Stylophora is pale on underside

[Reefer1991]

What's up guys, so I decided to take a dive into the world of sps a few days ago. I got 2 monti caps, a stylo, and a stellata montipora. Everything is looking great but I noticed the stylos polyps are clearish on the underside but they are also extended more than the rest. The stellata montis polyps are bright green on one side and clearish on the other. Are they still adjusting to my tank or is there something I can do to correct this?
Tank specs
Temp: 76-78
Salinity: 1.026
Cal: 420
Alk:8
Mag:1270
Ph:8-8.1
The stylo is in high flow 12 inches below the surface and the monti is in med flow and 12 inches below. 1 full spectrum 165 w led with actinics and 2 165w actinic leds blackboxes about 10 inches from the surface. I have the full spectrum one up to about 10% while everything else is on the lowest setting.

 

[Bpb]

That's normal. The polyps on the bottom don't receive any light so they don't have much pigment even on my t5ho tank the underside of my stylo is white with polyps extended a good 1/2"


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[Radioheadx14]

In my experience its a combo from low nutrients and alk swings. I think the alk swings stress it out, and the low nutrients make the non-photosynthetic heavy parts die out.

 

[jda]

It is the lights. LEDs do this to SPS as they grow. As they grow, they can start to die from the base up and even the undersides where all that is alive is the first inch or two or three of the tips. This is not you, but the lights.

You will get some of this from T5 and MH, not nearly to the same degree - the SPS usually have color still, just a bit weaker. They polyps will usually be alive and come out. You can still see colonies the size of basketballs under MH that have not started to die from the base up.

Even though this happens, it will not happen in a few days. Did these come from an LED tank? If so, then that is what is happening.

 

[Reefer1991]

Even though this happens, it will not happen in a few days. Did these come from an LED tank? If so, then that is what is happening.

Thanks for the response. I'm not sure if they were under leds before but I bought them from wwc. So am I pretty much screwed unless I buy halides? I have seen a lot of nice sps tanks with leds but maybe they're running halides in the mix. And the stylo isn't dead on the underside, just lacking color. The polyps are actually extended more than the other polyps that have good color. The monti is what worries me since it's the one side of the coral, not the underside.

Bpb, that's good to hear, hopefully mines fine. Do the polyps on the underside of yours extend more than the ones receiving more light? Thanks for the response.

Radioheadx14, they have only been in the tank for a few days but my alk has been stable at 8 so I don't think it is that unless it was from the shock of just entering my tank with a different alkalinity than in the bag it was shipped.

 

[Bpb]

Yes the polyps on the underside extend 2-3x as much as the ones receiving direct light. And my alk is ridiculously stable as I use a calcium reactor with a masterflex pump.

You're not screwed and you can grow great looking sps with LEDs. Most of the better looking led tanks are using t5ho supplements though. And those that aren't typically use double the recommended number of led panels, OR just have carefully photographed specimens that are flattering


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[Reefer1991]

Most of the better looking led tanks are using t5ho supplements though. And those that aren't typically use double the recommended number of led panels, OR just have carefully photographed specimens that are flattering


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I have the 3 black boxes over a 90 gallon so almost 500 watts which is 5.5 watts per gallon. I have them all on the lowest setting though. Would you recommend I raise the intensity? Like I said, I have the white on about 10% and all the actinics on the lowest setting.

 

[peiloy3196]

I dont think its an intensity thing but more of a point of source that the light comes from with the LED's. With T5's and MH's there is a larger point of source and so there is less shadowing therefore the coral is more uniformly lit.

 

[jda]

You are not screwed, but you have to know the limitations of your lights, of which there are several. You do not need a different light grow caps and stylos. This is going to continue to happen to a degree. You will get even more issues as the coral grow. These lights are not going to grow nice colonies of most types of acropora - you can grow some pretty big, others so-so and some of the more difficult ones might not make it past a golf ball. Some of this is the light quality lacking the lower spectrum and some true UV while some of it is the lack of multidirectional light allowing the bases and undersides to die. You can probably get to 70% of an elite acropora tank with these lights if you choose the specimens wisely - this might be good enough and you might not ever know the difference. If you want more, you are going to have to choose a serious SPS light - these folks know the difference and use large wattage T5s (lots of bulbs or overdriven) or MH.

The folks who say that they supplement their LEDs with T5 are actually the other way around, but nobody thinks of it this way. The T5s were the missing link and what made the tank better - they are the superior light. The LEDs supplement the T5s. Which makes somebody wonder why they keep the inferior lights on the tank at all when they know that they are not good enough alone...

 

[Reefer1991]

I dont think its an intensity thing but more of a point of source that the light comes from with the LED's. With T5's and MH's there is a larger point of source and so there is less shadowing therefore the coral is more uniformly lit.

What would you guys recommend I do? I do want to be able to grow nice colonies of acros and stylos so should I buy a t5 and put that above the tank with the leds? Take away one of the leds and replace with t5? I put a lot of time and money into this tank so I want to make sure Ive got adequate lighting for my corals.

 

[zsuman101]

You are not screwed, but you have to know the limitations of your lights, of which there are several. You do not need a different light grow caps and stylos. This is going to continue to happen to a degree. You will get even more issues as the coral grow. These lights are not going to grow nice colonies of most types of acropora - you can grow some pretty big, others so-so and some of the more difficult ones might not make it past a golf ball. Some of this is the light quality lacking the lower spectrum and some true UV while some of it is the lack of multidirectional light allowing the bases and undersides to die. You can probably get to 70% of an elite acropora tank with these lights if you choose the specimens wisely - this might be good enough and you might not ever know the difference. If you want more, you are going to have to choose a serious SPS light - these folks know the difference and use large wattage T5s (lots of bulbs or overdriven) or MH.

The folks who say that they supplement their LEDs with T5 are actually the other way around, but nobody thinks of it this way. The T5s were the missing link and what made the tank better - they are the superior light. The LEDs supplement the T5s. Which makes somebody wonder why they keep the inferior lights on the tank at all when they know that they are not good enough alone...

word..... best answer ever. i use radions with t5s on my living room reef. my frag tank in the basement has a radium 20k over it and the quality and growth rate are off the chart on the frag tank. and it took me a year to really dial in the radion t5 combo. halides rule period. so now that im succesful with the radions im dumping them and biting the $ 1000 giessman fixture bullet and calling it done. we reefers are wierd as i said i got it dialed in so now im going too change it. goin old school again

 

[Reefer1991]

word..... best answer ever.

I agree, thank you Jda for the detailed response. I really appreciate it. I looked at the giessman fixture and although its an awesome fixture, Im not ready to spend that much lol (I wish). Right now I'm thinking about getting a cheaper t5 fixture and just add that to my current lighting. For now I'm going to watch the coral and see how they do over the next couple weeks since they've only been in the tank since Tuesday. Thank you all for your help!

 

[Reefer1991]

Well I think I may have pinpointed my problem (other than leds). I just went out and got new test kits and the new kit is reading .025 nitrates so I have very little nutrients in the water. They're both salifert kits, the one is a year old though. The old one is saying I have around 2-5 ppm so I thought my levels were perfect..... guess not. I'm thinking about getting some coral food from polyp lab or would feeding more mysis and whatnot suffice?

 

[jda]

That is MORE than enough. Anything just above zero is fine. The ocean as barely detectable nitrates and phosphates. Getting more of these will not help you all that much. I am not saying that it will hurt, but this is not going to be a magic solution.

 

[Piper27]

I think jda has some good info, but the op has only had a few sps pieces for a few days now. Recommending light changes to the op's tank isn't really needed imo. Especially since we have had no pictures of these corals and they have only been in the tank for a few days. I would let the op decide if LEDs are not enough when the time comes. For now focusing on the basics of sps would be key.

Op, I would give them some time. Nothing happens fast with sps. Can we get some good pictures of the corals please? What size tank do you have? halidesThey and t5 are the best we can use right now though, I have seen friends grow frags into monster colonies with some evergrow led units. They worked nearly as good as halides but the only difference was a few colors were not as good and shading does eventually happen. It worked for them because they chose all the right spectrums and bulbs themselves and understood what intensity the corals could use and needed. I normally don't defend LEDs but they definatly will work if you have the patience and understanding of how they work and how to work them. I don't, so I use halides and t5.

You have three units over the tank and have all of them on the lowest setting? I would guess that's not much light. Everyone I know runs blues near the high end and slowly ramps the whites and some of the colored bulbs up until the corals look like they are happy which is different for each tank. 10 percent seems very low though. Anyways my stylo colonies always had light undersides where no direct light was and polyps were not colored up and stretched slightly longer than the rest. Common experience I would say.

 

[Piper27]

That is MORE than enough. Anything just above zero is fine. The ocean as barely detectable nitrates and phosphates. Getting more of these will not help you all that much. I am not saying that it will hurt, but this is not going to be a magic solution.

I also agree with this. Just make sure you feed quality frozen food and feed as much as you can while keeping nitrate in a low range, coral food should not be needed especially in a tank with not many corals that does have fish.

 

[zsuman101]

Well I think I may have pinpointed my problem (other than leds). I just went out and got new test kits and the new kit is reading .025 nitrates so I have very little nutrients in the water. They're both salifert kits, the one is a year old though. The old one is saying I have around 2-5 ppm so I thought my levels were perfect..... guess not. I'm thinking about getting some coral food from polyp lab or would feeding more mysis and whatnot suffice?

i wouldnt trust the salifert no3 test kit ... it is horrid, their po4 kit eats it also. i cant determine what shade of pink i have so i tossed it , as far as the po4 kit , it always says im at 0, i know better. i changed to red sea pro kits for everything, definitely much better kits,... good luck n stuff...zsu

 

[Piper27]

Salifert nitrate kit is not that bad if you can read the difference. It reads low numbers well and consistent. If you look at the vial from the side with the vial away from the card so light is behind it it's easy to see the color, I am kind of color blind and I don't have trouble with the new cards. The new cards have s little better color difference. I don't know why they say put it on the card. The po4 kit on the other hand I wouldn't use for an sps tank.

 

[jda]

Salifert test kit for N and P is good to just see if the water is clear. If it is, then you are in good shape, but you have no idea what the actual number is. If you want to know a real number you have to get ultra-low Hannah test kits - this is really of no consequence, though since low but not zero is good enough.

My P shows clear on Salifert and is about 3-5 on Hannah ppb, or about .01 ppm. On nitrate, it is also clear though the side and is about .4 to .5 ppm. Both of these are more than enough to grow and color nice coral and also low enough to not have to worry about them.

 

[Reefer1991]

Op, I would give them some time. Nothing happens fast with sps. Can we get some good pictures of the corals please? What size tank do you have?

You have three units over the tank and have all of them on the lowest setting? I would guess that's not much light. Everyone I know runs blues near the high end and slowly ramps the whites and some of the colored bulbs up until the corals look like they are happy which is different for each tank. 10 percent seems very low though.

Thank you very much for the detailed response. I am definitely going to give it a month or two before I head out and buy more lights. I attached pictures of the corals in the op. If they don't show up i can repost them for you once I get to my computer since the files are on there. The tank is also a 90g. This morning I took your advice and ramped the actinics up to about 60 percent. The stellata monti seems to be coloring up a bit more on the pale side so I think its helping. I'll slowly ramp the whites up till I have them where it looks nice and the corals are happy. Although I noticed that my red monti is starting to look weird. It almost looks like pieces of it got chipped off and left white behind. I'll attach a picture. Is this something I should be worried about?

I also agree with piper that the salifert kits aren't too bad it's just a bit difficult to differentiate the colors. I always look through the side when testing my nitrates and then divide by 10. The fact that my year old kit was reading a bit off is kind of alarming but then again, it's a year old. I'll need to check the expiration date when I get home. I use hanna for alk and elos for ph but I have salifert for ca, mag, nh4, no3, no2, and po4. I agree the po4 isn't good for getting an actual reading. I usually test it and if its clear then I know I am good. I'm eventually going to get hanna for most of my tests, just don't have the money right now.