SPS PE and coloring

[Gravesj1s]

Dude you have definately had more than your share of things to go wrong lately.Now the redbugs,wow.You gota catch a break.
Thats the first pic of redbugs ive ever seen.It is unfortuate but does help those of us that haven't seen or know what to look for.Not trying to add to your tasks as it sounds like you got work cut out for ya, but if anyway possible do a full thread.

Appreciate the pics and wish ya' the best of luck -if you need more interceptor you can have my stash.

 

[pascal32]

No worries, so goes life sometimes

4 hours later:

[used a marco lens which for some reason overexposes a bit]

and the Efflo, no sign of redbugs here!

 

[Capt_Cully]

Cool, pix. I did find it curious at first that the coral had not grown much at all in the time lapsed between the 2 photos. Then, as stated in the other thread, I saw the red bugs.

I was amazed at what a potent stressor they can be. I had a particular coral, A. loisette. It was completely stunted and lost it's color due to a red bug infestation. I treated with Interceptor as recommended.

The coral rebounded, there was tremendous growth, and the coloration was stunning. Those little buggers are nasty. But if you treat 3 times with Interceptor over a 3 week period, you'll be amazed at the results.

 

[titoav15]

I'm really glad that interceptor is working for ya, hopefully this will be completely solved in no time!!

 

[oneradtek202]

i should probably take some pics of my SPS up close. Mine are exhibiting symptoms of redbugs i think. Ive had them before, but its hard to tell unless u take pics of the corals with a nice camera and lens

heres my pic i took of my last encounter a few years back

my issue is either AEFW or redbugs

 

[pascal32]

No kidding its hard to tell. we had been looking at this piece for two days and didn't notice till I zoomed in on a picture. think we both need glasses LOL.

took this around Noon, polyps are more open on this piece and several other Acros. it's interesting to note that the Mille's seem unaffected.

Might even be a dash more color, though that could be rainbow glasses of optimism!

pic from this morning (loving using a Macro lens!):

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

awesome pix

 

[tmz]

Thanks for the pics of the red bugs. Certainly look like the problem. What dose of interceptor are you using?

A few thoughts on other questions raised:

Metals unbound. Free metals are harmful but most bind up quickly with refractory organics in an aquarium and most that are introduced via food are already part of an organic. Running gac and good skimming help remove some of the organics that may be holding them.
Low inorganic nitrogen(NO3) or even less likely low inorganic phosphate (PO4 species) might occur in a tank where removal was high say due to gfo or organic carbon dosing but is unlikely ,imo. Surface reef water's hold only .005ppm PO4 and around .1ppm NO3. Deeper water corals or those from more turbid waters in lagoons may need more and may experience significant stress if they are reduced quickly. FWIWI run mine at ,.05ppm PO4 and less than .1ppm NO3.

Even highly autotrophic corals like sps can only go so far with photosynthesis and need some small micron solid foods for organic(CNP) to help them produce or acquire needed amino acids to build peptides and proteins,imo. For example while corals can apparently make some amino acids and don't use all the varieties of amino acids , they can't make aspartic acid and do use quite a bit of it to help in the calcification process. Aspartic acid is also a source of nitrogen and organic carbon so if dosed it should be used sparingly .It may also help if a nitrogen deficiency has occurred in a tank with a low bioload , low feeding and high denitrification. As my nitrates have dropped a bit lower than I'd like them to be for a mixed reef , I started dosing some aspartic acid ( 1grm per 100 gallons ) 1x per week a few weeks ago. No noticeable changes to date.

As for alkalinity shifts up or down ,they seem to be harmful to sps in particular ,ime. FWIW I run alk around 9.5 to 10 dkh .

 

[pascal32]

I dosed 1/2 tablet for 51-100 lb dog. crushed, stirred into about 1.5 cups of tank water and slowly poured into a high flow area of the sump.

TMZ - You sound on the fence about the possibility of having low nitrogen...how could I check for this?

Also it sounds like you are advocating feeding of SPS - is there a specific blend you feel is beneficial?

Just tested my Nitrate with Elos kit at 1

 

[tmz]

Definitely on the fence re nitrogen deficiencies. Many who use the zeo systems advocate dosing all kinds of things( such as trace elements, potassium and aminos) but they are working at 0 PO4 and NO3 values. They also push for lower range ph values, probably to slow growth in these somewhat anemic systems. The only test is nitrate of which I'm aware. Obviously ammonia and nitrite are also indicators but not likely in your tank. One ppm should be plenty of nitrate.

I use coral frenzy and some cyclopeeze but any food with very small micron zooplankton should do. Ideally , larvae from fauna growing in the tank of refugium would work as well. I'm also trying small amounts of aspartic acid.

 

[tent boy]

I have been hesitant in getting more into sps because it seems like red bugs are a ongoing problem. Are they coming from frags that weren't dipped? Are they in a system like ick and just attack when the system is stressed? Are there fish that are reef safe that eat them? Seems like everyone uses interceptor.

 

[tmz]

I have none;never have . Just lucky I guess. I do keep some holichoeres , macropharyngodon, and parchellinus wrasses. Perhaps that has something to do with the absence of red bugs. Just like cryptocaryon irritans (ich) the bugs have to come into the system with an infected organism. imo. I don't quarantine and don't dip a new coral with intereceptor and have never had to use it on a tank but probably should set up a quarantine tank for new specimens at this point.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

I've never had red bugs or had to use intercept, either. I dip all new SPS in TMPCC. To the best of my knowledge every type of coral has some kind of predator so preds aren't a good reason not have an aquarium full of living corals.

 

[faze07hd]

Blurry, Thanks for starting this thread. I, myself, have some coloring and growth issues and i also have very low phosphates and nitrates. I must admit, that i dont feed my corals like i should. This deff cleared some things up for me.

 

[pascal32]

second treatment started today. same as before - remove GFO, Carbon, Sock filters. plugged skimmer air intake and adjusted so its moving water, but not skimming. mixed 1/2 tablet to treat my 175 ish gallons. mixed with a cup or two of tank water. heated in the microwave a bit and stirred for 10 minutes or so. never did fully dissolve.

wait 6 hours and 20 gallon water change and fresh carbon!

 

[pascal32]

Blurry, Thanks for starting this thread. I, myself, have some coloring and growth issues and i also have very low phosphates and nitrates. I must admit, that i dont feed my corals like i should. This deff cleared some things up for me.

It's hard to say. I can say that color has been coming back since the interceptor treatment. I've also noticed increase polyp extension to before treatment.

I'm sure the feeding helps, getting the Mg back up, at the end of the day, the redbugs are most likely the biggest issue i had!

have you looked for redbugs throughout SPS, or flatworm eggs at the base of SPS?

 

[iamwrasseman]

Pascal,the pills disolve quickly in alcohol, i used vodka !

and .................HAPPY NEW YEAR !

 

[faze07hd]

It's hard to say. I can say that color has been coming back since the interceptor treatment. I've also noticed increase polyp extension to before treatment.

I'm sure the feeding helps, getting the Mg back up, at the end of the day, the redbugs are most likely the biggest issue i had!

have you looked for redbugs throughout SPS, or flatworm eggs at the base of SPS?

Ya I have looked and seen nothing... I admit, that i havent been feeding my corals though.

 

[Gravesj1s]

From what Im getting is that you cant really spot some of these bugs due to there extremely small size.Only when taken with a macro lens and zoomed in did they get noticed.
I was sorta thinking about this realizing most people probably dont have such a lens.I think a decent magifying glass would work to detect the small bugs.

On another note, I cant help think that if a tank has such a low reading of nitrate & phosphate that looking at carbon as a limiting source is much more likely than nitrate & phosphate.
Looking at the Redfield Ratio (carbon/nitrogen/phosphours
C/N/P: macro algae C:550parts/N:60parts/1part
C/N/P: bacteria C:116parts/16/parts/1part
-Sorry Im to lazy to look up any others.
I cant help think that if nitrate and phosphate are thought to be so low to cause issues you'd certainly have to look at carbon as limiting factor long before nitrate & phosphate.
Obviouly not talking quantities here just in what proportions.

I use rotifiers for feeding sps ,they are a bit smaller than cyclopeeze.Frozen cubes ,shotgun blast works for me and seen them consumed by the few sps I have.

 

[tmz]

Autotrophic corals and algae don't use much if any organic carbon; they make their own via photosynthesis and add it to the tank. Think exudate and slime.
I'm not familiar with the ratios you posted but the Redfield ratio is from plankton measurements he made across several oceans and dates back to 1934.
I've seen various ratios for specific bacteria and they vary some species to species as they do for algae. For me it's enough to know that organic carbon,C, is generally :7x the nitrogen,N, and the N is :about 15 xs the P,phosphorous.
Typically a limiting dearth of N and/or P would leave excess organic carbon in the tank since the heterotrophic bacteria that consume and respire these nutrients wane without at least some N and P.