Sps feeding new pappone

trueblackpercula

New member
Hello my fellow brothers

In my quest to provide the best possible living environment to my fish, small polyp stony corals and LPS, I have decided to embark on creating a modified version of the Italian food called pappone. I have had some amazing results with it but came across a French video that was just mind blowing of the results they are achieving with this food. The idea is to elevate you normal parameters so that it is available for the coral to consume as needed when needed.
Also it creates a living environment within the tank that is a natural filtration system that not only cleans and purifies the water but also feeds the entire eco system.
Below is the recipe that took some time to translate and decipher to come up with a dosing amount.

I have all but one ingredient and for some reason it is no longer available in the entire world LOL I have searched high and low and can’t find it. Does anyone in the club have some cyclop ezee? I had a small can and cannot find it. I have no idea what I did with it and now I need it.
If you have some let me know and we can make arrangements for selling or trade.

Below is the ingredients and I have no problem making this for the club if we can find a place to make it. It cost about $25 bucks each batch for 800mls to 900mls depending on the size of the clams and shrimps. So if the club has interest in setting up a play date let me know LOL

enjoy the video simply amazing >>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MfzYwE6lv8

5 Clams medium to large
5 mussels
5 to 6 oysters depends on size
5 shrimp or (prawns) uncooked RAW no tails or shells prawns are better
1 Reef booster from prodibio
1 anchovies very rich in omega 3
Fauna Marin Ultra LPS Grow & Color Medium/Regular Pellet < for LPS
Half a bag of Reef pearls 40 grams or 1.41 size 5-200 MICRONS < for LPS
spirulina flake powder 10 g of Red Algae (Palmaria palmata; Bisck uses Julian Sprung's brand)and/or 10 g of Spirulina, 10 g of Nori (spirulina is what Bisck prefers)
250 g of fish eggs (the smaller the better and should be a saltwater type of fish)
2 teaspoon of Cyclop-eeze
250 g of mysis shrimp
250 g Artemia newly hatched brine shrimp
2 ml of vodka 80 proof clear not flavored
1 teaspoon sugar or 4 grams
200 mls of RO/DI WATER
Mixing in a blender : Methods: Make SURE that all ingredients are the freshest possible and DO NOT use frozen foods (unless it is impossible for you). Make sure everything "live" is rinsed and cleaned before putting it into the blender. Put all the ingredients into the blender and blend for 5 min, wait 2 min for it to cool, 5 more min blending, 2 min of waiting again, then finally another 5 min of blending (the pausing is so that the solution doesn't get too hot and "cook" from the heat of the blender/blades). Pour into cube forms (approx 10 mL each).
Place in freezer or small cubes and feed up to two times a week 5 to 10 ml for every 200 liters or for every 52.83 gallons of water volume.

******BELOW IS SOME MORE INFORMATION FROM THE original PAPPONE******
Procedure: One hour prior to turning off your lights, you have the option of adding Amino acids to the tank*. (For example, 11pm Halides off, add AAs, 12am, actinics off, then add pappone). Take off the cup of your skimmer, but leave the skimmer running (so you dont have a massive drop in O2 levels overnight)<<<< I DON'T DO THIS AND HAVE HAD NO ISSUES AT ALL. After the lights are off, start with only a A ¼ of a cube per WEEK for every 400 L of tank water (approx 100 gallons). Be sure to measure NO3 and PO4 the next morning so that these parameters don't spike after feeding. You can reduce the amount fed if you are having nutrient problems. Also dont forget to put the skimmer cup back on the next morning before the lights go back on. AGAIN I DON'T DO THIS I SEE NO NEED

*If everything is going well. It is good to wait and see how the tank is doing for awhile before trying this. The whole point here is that you don't want to change anything too fast, because nothing good happens quickly in this hobby. (Another method to grind up amino acid pills in the next batch of food; however Bisck found that it sometimes causes diatom outbreaks in his tank
 
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I believe I have a can of the freezedried small micron cyclopeeze I got from Champion lighting.

It's currently in my fridge.

Are you coming to the October meeting?
I can bring it there
 
Why use the vodka and its working well for you that recipe?
Yeah not sure about the Vodka and how it effects the chemistry of the mix. You can try adding ascorbic acid. I use it in my mix. It helps as a preservative and also as a carbon source.
 
I believe I have a can of the freezedried small micron cyclopeeze I got from Champion lighting.

It's currently in my fridge.

Are you coming to the October meeting?
I can bring it there

Sorry probally not but if you send me a pm I can send you PayPal for it or I can make you a batch of my secret stuff and mAil it to you as a trade. Let me know either way.
 
Ok great thanks send PM also if anyone wants some let me know I can make a jar for you or I can make a jar for the club and send it to one person who can then share it with who ever wants it.
 
I'd be interested in a batch potentially. Quick question though, is the carbon source provided by this food a stand alone carbon dosing or should it be supplemented or optional? And second one, is there a feeding schedule you should follow? and should it be the only food used?
 
Ok, no problem.
I still definitely want some pappone!

Wee will get it on the schedule so that all interested club members can learn how to do the process in addition to getting some for their systems.

Teach a man to fish he'll eat for years to come!!
 
Ok so let's put it on the schedule and the club will need to purchase everything including jars.

The French version is better then the original pappone.

Let me know should be fun
 
We were talking about the pappone over the weekend, and I had a question come to mind. Do you just use pappone as your only source of Carbon dosing or do you dose on a regular basis and the pap is just a bit added extra?
 
We were talking about the pappone over the weekend, and I had a question come to mind. Do you just use pappone as your only source of Carbon dosing or do you dose on a regular basis and the pap is just a bit added extra?

i dose prodibio as my carbon dosing and pappone to feed the sps.
 
i dose prodibio as my carbon dosing and pappone to feed the sps.

Which Prodibio product is the carbon? The Biodigest is bactaria. The Bioptim is minerals and "micro nutrients". Not sure what they put in it. Reef Booster is "a finely micronized nutrient supplement". Carbon would need to be something else.
 
Bioptim is the carbon source in prodibio from what I have understood. I've been using it on my tank about 6 months now. Still do a bit of vinegar each day as well.
 
Hello Bill & all Members

Below is a detailed outline of what each product I use and what it does. I have had amazing results using it and have found it to be a very useful additive to my growing reef tank. Some people just don’t realize how much these SPS pull from the water column and keeping 15, 20, even 30 colonies in such a small glass box need all the elements available for them to grow and feed off of.
The Prodibio products are commercial products that can be replicated but I am not sure if the alternatives are any better or worse, But they do work very well and are very inexpensive. I have tried vodka dosing and it works very well to well in fact and if not controlled and monitored you can easily starve out your sps in a short time. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=288714&perpage=25
Below is another method that a lot have come to adopt as well called “Let’s talk about Vodka/sugar dosing”
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1225324
Then there is another called VSV ( vodka sugar vinegar ) this is also know as the glass box design. Now this one in my opinion has a lot going for it as it uses multiple carbon source to seed you tank with that I must admit I would have tried if prodibio didn’t work for me. But as you can see from the article it dose use prodibio in it 
http://glassbox-design.com/2008/achieved-through-observation-and-experimentation/

I hope these help and I have read them all many times over and over and then it finally clicked. It’s not how much or what method you use, but how you use it and controlling it to your benefit is what makes it work for you. I will also say that lighting, temperature and stability are the most critical aspects of keeping a reef tank when dosing a carbon source or not.
I chose to dose a carbon source to control algae, add new strains of good bacteria and at the same time by feeding Pappone allows me to feed the entire system that in return feeds and maintains the tank. Carbon dosing is not for everyone as it does take a trained eye and the knowledge to know when to stop or add more. For example in my 120 gallon system with a 20 gallon sump with lights on for 14 hours a day ramping up and down I feed 10 mls of pappone or what I now call (liquid genesis ) because I have modified it, three to four times a week and have zero nitrates and my PO4 is 0.01 I can do this because I understand what my system can hold as far as nutrient’s import and export are.

I am no expert at all in any of these subjects but sure have learned a lot from reading everything I can find.
Oh I almost forgot to mention, I am on my third week of no water changes and my tank has never looked better. I may do a small water change this weekend but only if I see a spike in nitrates or PO4 if not I will go another week. I agreed with Richie when he talked about not changing water and when changing water over and over we sometimes add trace elements that will build up over time that will in turn poison our systems, < this is another deep conversation that I don’t want to get into today 

There is another method called the triton method and there stuff is really amazing

Please enjoy the below information and when someone is ready to try out my liquid genesis let me know I would love to share it.

Almost forgot to answer the original question that knutez24c asked about. “We were talking about the pappone over the weekend, and I had a question come to mind. Do you just use pappone as your only source of Carbon dosing or do you dose on a regular basis and the pap is just a bit added extra?”

No I do not use Pappone as my carbon source and the reason the vodka and sugar are added to it is for two reasons. First is to preserve the ingredients and second to neutralize the nutrients that are added to the system. I hope this is not to confusing, but in a simple answer and it’s in there to keep it self-sustaining. Also I don’t use the original Pappone anymore and use a modified version of the one I posted above that I now call Liquid genesis because that is what it is LOL

By the way it’s not that hard to make but it does take time to make it, but worth every second when you see your SPS and LPS and fish trying to absorb every micron of it.

Enjoy everyone

Oh by the way anyone in the club have or knows where to get true Oregon Tort? Please let me know

Michael


THE START OF PRODIBIO PROGRAM FOR TRUEBLACKPERCULA
http://www.prodibio.com/fr/product-information-prodibio

• BioDigest
Standard Range : 1 vial for 1 000 l (250 US gal) /15 days
Pro Range : 1 vial for 10 000 l (2 500 US gal) /15 days
BIODIGEST is made up of natural nitrifying, nitrate reducing and facultative bacterial strains selected for their ability to convert ammonia into nitrites, nitrites into nitrates and nitrates into nitrogen.
Biological filtration quickly gets underway thanks to nitrifying bacteria such as Nitrosomonas europaea and Nitrobacter winogradskyi...
Aquarium cleaning by waste matter digestion is helped by the presence of numerous different strains of heterotrophic bacteria present in optimal proportions such as Paracoccus denitrificans and Pseudomonas stuzeri...
These bacteria work together with each strain finishing off the work started by the others. Some are capable of biosynthesizing nitrate reducing enzymes in aerobic conditions. This enables water to be effectively purified, nitrates and phosphates to be reduced and prevents the spread of filamentous algae.
WHY SHOULD THE PRODUCT BE USED EVERY TWO WEEKS?
BIODIGEST is particularly effective in the first two weeks. The speed at which the bacteria develop differs from one strain to another.
BIODIGEST guarantees optimal purification proportions for a fortnight. If you want to speed up the purification process, you should not increase doses but instead should use the product more frequently.

• Bioptim
Standard Range: 1 vial for 200 l (50 US gal) /15 days.
Pro Range: 1 vial for 2 000 l (500 US gal) /15 days
BIOPTIM contains all the microelements needed for aquarium life (selected amino acids, enzymes, natural vitamins (including riboflavin) and a natural plant surface active agent enabling better membrane absorption by cells).
It also provides trace elements: sulphur for proteins, iron for plants and fish blood, cobalt for B vitamins and boron for many products metabolized during cell building, calcium, magnesium, manganese, zinc, molybdenum and potassium.
BIOPTIM is a natural product that affects cellular bio activators. It dynamises the cellular metabolism of most of the bacteria living in marine water aquariums and reinforces the biological reactions by increasing the number of bacteria and therefore optimizing water quality.
BIOPTIM speedily accelerates the digestion of organic matter, reduces the BOD – biological oxygen demand – and therefore contributes to a raised Redox potential.
It also facilitates the elimination of nitrates and phosphates, which are an early warning sign of algae problems, and carbohydrates, and therefore helps to regulate decomposition odors and optimize water quality




• Iodi +
Standard Range : 1 vial for 200 l (50 US gal) /15 days
Pro range 1 vial for 2 000 l (500 US gal) /15 days
Iodine is an essential element and is vital for coral development in closed reef tank environments. However, it is rapidly consumed by the invertebrates and eliminated by the skimmer, the active carbon, the filter and the coralline algae.
IODI+ supplies the hard corals in your aquarium with the iodine they need to grow and for coloration. It also helps them to adapt to lighting variations and neutralizes the excess oxygen produced by zooxanthellae under excessive lighting and therefore combats coral bleaching.
IODI+ is also particularly recommended for Xenia, Anthelia, Clavularia and corallimorphs.

• Reef Booster <<<< This is added to my liquid genisis
Standard Range : 1 vial for 200 l (50 US gal) /15 days
Pro Range1 vial for 2 000 l (500 US gal) /15 days
All types of coral, even those with zooxanthellae, which feed on light, require nutrient supplements.
Reef Booster has been developed in partnership with aquaculture experts based on highly effective products that are used to start up crustacean, mollusk and bivalve larvae.
The product is a complete nutrient supplement containing all the elements required by the invertebrates that feed solely or partly on microplankton and for zooxanthellae carrying coral which need microplankton.
Reef Booster favors the development of corals, clams and micro-fauna and the reduction of nitrates and phosphates by feeding and maintaining anaerobic bacteria on live rocks.
After a few weeks of use, hermatypic corals (Plerogyra and Euphyllia) expand and the ahermatypic polyps (Scleronephthya and Tubastraea) and the Gorgonians flourish. Coral color also stabilises.
Reef Booster contains very high concentrations of the polyunsaturated w3-fatty acid groups which all marine organisms need.
A few drops in fish feed make it more appetizing, making reef booster an excellent solution when starting to feed difficult or recently imported fish.

• Stronti +
Standard Range : 1 vial for 200 l (50 US gal) /15 days
Pro range 1 vial for 2 000 l (500 US gal) /15
Strontium is an essential trace element in reef aquariums and is vital for coral development in closed reef tank environments.
Strontium also stimulates the growth of hard corals and assists in the development of the red and coralline algae that produce the live rock decor. These organisms fix strontium in their skeletons along with calcium, which means that the strontium is in constant demand in aquarium environments.
Trace elements are constantly replenished in the natural ocean environment but the strontium concentration quickly drops in a reef aquarium, meaning that it needs to be offset.
STRONTI+ provides all the strontium needed for optimum and healthy coral, clam and coralline algae growth.
The strontium diminishes proportionally with the calcium in a reef aquarium, so you can gauge the strontium demand by examining the calcium content.

03/19/2014
 
Bioptim is the carbon source in prodibio from what I have understood. I've been using it on my tank about 6 months now. Still do a bit of vinegar each day as well.
From the Prodibio web site

Bioptim, nutrients for bacteria in saltwater
Bioptim provides the BioDigest bacteria with the micronutrients needed to optimally purify saltwater and improve water quality.QUOTE]

That's a kind of vague description of what it is. I would think a carbon source would need to be replenished daily in order to keep the bacterial population fed. May have to question Prodibio further as to exactly what this is. Even with Zeovit, the carbon source is dosed daily.
 
No I do not use Pappone as my carbon source and the reason the vodka and sugar are added to it is for two reasons. First is to preserve the ingredients and second to neutralize the nutrients that are added to the system. I hope this is not to confusing, but in a simple answer and it’s in there to keep it self-sustaining.

I'm not sure the alcohol works as a preservative. I would think it actually starts to break down the proteins, but I'm no chemist. Maybe RHF could answer that in the chemistry forum. But if anyone has made infused vodkas by adding fruit or something else to vodka for flavoring, the way that works is the alcohol breaks down the sugars in the fruit and the flavor enters the solution.

I've been adding citric acid/ascorbic acid or vitamin C to the pappone for that purpose. It's used as a preservative in the food industry. Just normal powdered form added to the mix. It acts as an antioxidant. It is also a carbon source. People have dosed these directly to their tanks as a carbon source.

I think Randy or one of the other strong chemistry people on the Chemistry forum could tell us what the alcohol is doing in your pappone mix.

Post some pics! Haven't seen any in a while :)
 
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