tankmates

[TikiDan]

I want to start a list of tankmates that we can browse on RC rather than go to another site.

I would like some feed back on this list and an explanation of why they are a good or bad tank mate.



Fish:

1) out competes for food
2) aggresive towards SH
3) presence in water column
4) etc.



Coral:

1) risk to SH
2) not enough water flow
3) etc.


Inverts:

1) risks to SH
2) etc.


*please add any exceptions such as tank size, lighting needs, flow needs, Difficult feeders, risk of disease transfer, required temps etc....

____________________________________________________

 

[TikiDan]

Fish:

1) Large Angelfish

2) Anglers / frogfish

3) Anthias

4) Basslets

5) Batfish

6) Blennies

7) Boxfish

8) Butterflys

9) Cardinalfish

10) Chromis

11) CLownfish

12) Damselfish

13) Dartfish

14) Dragonettes

15) Dwarf angels

16) Eels

17) Filefish

18) foxface / Rabbitfish

19) Gobies

20) Groupers

21) Hawkfish

22) Hogfish

23) Jawfish

24) Lionfish

25) Pipefish

27) Pseudochromis & Dottybacks

28) Puffers

29) Rays

30) Scorpions

31) Tangs & Surgeons

32) Triggerfish

33) Wrasse

34) Miscellaneous

 

[TikiDan]

Corals:

LPS:

1) CandyCane Coral (Caulastrea furata)

2) Trumpet Coral (Caulastrea curvate)

3) Elegance (Catalaphyllia jardinei)

4) Trachyphyllia (Trachyphyllia geoffroyi)

5) Lobophyllia (Lobophyllia hemprichir)

6) Wellsophyllia (Wellsophyllia radiata)

7) Maze Brain (Platygyra sp)

8) Pineapple Coral (Favites sp)

9) Sun Coral (Tubastrea)

10) Short Tentacles Plate (Fungia repanda)

11) Long Tentacle Plate (Heliofungia)

12) Bubble Coral (Plerogyra sinuosa)

13) Doughnut/Button Coral (Cynarina/Scolymia)

14) Tongue Coral (Polphyllia sp)

15) Tooth Coral (Galaxea sp)

16) Flowerpot Coral (Stenorhynchus seticornis)

17) Pagoda Coral (Camposcia retusa)

18) Fox Coral (Camposcia retusa)

19) Frogspawn (Euphyllia sp)

20) Hammer (Euphyllia sp)

21) Torch (Euphyllia sp)

22) Acanthastrea (Acanthastrea sp)

23) Blastos (Blastomussa)

24) Pearl Bubble (Physogyra sp)

 

[TikiDan]

Corallimorpharians:

1) Florida Ric (Ricordea)

2) Common Mushroom (Actinodiscus)

3) Yuma (Ricordea yuma)

4) Hairy Mushroom (Rhodactis indosinensis)

5) Elephant Ear Mushroom (Rhodactis)

 

[TikiDan]

Polyps:

1) Clove Polyp (Clavularia sp)

2) Zoas (Zoanthus sp)

3) Palys (Palythoa sp)

4) Anthelia (Anthelia sp)

5) Pipe Organ (Tubipora musica)

6) Yellow Polyps (Protopalythoa sp)

7) Xenia (Xenia sp)

8) Green Star Polyp (GSP) (Briareum sp)

9) Sponge Polyps (Parazoanthus sp)

 

[TikiDan]

Soft corals:

1) Toadstool Mushroom (Sarcophyton sp)

2) Speckled Leather (Cladiella sp)

3) Kenya Tree (Capnella sp)

4) Fiji Leather (Sacrophyton elegans)

5) Colt Coral (Alcyonium sp)

6) Carnation Coral (Dendronephthya sp)

7) Cabbage Leather (Sinularia dura)

8) Spaghetti Leather (Sinularia flexibis)

 

[TikiDan]

SPS:

1) Acropora (Acropora sp)

2) Montipora (Montipora sp)

3) Cup/Scroll Coral (Turbinaria sp)

4) Cat's Paw (Stylophora sp)

5) Staghorn (Acropora cervicornis)

6) Horn Coral (Hydnophora sp)

 

[TikiDan]

Sea fans / Gorgonians

1) Sea Stalk (Briareum abestinum)

2) Red Sea Fan (Gorgonia sp)

3) Yellow Finger Gorgonian (Diodogorgia nodulifera)

 

[TikiDan]

Invertebrates:

1) Anemones

2) Bivalves
a) Clams
b) Scallops

3) Cephalopods

4) Crabs
a) hermit crabs
b) Horseshoe Crab (Limulus polyphemus)
c) Arrow Crab (Stenorhynchus seticornis )
d) Porcelin Crab (Neopetrolisthes maculatus)
e) Decorator Crab (Camposcia retusa)
f) Mithrax/Emerald Crab (Mithraculs sculptus)
g) Sally Light Foot (Percnon gibbesi)

5) Fanworms

6) Lobsters

7) Sponges

8) Nudibranch

9) Sea Stars
a) Brittle stars
b) Serpent stars
c) Blue Sea Star (Linkia laevigate )
d) Sand Sifting Star (Astropecten polycanthus)
e) Red Knob Sea Star (Protoreaster linckii)

10) Shrimp
a) Peppermint Shrimp (Lysmata wurdemanni)
b) Pistol Tiger Shrimp (Alpheus bellelus )
c) Sexy Shrimp (Thor amboinensis)
d) Saron Shrimp (Saron marmoratus)
e) Harlequin Shrimp (Hymenocera picta)
f) Cleaner Shrimp (Lysmata hispidus)
g) Coral Banded Shrimp (Stenopus hispidus)
h) Camel Shrimp (Rhychocinetes uritai)
i) Bumblebee Shrimp (Gnathophyllum americanum)
j) Fire Shrimp (Lysmata debelius)
k) Ghost Shrimp (Penaeus sp)

11) urchins
Longspine Urchin (Tridachia sp)

 

[TikiDan]

My reason for doing this is because SH.org is so vague on the descriptions and risks.


Once we have a list of traits and characteristics, I will make a new thread with everything organized and easy to read. And if it is up to par, it can be a sticky.


Keep in mind of any exceptions that might make something work in one tank and not another, such as a small seahorse tank (30 gallons) compared to a large seahorse tank (over a hudred gallons, or even larger)

Thanks for everyones help on this project.

 

[pledosophy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12410781#post12410781 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TikiDan
My reason for doing this is because SH.org is so vague on the descriptions and risks.

Just curious as to what more specifically you'd like to see.

 

[TikiDan]

rather than a numbered rating I would like to see an example and breakdown for each one so that way you could see exactly why they are a good tank mate or not.

Maybe it's not needed but I think it would be cool

 

[ann83]

In Kevin and Renee's defense, they spent a lot of time and energy putting together that tankmate list, as volunteers, out of the goodness of their hearts. While there are a lot of things that would make tankmate research "easier" for people, I still think that the list is fantastic, the addition of pictures is great, and since I didn't put my blood and sweat into it; I will offer no complaints. It might take large monitary and frag-itary donations to persuade them to drag themselves away from their tanks to make your requested changes...

Personally, I think that it is important for people to thoroughly research every animal they put into their tank, so I kind of appreciate not having a breakdown of each animal, since that requires the responsible hobbyist to research (from multiple sources) and come to their own conclusion. Plus, no matter how much detail you add to a list, people are always going to want more

That being said, the only reason I'm not helping you with the reasons behind "yes" or "no" on the tankmates you listed, is because my fingers don't deserve that kind of abuse and I'm fond of a good night's sleep. Just looking at them though, a lot of them are pretty self-explanatory (i.e. stinging SH, eating SH, shouldn't be kept in anything but the largest aquariums, etc.). If you knocked those out yourself with explanations, I'm sure people would be happy to help you with any of the ones left that you have questions about.

 

[TikiDan]

sorry, I didn't know that the list was made by fellow keepers here.

I was just thinking that some fish might be marked as bad tank mates for the simple reason that they need a bigger tank, but what if you have a "big" seahorse tank. (I personally have a 120 gallon planted SH tank)

I think some SPS would be fine as there are some low flow sps out there. So I guess I was just trying to come up with a detail on the exceptions to the rules instead of a yes or no. like "____" fish is a bad choice because it gets too large, for smaller tanks, but is not aggressive and would be fine in a larger tank.

I apologize if I struck a wrong chord, as I do appreciate the work done on SH dot ORG

 

[ann83]

Dan, I was completely honest about being willing to help you with the parts of the list you aren't sure about. I just think it'd be tedious to go through the whole list with explanations, and I'm sure that others feel the same way. If you post a list with only the tankmates that you are unsure about, I will definately jump in to help out.

 

[TikiDan]

my problem is, i am fairly new to SH's and am not sure on alot of things

Obviously anything that sends out sweepers is a bad choice.

Anemones are a bad choice due them eating seahorse

Large angels? They need a Large tank, but if you had a large SH tank, would there be a risk of them nipping at the SH?

What about the less obvious things like your cleanup crew and what would be good and bad. Would a serpent star be a good tank mate to help remove detritus or would it try to attack the SH?

and a copper band butterfly. Very mellow, slow eating fish. Are they a bad tank mate because they nip at the SH? or are they bad because they are hard to get to eat?


Maybe if people chimed in with personal expieriences on certain things like "I have a "_____" in my tank with no problem, or I tried "____" and this happened.


I wouldn't mind typing up all the info to post, if I had the info.

 

[pledosophy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12415631#post12415631 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TikiDan
sorry, I didn't know that the list was made by fellow keepers here.

No worries my man. I asked you opinion cuz I wanted it, not cuz I felt like I was being attacked. Perhaps now would be a good time to say that I am Kevin, and I did co write that article.

It's important for me to see what people outside of the immediate circle have to say about it so I can make future modifications so it is helpful to everyone. Renee, Greg, and I are working on a short summary of every fish but it will take awhile for all of that to go live. We don't seek to be the end all of fish keeping, but just one of many reference points.

I was just thinking that some fish might be marked as bad tank mates for the simple reason that they need a bigger tank, but what if you have a "big" seahorse tank. (I personally have a 120 gallon planted SH tank)

I didn't really quailify stuff like that. Some of the wrasses listed would do horribly in a 29g with a 2" sandbed, I took it upon the reader to find the compatibility with seahorses, and then to make sure there tank was compatible as well. There are several examples as such.

I think some SPS would be fine as there are some low flow sps out there. So I guess I was just trying to come up with a detail on the exceptions to the rules instead of a yes or no. like "____" fish is a bad choice because it gets too large, for smaller tanks, but is not aggressive and would be fine in a larger tank.

SPS actually have the ability to sting seahorses. It's a danger to them. Millipora are less likely which is why they have a lower rating. There are a few speices of seahorses which live in stony coral patches but I did not want to limit the article based on a couple of exemptions. For example I think you could keep barbouri with several different species of hard coral, in the Phillipines Kuda often live on porties, but the list is still limited as different hard corals have different stinging ability.

I ignored the temp issues too, if your keeping pots, then some softies may be out of the question, that was for the reader to determin.

I have found the ability to keep SPS with seahorses in smaller tanks, flow is a desing issue and not a limiting factor for keeping SPS with seahorses IMHO.

Another thing with SPS and seahorses is that the seahorses will bug the crap out of the SPS even when it is "safe". So why some SPS is seahorse friendly, seahorses are not really SPS friendly if you dig the difference.

The same is true of many gorgonia. While they pose no threat to the seahorse, seahorses pose a real threat to the gorg. We rated them at 0 since the is no risk to the horse, but if I were doing a coral compatiblity chart the rating would be different.

I didn't give any fish a no (4) that had any chance f being seahorse compatible with an ideal setup designed to make the two species live together.

Writing a different tankmate guide for each of the 34 species is out of my range. To much work, far to much overlap. :lol:

Large angels? They need a Large tank, but if you had a large SH tank, would there be a risk of them nipping at the SH?

No matter how large the tank they are not compatible. There is a risk of aggression. There is food competion. There is also a very real chance that a fast moving fish kept with seahorses will stress the seahorses so they retreat to one area of the tank and do not leave there hitch to eat. It's less concrete then my angel ate my seahorse, but many occurances of fast moving fish being itroduced to seahorse tanks are follwed by bacterial infection of seahorses that I believe are a secondary infection due to the intial stressor and lack of nutrition. JMO.

What about the less obvious things like your cleanup crew and what would be good and bad. Would a serpent star be a good tank mate to help remove detritus or would it try to attack the SH?

Serpent stars eat fish, so . . . no they are not a good tankmate. If they can catch a fster moving fish a seahorse is easy prey. It might not happen the first day, maybe not even the first year, but it is a real threat so they received a 4. There is a follow up article dealing specifically with clean up crews coming soon.

and a copper band butterfly. Very mellow, slow eating fish. Are they a bad tank mate because they nip at the SH? or are they bad because they are hard to get to eat?

These were actually kind of hard for me to rate. They were rate on the edge of a 3 (I wouldn't do it but go ahead and try just have a place to move it if it doesn't work out) and a 4 (no way no how). I do know of one public aquarium and one keeper who have kept the two together for an extended period of time. They can be aggressive, they do compete for food, they will present some stress to the seahorse by being in th ewater column. We went with a 4 just to be on the safe side. Of all the 4's it is the most do able IMHO, but I would never dare to try myself.

I wouldn't mind typing up all the info to post, if I had the info.

All the info is out there, you just have to do the work to find it. I looked on 20 or so different forums, have several books, was in contact with some field researchers, and just took the time to do the homework to read through thousands and thousands of posts taking hundreds of pages of notes.

I apologize if I struck a wrong chord, as I do appreciate the work done on SH dot ORG

Thank you, no need to apologize. When I started this article last year there was very little to go on. I had to scrounge for info from many site, many keepers, many books. It was hard to go against what many of the "icons" where saying about tankmates but the info I had disagreed so I presented it. (5 years ago saying any LPS could be kept with seahorses would get you laughed out of most research facilities and forums.) The experiences of over a thousand different seahorse keepers went into defining those warnings. I have extensive notes on every species listed if you would like more info on any of them.

All in all, between the research on fish, corals, inverts, the pics, the web coding, etc, that article probably has a couple thousand hours of work behind it. If you want to endevour on making your own I would appluad it. I didn't start the project because I wanted to be some sort of guru or get any recognition (you'll notice I use a different SN, and this is the first or second time I ever stated I wrote it on a site outside of the org) I took it on to make more info available to the hobby. If you want to under go the work I'd love to discuss your results. Maybe we could both learn something.

 

[ann83]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12415715#post12415715 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TikiDan
Maybe if people chimed in with personal expieriences on certain things like "I have a "_____" in my tank with no problem, or I tried "____" and this happened.

I will go over the fish that I have personal experience with. This is not a comprehensive list, many species are not listed because I have never kept them.

Fish and other critters that I have kept, but have NEVER kept with seahorses, and NEVER will, regardless of circumstances, size of tank, or the specimen's personality (i.e. it doesn't matter if the reef crashed, if the fish was small, if the tank was huge, etc., etc. - its still a "no"):

Triggers, Tangs, Rabbitfish, Lyretail Anthias - they are all too fast of swimmers, too aggressive of eaters, and too territorial.

Corynactis/pseudocorynactis (jewel anemones) - have the ability to kill seahorses (I have unintentionally kept these with seahorses - it did not turn out well - one got to a seahorse before I spotted it in the tank).

Various hermit crabs (halloween, zebra, blue leg, red leg, scarlet) - if I had to choose, I'd choose a scarlet, but I don't plan on ever keeping hermits with my SH. Not just for the sake of the SH, but also for the sake of my snails, which I need to keep my SH tank clean. Plus, when weighing peace of mind with any benefit hermits might have, having peace of mind wins.

Fish and other critters that I have kept with seahorses, but will NOT keep with them again. These are a personal judgement call, and I am ONLY going by my own experiences:

Peppermint shrimp - they were fine when they were small (heck, they were afraid of being eaten), but as they got larger, they got bolder. They would climb into the feeding dish and steal food, climbing over the seahorses to do it. The seahorses became reclusive and ate less, and I never saw the clown goby anymore. Once the peps were removed, the seahorses and clown goby became a lot more active again. This was a gradual thing, and I almost didn't notice, and pretty much just removed the peps on a "hunch".

Gorgonians - my female seahorse likes to rearrange the decorations. The macros can handle being picked up and dropped all over the tank (or in some cases, the seahorse trying unsuccessfully to pick them up), but the gorgonians never faired very well with this treatment. If she was able to move the gorg to the sandbed (where she moves everything ), the gorg ended up laying in the sand until I noticed, sometimes with macros dropped on top of it. This is not good for a gorg. If she was unsuccessful, the wrapping of the tail and tugging irritated the gorg. This is also not good for a gorg.

Live rock - this is a test of my patience. I do have live rock in the tank right now, but I won't add any new live rock to my system; only dry like marco rock. After a while, you get sick and tired of keeping up after all of the hitchhikers - and the only sure fire ways to remove the hitchhikers also remove all the reasons why you get LR in the first place. It can be a danger, but it is more a test of my patience, and I don't want to bother with it anymore.

Things that I have kept with seahorses, that I would recommend:

Yellow clown goby - great tankmate, does not bother the seahorses or compete with them; but is very skittish, even more so than the seahorses, so having any bold tankmates may make the goby a very boring tankmate. They are a cute and active addition when kept soley with seahorses and/or with slow, passive tankmates.

Various macro algaes - treated to remove nasties like aiptasia of course.

Kenya trees, feather dusters, nassarius snails, astrea snails, nerite snails, cerith snails, fighting conchs, limpets, stomatella, spaghetti worms, spirorbids, etc. - of course, with proper qurantine of anything purchased or aquired (i.e. anything that didn't spontaneously appear in the system).

*There are a few fish that I keep that fall into the "well, if the tank crashed..." category, or that I would try based on the individual specimens personality and the exact specs of my seahorse tank. However, I know my seahorses, I know how to I.D. normal and stressed seahorse behavior, and more importantly, I have been keeping the specific individuals seperate from my seahorses long enough to know whether that particular individual might be okay. These fish were not included on the list, because you have no shot of getting my specific individuals. The fish listed under the "NEVER" category, would never fall into this range of "maybe".*

HTH