Daltonbilecki
Member
Its not really the mortality rate that bugs me its the fact that every single fish taken from the wild wether it makes it to adult hood or not decreases wild populations.
STOP Selling These Species! (rant)
- Thread starter SoloChromis
- Start date
IUfan
Member
Yeah, in an ideal world, Bali Aquarich will keep up the good work they are doing with captive breeding and maybe one day we can have a much broader spectrum of captive bred fish to choose from.
When I started, I made a conscious effort to choose captive bred/captive raised, I guess most of my fish actually are, then just a few species that aren't available as captive bred/raised.
P.S. I'm so confused by the pictures of dead fish laying everywhere, and on plates? Did I miss a part of this thread that explains those?
When I started, I made a conscious effort to choose captive bred/captive raised, I guess most of my fish actually are, then just a few species that aren't available as captive bred/raised.
P.S. I'm so confused by the pictures of dead fish laying everywhere, and on plates? Did I miss a part of this thread that explains those?
I don't know what is going on with the picture of the yellow tangs. There's no accompanying article and the image quality is low, suggesting it was simply pulled from a website. It could have been for research, an environmental issue, etc., who knows.
My picture of the unicorn tang platter is what it is and more so mocking the suggestion, especially the comment below it, that no fish should be removed from the ocean. Millions of people rely on fish to survive. Sustainable fishing works. There's a lot of fish in the sea as long as we don't exploit a species they will be just fine. The Bangaii Cardinal is a perfect example of exploitation. Meanwhile Gulf Red Snapper is a perfect example of fishery managers setting bag limits and seasons to maintain sustainability. If you truly believe no fish should be removed from the ocean then only buy captive bred fish and no more tuna sandwiches or sushi for you!
Do I believe more needs to be done in terms of sustainability? You bet. That includes fish collection for the aquarium hobby, however, we're a blip on the radar when it comes to problems with our oceans. IMO, the big problems are from commercial overfishing (especially tuna) and pollution. But that's a topic for a different thread.
CHSUB
"Certified Hobby Expert"
research?????? who kills that many fish for research? yellow tangs, over 300 and many other fish, were pulled from a dumpster in Hawaii at a fish collector's warehouse.
Saltz Creep
New member
IUfan
Member
STOP Selling These Species! (rant)
Cuzza, you are absolutely right, far bigger issues with the ocean right now, overfishing, shark fin soup-ageddon and pollution to name a few.
I love this hobby, and have been in SW alone for over 4 years. Love it. But think as a group we need to look at ways we can make a difference to help the environment and the natural reefs, because over time the small impact we have will slowly make an effect.
I gave this a lot of thought, but what if certain species of fish and coral, required a license. A license easily obtained by completing a test online, 25 multiple choice questions just like a theory test for your drivers license, and then given a membership # to print out or mailed out to you.
Maybe any Captive Bred fish are obtainable without a license, so nothing changes there, new hobbyists are still able to get in on the spot but there choice is limited, and if they want to progress in the hobby they just have to learn a few basic things and fill out the test online. This could help companies committed to captive breeding like ORA, sustainable aquatics and Bali Aquarich, by increasing demand for more captive bred species to sell without the need of a license, and would increase success for new hobbyists as they would first get into reefing with more appropriate fish choices like bulletproof clownfish and gobies.
It makes a lot of sense to me, but this is corporate America so I'm sure there's something I'm missing.
Cuzza, you are absolutely right, far bigger issues with the ocean right now, overfishing, shark fin soup-ageddon and pollution to name a few.
I love this hobby, and have been in SW alone for over 4 years. Love it. But think as a group we need to look at ways we can make a difference to help the environment and the natural reefs, because over time the small impact we have will slowly make an effect.
I gave this a lot of thought, but what if certain species of fish and coral, required a license. A license easily obtained by completing a test online, 25 multiple choice questions just like a theory test for your drivers license, and then given a membership # to print out or mailed out to you.
Maybe any Captive Bred fish are obtainable without a license, so nothing changes there, new hobbyists are still able to get in on the spot but there choice is limited, and if they want to progress in the hobby they just have to learn a few basic things and fill out the test online. This could help companies committed to captive breeding like ORA, sustainable aquatics and Bali Aquarich, by increasing demand for more captive bred species to sell without the need of a license, and would increase success for new hobbyists as they would first get into reefing with more appropriate fish choices like bulletproof clownfish and gobies.
It makes a lot of sense to me, but this is corporate America so I'm sure there's something I'm missing.
Licences, permission, government oversight. Yeah that's a recipe for success.
The way y'all are talking sounds very intrusive into our lives. We don't need government or tests. People have free will and liberty is sometimes ugly, fat, lazy uneducated and wonderful.
Unfortunately high turn over keeps prices reasonable and people eating. Especially in the places that collect the fish and corals.
Your holier than thou attitude is unbelievable. Y'all need to stay out of my aquarium.
The way y'all are talking sounds very intrusive into our lives. We don't need government or tests. People have free will and liberty is sometimes ugly, fat, lazy uneducated and wonderful.
Unfortunately high turn over keeps prices reasonable and people eating. Especially in the places that collect the fish and corals.
Your holier than thou attitude is unbelievable. Y'all need to stay out of my aquarium.
that Fish Guy
Frag Swap Crusader!
The way I see it is we are all responsible. If there is not a market for it they will not sale it. Education is the only way. It is up to the consumer, us, to know what we are buying. Do not impulse buy! Period! I went to my LFS, almost 4 hours one way, to get a male green mandarin. The store employee tried to explain to me that the one I wanted was a female. Told me it did not have the long top fin of a male. I pointed out to the newbie employee that the females are much smaller, and that the "topfin" was simple lying down on his back. I hope he learned something. And my new mandarin is now fat. Thanks to Paul's feeder, copepods and the fact that this little guy loves tiny bits of clam! Just lucky on that.
It would be great if all LFS were in it first for the love of the hobby. Not the dollar. Well it is late, hopefully I have not offended anyone in my tired state,
Shelley
It would be great if all LFS were in it first for the love of the hobby. Not the dollar. Well it is late, hopefully I have not offended anyone in my tired state,
Shelley
IUfan
Member
STOP Selling These Species! (rant)
Sound a bit paranoid here, I'm not trying to take away your guns, relax haha.
Doesn't have to be government based, would just be an organization implementing a few rules. A small multiple choice test is not much to ask in return for being able to buy whatever species they pluck from the reef. If your getting into this hobby with how much time we all dedicate to it, it would be a very small ask. And remember you'd still be able to buy captive bred fish without which may increase demand for more captive bred species.
Those collection areas that are built on the SW fish trade, well they will have to adapt and learn to captive breed more of the fish in that area.
I'm not taking a "I'm holier than thou" stance, I'm meeting a passion for my hobby, reef keeping and also a passion for protecting the environment, and seeing if there's perhaps some solutions we can discuss trough here, that's all.
Sound a bit paranoid here, I'm not trying to take away your guns, relax haha.
Doesn't have to be government based, would just be an organization implementing a few rules. A small multiple choice test is not much to ask in return for being able to buy whatever species they pluck from the reef. If your getting into this hobby with how much time we all dedicate to it, it would be a very small ask. And remember you'd still be able to buy captive bred fish without which may increase demand for more captive bred species.
Those collection areas that are built on the SW fish trade, well they will have to adapt and learn to captive breed more of the fish in that area.
I'm not taking a "I'm holier than thou" stance, I'm meeting a passion for my hobby, reef keeping and also a passion for protecting the environment, and seeing if there's perhaps some solutions we can discuss trough here, that's all.
CStrickland
New member
It's understandable that some folks feel a bit paranoid. It was only a couple months ago that PIJAC had everyone grabbing pitch forks over NOAA adding some species to the threatened list under the endangered species act. Imo those articles about how the gov't was gonna kick your door in and take your coral away did real harm to the hobby by setting up an us vs. them situation where really we all have the same goals. Some people really dug their heels in over all that, and aren't going to want to hear about any regulation period.
Not trying to reopen that can of worms, just giving some background re bad blood with regulations
Not trying to reopen that can of worms, just giving some background re bad blood with regulations
My point is who are we to tell or question another grown person because "we" think, feel or know they shouldn't by a certain fish.
I'm all for sustainability and responsible reef keeping but there are those who also believe we shouldn't have the right to even take or keep anything from the ocean or nature in general.
You may think they are extremists but to me y'all are close in position.
Who determines who is qualified. Just look at the tang argument.
My problem isn't you will be coming for my fish or corals, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, it's the fact you think it's okay to question a grown person to determine whether or not you think they should be allowed to buy a fish.
As for my guns I ain't worried. As they say "from my cold dead hands." [emoji1]
I'm all for sustainability and responsible reef keeping but there are those who also believe we shouldn't have the right to even take or keep anything from the ocean or nature in general.
You may think they are extremists but to me y'all are close in position.
Who determines who is qualified. Just look at the tang argument.
My problem isn't you will be coming for my fish or corals, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, it's the fact you think it's okay to question a grown person to determine whether or not you think they should be allowed to buy a fish.
As for my guns I ain't worried. As they say "from my cold dead hands." [emoji1]
CStrickland
New member
Personally, I think that if people knew more about the fish they wouldn't buy them. I remember when it was totally normal to go into a pet store and buy a puppy from a puppy mill. I think most people nowadays wouldn't do that, but when I was a kid that's how you got a dog. We always got ours from the pound but that wasn't the norm. Then people learned about that stuff from articles in the media and made better choices. I read about the tangs chsub posted on the humane society website, it was a big drama on the island. But really, fish aren't as cute as puppies so it's tougher. I mean, we eat them.
Also I hate how "they" "tell" me I can't drink and drive. I'm a really good driver and haven't crashed ever. And if I say my kid doesn't have to wear a helmet on my motorcycle, or get his measles shot nobody oughta say different. Lol
Also I hate how "they" "tell" me I can't drink and drive. I'm a really good driver and haven't crashed ever. And if I say my kid doesn't have to wear a helmet on my motorcycle, or get his measles shot nobody oughta say different. Lol
IUfan
Member
Hahaha this made me laugh.
So you think it's totally fine for someone to go into PetCo, buy a 10 gallon tank setup, and buy a clown tang? I don't! It's his right, sure, but it's not going to be a very successful venture into the hobby, and the welfare of the fish is at risk.
My point is that a license system would be designed to actually help the new aquarists and beginners by teaching them a few basics and starting them with much easier to keep fish.
It was an idea thought of in good intentions but clearly has some flaws, perception being one of them.
You are mixing person with society. 1st, nothing wrong with drinking and driving. Every thing wrong with driving drunk. They are not the same thing. 2nd, helmets are a personal choice. Good choice but if I don't want to and it effects my health or my child's health nobody should be able to make me. 3rd, vaccinations effect those around me.
Ah, the unintended consequences of good intentions. Look at the notion that everyone should own a home or everyone should go to college. Both outcomes have not been good.
What?
