Sump Design: Single End input or dual?

[ReefPilot1]

Sump Design

Sump Design

I recently went through the same decision as you did Wingman. I elected to go with the return section in the middle. I like having an easy way to adjust flow to my fuge as needed. And I wasn't worried about a larger portion of non-skimmed water going to the fuge.

Originally I planned to build the whole sump out of acrylic, but decided it would be quicker, cheaper, and easier to get a glass tank (75 gal), get some glass baffles cut at a local glass shop, and then put them where I wanted using silicon. In the end, I am glad I went that route. It was extremely easy to do, and took no time at all.

Attached is the layout I went with. Having the drawing helped visualize everything and I was able to tweak the final layout from there. The only changes are that I am planning on running the adjustment valve off the return pump into the skimmer section. I am hopeful I won't even need to open this valve and "dial down" my return pump. But if I ever do need to, the option is there. Also, I made the fuge a little bigger and reduced the size of the return section by a few gallons.

Return pump is a Water Blaster HY-7000 and the skimmer is a Super Reef Octopus 3000 Int.

Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[Wingman6]

I recently went through the same decision as you did Wingman. I elected to go with the return section in the middle. I like having an easy way to adjust flow to my fuge as needed. And I wasn't worried about a larger portion of non-skimmed water going to the fuge.

Originally I planned to build the whole sump out of acrylic, but decided it would be quicker, cheaper, and easier to get a glass tank (75 gal), get some glass baffles cut at a local glass shop, and then put them where I wanted using silicon. In the end, I am glad I went that route. It was extremely easy to do, and took no time at all.

Attached is the layout I went with. Having the drawing helped visualize everything and I was able to tweak the final layout from there. The only changes are that I am planning on running the adjustment valve off the return pump into the skimmer section. I am hopeful I won't even need to open this valve and "dial down" my return pump. But if I ever do need to, the option is there. Also, I made the fuge a little bigger and reduced the size of the return section by a few gallons.

Return pump is a Water Blaster HY-7000 and the skimmer is a Super Reef Octopus 3000 Int.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Great post and diagram. I am settled on a center return with my rouge fed by a portion if the return. I'll be running a straight 2 in drain out of the tank and into the skimmer section. As you did, I'm kicking around just getting a cheap glass tank so I can go bigger than the 55 the guy sold me with the tank. I would imagine you could put acrylic baffles in as I already picked up some material.

Still trying to figure out the size of return but Ill use your diagram as a starting point.

Also trying to figure out the deltec apf600. He didn't give me a pump so need to find that or find an alternative. Second this skimmer can be external so I either need to gravity feed or buy yet another pump to feed it. Decisions decisions.

 

[ReefPilot1]

Lots of decisions for sure! It can be a slow process, at least for me. Even though I reduced the return size smaller than the drawing, I suspect I could have gone even smaller. Also, I am not sure how easy it is to seal acrylic to glass. I know people have done it, but just something to think about. One last thing, if you haven't seen melevsreef.com, it is a good reference for various sump designs and layouts.

 

[Wingman6]

Lots of decisions for sure! It can be a slow process, at least for me. Even though I reduced the return size smaller than the drawing, I suspect I could have gone even smaller. Also, I am not sure how easy it is to seal acrylic to glass. I know people have done it, but just something to think about. One last thing, if you haven't seen melevsreef.com, it is a good reference for various sump designs and layouts.

Ya that is for sure. I found that the work i actually need to do to get the tank up and running is a few hours, but the research and planning has been way more than that. And i'm still not sure about that.

I don't want to put in too much more money but i'm hoping that the 55 gallong sump would end up being enough with a big enough fuge. I've heard some people say small ones don't buy you much though are somewhat helpful. If i can find something 75-90 gallons for a good deal i might pick it up.

other option i was thinking would be to find a nice square 20 gallon or 30 gallon tank that i can put next to the current sump and connect with a bulk head. I can then make a small section in the current sump with baffles. I imagine this would also work with what i have though likely would take up more space. I would really hate to want a bigger sump once i get everything up and running.

 

[ReefPilot1]

Tried sending you a PM, but it won't let me until I have over 10 posts. I just signed up for a new username, as I got locked out of my old one.

 

[Wingman6]

Tried sending you a PM, but it won't let me until I have over 10 posts. I just signed up for a new username, as I got locked out of my old one.

quick 6 more posts...haha

i can always do email if that works...

 

[halcyonism]

If I were you I would steer clear of a 55g for a sump, it is what I currently have and I hate it. Too narrow and too tall, quite the pain to work in... which is why I am replacing it with a 40br in the very near future.

 

[Wingman6]

If I were you I would steer clear of a 55g for a sump, it is what I currently have and I hate it. Too narrow and too tall, quite the pain to work in... which is why I am replacing it with a 40br in the very near future.

Thanks for the input. I was actually having two other ideas.

1) found a 80 gallon acrylic tank for sale in my area to make into a sump
2)found a 30 gallon breeder tank that i could set on top of the other sump as the fuge. I don't think i'll be working much in the lower sump, more the fuge, and skimmer area, but no clue yet.

 

[uncleof6]

Thanks for the input. I was actually having two other ideas.

1) found a 80 gallon acrylic tank for sale in my area to make into a sump
2)found a 30 gallon breeder tank that i could set on top of the other sump as the fuge. I don't think i'll be working much in the lower sump, more the fuge, and skimmer area, but no clue yet.

Complicated and unnecessary plumbing to use both--for a gain that will be unnoticeable. Use the 80, design it well as a three compartment sump, and call it a day.

I agree with the call on the 55. They make poor sumps. They are tall and narrow. Sumps should be in the area of 16" front to back, and max 16" tall--depending, 18 x 18 is a good combo as well.... (40 and 50 breeder tanks. IIRC, the dimensions on the 80 should work well, after you open up the top a bit. Eurobracing is inconvenient, would not remove it, but would cut it back to make some room, and baffles will make up for it.

 

[one clownfish]

It sounds exactly like the tank I sold a few years ago. I ran it like this, the 1-1/2" intake was to the sump with a single 1" supply over the top in one corner of the DT, with a mag 12. Then I used a 1-1/2" siphon over the top in the other corner for a closed loop with a Dart and the (4) 3/4" holes in the back. I ran it like that for about 3yrs with no problems at all. It was loud but it didn't bother me because it was in the basement built into the wall with a large fish room.

 

[uncleof6]

It sounds exactly like the tank I sold a few years ago. I ran it like this, the 1-1/2" intake was to the sump with a single 1" supply over the top in one corner of the DT, with a mag 12. Then I used a 1-1/2" siphon over the top in the other corner for a closed loop with a Dart and the (4) 3/4" holes in the back. I ran it like that for about 3yrs with no problems at all. It was loud but it didn't bother me because it was in the basement built into the wall with a large fish room.

Next time you use a mag 12 make sure you use 1.5" return line. That is IF you want any flow out of it. They are "different" pumps, and do not flow on the curve in pipe smaller than 1.5". Goes for all mag drive pumps 9.5 and above. One reason I do not recommend their use.

 

[Wingman6]

Complicated and unnecessary plumbing to use both--for a gain that will be unnoticeable. Use the 80, design it well as a three compartment sump, and call it a day.

I agree with the call on the 55. They make poor sumps. They are tall and narrow. Sumps should be in the area of 16" front to back, and max 16" tall--depending, 18 x 18 is a good combo as well.... (40 and 50 breeder tanks. IIRC, the dimensions on the 80 should work well, after you open up the top a bit. Eurobracing is inconvenient, would not remove it, but would cut it back to make some room, and baffles will make up for it.

Thoughts on a 100 gallon sump? Found another that measures 60x20x18 which isnt bad. Regarding the pump, Does the dart have to be flooded or can I pull water up a pipe? I was going to have the inlet from the side of the sump but not sure I have space.

 

[uncleof6]

The dart requires a flooded intake. It is not a "lift" pump.

 

[Wingman6]

The dart requires a flooded intake. It is not a "lift" pump.

OK thanks. That's what I thought but wanted to check. That might make plumbing more interesting given a 100 gallon sump fills most of the stand.

 

[Wingman6]

so given the limitation of pump needing to be flooded and the size of the 100 gallon sump with relation to the inside of the stand, i think i only really have one option to connect up the pump to the sump. I'm doing the skimmer on one end the and fuge on the other with return in the middle. I can't get 2" pipe out the side of the sump from the front or back with space limitation so i decided to put in a piece of 2 inch pipe through the fuge to another bulkhead. This i a straight shot and should be pretty straight forward.

 

[uncleof6]

Have seen commercial sumps with a pass through such as this. Should not present a problem

 

[mrx66699]

wingman....the returns from the center were done in this one which was made from a 300gal dt converted into a sump.....it feeds dual reeflow dart super golds, with Bubble King SM 300 skimmer, dual returns, 400lbs of liverock, and a built in 50gal QT for new incoming fish.....

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[Wingman6]

I recently went through the same decision as you did Wingman. I elected to go with the return section in the middle. I like having an easy way to adjust flow to my fuge as needed. And I wasn't worried about a larger portion of non-skimmed water going to the fuge.

Originally I planned to build the whole sump out of acrylic, but decided it would be quicker, cheaper, and easier to get a glass tank (75 gal), get some glass baffles cut at a local glass shop, and then put them where I wanted using silicon. In the end, I am glad I went that route. It was extremely easy to do, and took no time at all.

Attached is the layout I went with. Having the drawing helped visualize everything and I was able to tweak the final layout from there. The only changes are that I am planning on running the adjustment valve off the return pump into the skimmer section. I am hopeful I won't even need to open this valve and "dial down" my return pump. But if I ever do need to, the option is there. Also, I made the fuge a little bigger and reduced the size of the return section by a few gallons.

Return pump is a Water Blaster HY-7000 and the skimmer is a Super Reef Octopus 3000 Int.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Ended up finding a 90 gallons tank to use as a sump. Probably a bit deep but i figure i can cut it down or put windows in it if i need it. How wide did you end up making the fuge just curiously?

Thanks

 

[uncleof6]

Ended up finding a 90 gallons tank to use as a sump. Probably a bit deep but i figure i can cut it down or put windows in it if i need it. How wide did you end up making the fuge just curiously?

Thanks

The size of the return section is more critical than the size of the "fuge". A system can function well without a "fuge", however, it will die rather quickly, if your pump burns out because your ATO took a dump while you were away for a couple days, and your return section was too small to handle the evaporation without the pump running dry ..... don't sacrifice "return volume" for "fuge volume" the trade off is not worth it.

 

[Wingman6]

So that brings up my next question. How many gallons should I expect to lose each day with an open top system? I'd like to have enough for 3-4 days before running dry if not more.