MegIsAwesome06
New member
This thread is really interesting. As a noob, I have a fish bucket list, but will not get them until I'm a pro. (Years and years from now) I'm learning a lot from this thread! [emoji38]
STOP Selling These Species! (rant)
- Thread starter SoloChromis
- Start date
that Fish Guy
Frag Swap Crusader!
SoloChromis
New member
I appreciate it :beer: Figured it was something a lot of people here felt strongly about (no matter which "side" they belonged to). I think the issue with goniopora was more ignorance than anything. People simply didn't know which factor/s were leading to their poor survival rates in captivity, and what it was exactly that could be improved upon to help the goniopora thrive. This is a very similar case as the moorish idol. They don't get too large, they don't get extremely aggressive/predatory, yet very few succeed in getting these fish to last for more than a year or 2 under what they determine are the best conditions. There are speculations that your tank has to be pristine, others speculate that the water needs to be a bit "dirty", dirtier than any ideal SPS environment, some claim they will only do well in pairs, while others say they'll rip each other to shreds and pairing them really shouldn't be attempted. There's of course the sponge theory (if I can call it that
) that their natural diet is composed primarily of sponge (some say it's a specific sponge, possibly being green in color), and not even the best quality angelfish food will sustain them longterm, whereas others say it's more about how often you feed them than *what* it is you're feeding them. I didn't put moorish idols on my list because I do believe one day, like goniopora, we will figure out what exactly the key is in keeping them for close to their natural life span, but for now it's mainly speculation and little bits of solid information trickling in here and there. Compare this to say, a panther grouper, who we as hobbyists *know* what it is that they require to live happily and healthily, and what it is about this species that makes them incompatible with the vast majority of personal tanks out there. Thanks for the feedback again, and I may create another thread concerning this topic :wave:
SoloChromis
New member
Good to here she went to a good home, and it's really awesome that you would set up a whole other tank for the sake of saving an animal, there's not enough people like that :beer: Vlamingii tangs in particular seem to be particularly intelligent and gentle, which makes it all the more sad when you see how many are put in compromised situations because people simply don't know (or care) what they require to thrive. How big is the pond?
I hate killing or having fish or corals die also........but it's also how we learn. Thankfully we have forums where we can share what works and doesn't work. And it's the hobbist that sometimes leads the way to better and more cost effective ways of doing things. Aquaculture was for the hobbist.
Unfortunately look at the lionfish and python problem and you can blame the hobbist.
The way I see it is you won't protect what you don't love and you don't love what you don't know. It's a double egde sword. The more people who get into the hobby, the more demand you have for these fish. But now you have more people who love these fish and will want to protect them. Hopefully we don't get to the white rhino situation.
Unfortunately look at the lionfish and python problem and you can blame the hobbist.
The way I see it is you won't protect what you don't love and you don't love what you don't know. It's a double egde sword. The more people who get into the hobby, the more demand you have for these fish. But now you have more people who love these fish and will want to protect them. Hopefully we don't get to the white rhino situation.
Solution: it's the smart phone age, so there is no excuse for not searching info on an impulse buy while standing at the LFS. There should be a sign in every LFS that says "research all information given to you today online while you wait". That promotes reputable stores, knowledgable staff, and informed consumers while eliminating impulse buys and shady business practices.
Lol, while I mostly agree with this, there are some of us who do not have one. I have seen first hand how addicted people are to their cell phones. I for one refuse to own one. I am bad enough with my kindlefire.
Shelley
This post should be titled "STOP BUYING THESE FISH". They wouldn't import them if they didn't sell.
Please don't propose to regulate a business owner because you don't like watching noobs buy these things. We have more than enough regulation and bureaucratic nonsense that comes with it.
I know, you care about these fish but put things in perspective. The last thing we want in this hobby are more rules from the government.
Please don't propose to regulate a business owner because you don't like watching noobs buy these things. We have more than enough regulation and bureaucratic nonsense that comes with it.
I know, you care about these fish but put things in perspective. The last thing we want in this hobby are more rules from the government.
"Don't walk past something that is wrong" - we can speak up when we know or even think we know a fish shouldn't be sold, or is being misrepresented by our LFS.
pledosophy
Active member
To be honest, I kinda want a horse shoe crab tank. I just don't have the space, but they are pretty awesome to watch.
SnowManSnow
Member
? How do we measure mortality rate once purchased? Ummmmmm it's 100%. Is there a 3 year rule or something???
Small species tend to live about 3-5 years, naturally. Larger ones go 10 or more. The question I ask is whether all these species should be sent to every store as a matter of course---or whether some should be a special order only. I keep one of the species listed, a golden domino damsel, and have no troubles, but I have room and a rockwork specifically designed for him.
I think as a hobby we could do more to educate people about setting up. We can't stop stores from selling what comes in. But we can prepare people who want to keep marine tanks---we've tried, I know; but we do actually do some good.
Maybe if we created some 'model tank populations' for certain sizes and shapes and put them out there as a file, so that people would go shopping with a better idea what they should be looking for, and how they should set up to do that well. Like a model clown tank, with or without nem, with parameters, feeding, lighting, size, etc, rather than leaving it all 'mix and match' out of what the lfs happened to have this week.
I think as a hobby we could do more to educate people about setting up. We can't stop stores from selling what comes in. But we can prepare people who want to keep marine tanks---we've tried, I know; but we do actually do some good.
Maybe if we created some 'model tank populations' for certain sizes and shapes and put them out there as a file, so that people would go shopping with a better idea what they should be looking for, and how they should set up to do that well. Like a model clown tank, with or without nem, with parameters, feeding, lighting, size, etc, rather than leaving it all 'mix and match' out of what the lfs happened to have this week.
sigshane
New member
What's a horseshoe crab tank? I have one in my FOWLR that I spend extended periods of time watching. And yeah, they are little acrobats at times.
SoloChromis
New member
A tank that caters to the specific needs of a horseshoe crab, so probably like a sand bar biotope-type tank. Lots of sand, minimal amount of rock/decor.
Wow.............. when did having a fish tank, just mean..... having a fish tank. Your either enjoy it as a hobby or you don't. You either like aquariums or you like golf, You either have tons of cash to throw down on an ELOS system or your poor and you have a 55 gallon you got from Petco, you either have FOWLR or live corals, You either have LED's or metal halides, sump or no sump, sand or bare bottom, R/O or tap water, damsels to cycle a tank or fish less cycle, mandarin dragonet that eats pellets or mandarin dragonet that is starving, keeping tangs or getting yelled at for having them, additives that work or additives that are just snake oil, fish that should be sold or fish that should be banned. Jesus..... it almost makes the hobby unenjoyable really.
I thought this forum was about learning how to keep a successful marine aquarium and enjoying it?
Spend more time enjoying the hobby and less time trying to re-invent it......
I thought this forum was about learning how to keep a successful marine aquarium and enjoying it?
Spend more time enjoying the hobby and less time trying to re-invent it......
CHSUB
"Certified Hobby Expert"
sure i get it, it's a hobby like golf, and i love golf. I play every chance i have and when i'm done with the golf balls i toss them in the trash; and when i done with my fish i flush them down the toil......well, maybe it's not just a hobby and we should have the responsibility to care for the animals we buy and keep; at least that's how i see it!!!!
CHSUB, True and yes you stand correct in being responsible for the animals you keep. That being said, its much easier to care for a Golden Retriever, Cat, Parakeet, or Box Turtle. Fish are on a different end of the spectrum. The variables are far to great, and it can be very difficult to re create that eco system without loss, trial and error. Dogs and cats don't die when you treat for fleas, or not eat just because. Thats just my opinion though.
SoloChromis
New member
I enjoy this hobby plenty, believe me, if I didn't I wouldn't bother even posting something like this. Yes, this is a hobby, YES it should absolutely be enjoyed, as if it's not being enjoyed it's not at all worth the money, time, research and maintenance that goes along with making this hobby worth doing longterm. I'm fully aware that this is a hobby and I'm fully aware the definition of a hobby, in case that's what you were questioning. The bottom line is this... we as hobbyists are absolutely responsible and obligated to try to provide the best environment for these animals as we can, given the knowledge that is so readily available these days. If you can't see my point here, than you're not the kind of person I care to interact with
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