or grapefruit that was created in a lab to be exact to what you find in nature, I will say say now what I always believed, that we cannot control everything to yield the same exact results as in nature. We can attempt, but to claim exact results is crazy talk.

And whats wrong with my sump? amazing how there are so many arm chair jockeys who cant think outside the box and do something different. It performs the exact way I needed for a rimless tank with the safeties I required of it.

 

[badazztealcobra]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15596496#post15596496 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mr. Thingdoer
What the hell does that mean?
How do you acclimate test the water when your done?
I don't think Salifert makes an "acclimate test."

I test the bag's SG to make sure I've met the target tank's SG.
What else do you suggest I do, test the ORP?

It meant exactly what he said, once youre done with the two hour drip that you use for acclimating make sure you test the water to ensure your water in the acclimating bucket is the exact same as the tank water before transferring the fish. I dont recall ever reading that you tested the acclimated bucket water for SG, just that you did the two hour drip thinking that should get you to .025 from .018 and you were erring on the side of caution by doing the two hour drip.

Personally, mine starts as a drip but turns into a full on stream over time and I would say that I do a 6x changeover on most acclimation arrivals. Im constantly pulling water out of the bucket so its basically the tank water by the time Im done. Then I check SG in the bucket and the tank before transferring.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15596496#post15596496 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mr. Thingdoer
Really?

So I shouldn't run my tank at the EXACT same SG daily?
I guess I wasted my money on that useless refractometer

If you have a small swing of .001 or .002 it wont hurt anything that Ive ever noticed. Its when you have fast swing of numbers that inhabitants have problems. So technically no, you dont need to have the EXACT same SG daily.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15596496#post15596496 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mr. Thingdoer
So I shouldn't aim to maintain an EXACT PH of 8.4?
good, I'll go close my windows.

Just like above, you're going to have PH swings, just make sure that theyre not suge fast swings and everything will be fine. Mine goes from 8.15'ish to 8.42'ish depending on the day, if I have windows open or closed, if my kalk reactor is running low, etc. Not having slow swings (in most parameters, temp, ph, etc..) is WORSE in my opinion, because then when a swing does happen (and it will at some point) the inhabitants arent used to it.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15596496#post15596496 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mr. Thingdoer
So I shouldn't aim to equalize the water of the fish in the bag by acclimating to the EXACT same parameters of the target tank to prevent osmotic shock and other stressors?

Come on now...

I think that everyones trying to say that you need to make sure that the water is the same before transferring. This was the point. All you said in previous posts was that you did a two hour drip and that shouldve been enough and you were erring on the side of caution.

I dont think I read that you did a two hour drip and then tested the water in the acclimation bucket to make sure it matched the DT before transferring it over.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15596496#post15596496 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mr. Thingdoer
I've read "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" cover to cover at least 10 times

I've read "Book of Coral Propagation, Volume 1 Edition 2" cover to cover at least 10 times

I've taken notes at lectures by: Steven Pro, Anthony Calfo, Bob Fenner, Matt Pedersen, Eric Borneman, etc...

I don't need you to tell me to go out and learn about anything.

Thats alot of reading.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15596496#post15596496 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mr. Thingdoer

I've seen your sump, maybe you should take your own advice.

:lol: I dont care who you are, thats the funniest thing Ive read in awhile. :lol:

 

[badazztealcobra]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15596605#post15596605 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FiReBReTHa
And whats wrong with my sump? amazing how there are so many arm chair jockeys who cant think outside the box and do something different. It performs the exact way I needed for a rimless tank with the safeties I required of it.

What does sump design have to do with a tank being rimless ???

 

[Mr. Thingdoer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15596619#post15596619 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by badazztealcobra
It meant exactly what he said, once youre done with the two hour drip that you use for acclimating make sure you test the water to ensure your water in the acclimating bucket is the exact same as the tank water before transferring the fish. I dont recall ever reading that you tested the acclimated bucket water for SG, just that you did the two hour drip thinking that should get you to .025 from .018 and you were erring on the side of caution by doing the two hour drip.

After reading the sentence again I've been able to decipher what he was trying to say.

Instead of:
"next time u acclimate test the water when your done...u might be surpised"

It should have read:
next time u acclimate, test the water when your done...u might be surpised

It was the missing comma that threw me off.


I'm a "measure twice, cut once" type of guy. I don't screw around, and I test everything. If I wasn't going to test the SG after my acclimation, then what's the point of doing the acclimation to begin with?

 

[Pufferpunk]

I've been in this hobby (starting in FW) for over 30 years & have never been exact in anything! I rarely lose a fish & did the bag method acclimation for most of those years.

My tank's temp fluctuates sometimes from 78-83 within 24 hours. Sometimes I feed very heavily & leave the skimmer off after that for 24 hours. I only do WC when I think I haven't done them in a while (that's for SW--FW gets done weeky & very large ones, at that). I can't remember the last time I checked the SG or nitrate in my tanks, it's always the same. If I top off to the same level every day, why should it change?) And since daily doses of VC, my nitrate hasd always been 0. I only check ca, alk & mg & that's about 1x/month to see if I need to change my dosing levels, which I dose daily by hand (same with top offs). I also have wall to wall corals in my tank, another no-no, I've read... I'm about the most un-exact reef keeper I've heard of on this site, yet if any of you have seen my tanks--they're thriving & gorgeous!

So there are many ways to keep a reef & no one should be put down for theirs, if it works for them. I think Mr Thingdoer hit the nail on the head by talking to Glen about the real reason those fish have such a poor sucess rate in captivity & in his tank. I gonna now go look for mine in ny overflow. I think he might have been living in there for a while.

 

[FiReBReTHa]

Lots and lotsa "all year humidity honey" I don't have a canopy so I have quite a bit of evaporation.

 

[badazztealcobra]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15596724#post15596724 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mr. Thingdoer
After reading the sentence again I've been able to decipher what he was trying to say.

Instead of:
"next time u acclimate test the water when your done...u might be surpised"

It should have read:
next time u acclimate, test the water when your done...u might be surpised

It was the missing comma that threw me off.


I'm a "measure twice, cut once" type of guy. I don't screw around, and I test everything. If I wasn't going to test the SG after my acclimation, then what's the point of doing the acclimation to begin with?

Well considering you went off in a post because Matt was missing a comma, I figure you would've added the fact that you test the water before transferring the fish in your original post about doing a two hour acclimation.

Go back and read some of his other posts and I think you'll see the same thing. Its not that he's talking in "Yoda", he just doesn't have the time to be on RC and type out full explanations most of the time.

Always remember that everyone is trying to help, and to take some things with a grain of salt.....

Usually thats whatever Firebretha says. :lol: :lol:

I know that I should probably use [sarcasm] xxxx [/sarcasm] brackets around most of my posts since being sarcastic is just who I am, but I think most of the people on here have figured that out already.

 

[badazztealcobra]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15596782#post15596782 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FiReBReTHa
Lots and lotsa "all year humidity honey" I don't have a canopy so I have quite a bit of evaporation.

My tank has a ton of evap as well (one of the reasons for the pending downsize actually), but that still has nothing to do with a rimless tank affecting your sump design.

I understand your thought in making the sump the way you did, but if you wouldve used a larger sump like was suggested you wouldnt need to have evap come from the fuge and the return section, you couldve had a much larger return section and had all evap occur in that section.

Evap is one of the best ways to cool down the tank and allow you to top off with kalk, thats why you actually want a good amount of evap, its why we blow fans across our sumps and tanks, etc... (I know, real groundbreaking stuff here. )

My new setup is going to be open top (not a rimless tank, but the same thing), this isnt going to affect sump design in the slightest though....

All of this is just personal preference though, so it doesnt really matter, I just wanted to bust your chops a little. :lol:

 

[badazztealcobra]

Im REALLY bored, its my off day from work and I cant do anything outside in this weather. LMAO

Here was Matts original post that got you upset....

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15586234#post15586234 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mm949
.....its possible that's your issue

if the LFS is running a lower salinty its important that u double check it before u add the fish....a 2hr drip unless u are changing out 6x the volume wont correct SG

If you re-read it with a few "tweaks"....

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15586234#post15586234 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mm949
.....its possible that's your issue

if the LFS is running a lower salinty, its important that u double check it before u add the fish....a 2hr drip (unless u are changing out 6x the volume) wont correct SG

I added a comma and two parenthesis and it takes on a whole new meaning. Not exactly Yoda speak by any means, just typing fast and on a forum.

 

[Dana19620]

I feel like you're being battered for this. You are definitely not a newbie, and have acclimated fish in the past without problems, have done your research and have knowledge on what to do.

I firmly believe that fish are not always handled delicately in the capture, handling, and shipment before being placed in the LFS tank. Just because a fish looks healthy in the LFS tank doesn't mean that it is not at it's stress threshold - that one additional move from the LFS to the hobbyist's tank could be the breaking point. Not every fish in a shipment received by the LFS survive. Should we point the blame on the acclimation process? Surely they did it wrong - how else could most of the fish survived (hit of sarcasm here).

Why do many stores like Petco, who have a 3-15 day guarantee on their freshwater fish (I know for sure it is 15 on Betta fish) not have any guarantee on their saltwater fish. Because saltwater fish are not as hardy, they don't want to lose money by replacing fish that have a higher likelihood of dying.

I have only acclimated my fish for an hour - based on the the theories presented on this thread, my fish should have all died because of my acclimation process.

The "expert's" referred to on this post recommend acclimating coral for two hours. I remember when I got my first coral and posted that I acclimated it for one, hour that many of you on the forum came down on me for taking too long to acclimate it.

If the fish had developed ich, there would be empathy and words of encouragement. These fishes sensitivities were not evident through a visual reason - it doesn't mean they didn't have a weakness. Seems along the same lines as people thought years ago that mental illness was possession, or a weak character of the person - only recently has it become obvious that it is biologically based.

You know guys, he already feels bad about losing the fish, as well as having the emotional drain of dealing with a devastated daughter. Instead of arguing with him or trying to lay blame on him let him know you're sorry for his loss.

 

[Mr. Thingdoer]

It's still Yoda even with the comma.

You can basically take everything either before or after the comma and swap it to make it English though.

Let me take a crack at fixing it.

It's important to check the SG of the water because typically fish stores run at Hyposalinity. Unless you change out 6x the volume a 2 hr. drip won't correct the SG. (even though it will no matter how you drip it)

 

[badazztealcobra]

I dont think anyone in the thread "battered" anybody. Everybody here is trying to help.... mm949 asked him his acclimation process to try to make sure this wasnt part of the problem, and then since there were a few pieces of punctuation missing he mis-took it as an attack IMO.

Personally, my acclimations take as long as they take. If I get it from another reefer with very close parameters its a fast process, if its something that got shipped overnight it takes much longer to get them the same.

If youre just doing a small slow drip its completely possible that 2 hours wouldnt be enough to make the water the same in the tank and the bucket. I always start with a slow drip and then slowly loosen the knot in the airline tubing until its a solid stream of water. Afterward I test the water in the bucket to make sure it matches the tank.

Of course we are all sorry for the losses, nobody wants to see fish die in this hobby, thats why we were all trying to make sure all his bases were covered.

Whatever you do, dont give up on them, theyre GREAT little fish, I love mine....