Coming back after 15 years...

[ClarkiiClownfish]

Hello RC, It's been a minute. I have the wife talked in to spending the money for a new reef tank! That's like 75% of the battle, right? It looks like things have changed just a tad bit from 30 years ago! I've been out 15 years, but I set up my first tank 15 years prior to that.

I'd like some advice on step 1, acquiring the tank, and the stand, sump, plumbing.

What we know:
1. We love the completely rimless glass look, but we are also practical & if it's too much of a risk, then we go with a rim.
2. Tank will be a peninsula. Hopefully 6ftx30"x30". Cost and rim vs no rim could affect this. We may need to scale back to 4ftx24"x24".
3. No Red Sea. They look beautiful but just too many horror stories.
4. Considering & researching Cade, Waterbox, Planet. Are there others I should be looking at? Would appreciate feedback of your tank if you are kind enough to take the time to reply.
5. This will be a mixed reef, sps/softies/fish.
6. I love tinkering with tech, so I want to incorporate as much automation & smart devices/monitoring, etc as is reasonable. I do know automation cannot be fully trusted though. I will be hands on & maintaining the tank myself & realize daily visual inspection & water tests using test kits is required.

So what about water changes though? I hear you don't have to do them anymore with these new smart tanks! Just kidding!

This is going to be a slow & methodical process with copious amounts of research & planning. I learned the lesson of moving too fast 30 years ago. We will likely pull the trigger late spring/early summer 2024 after research is done & we are convinced we have selected the right product & company to do the installation (I was young man 30 years ago with 3 less back surgeries, no way I'm picking up a fish tank! )

Thanks for reading!
Ken in StL

 

[reefing102]

Welcome back!

A lot has changed.

My tank is an off the shelf 65 reef ready(I forget the exact brand at the moment). The only brand I have seen significant amounts of horror stories is RedSea however I have seen the occasional leak story pop up from time to time with other brands.

With that said, some other brands to consider could be innovative Marine, Truvu or Tsunami (from fish tanks direct) or perhaps custom from Glass Cages or Crystal Dynamics. I have no experience with any of these brands so definitely do research. The brands you’ve mentioned I can’t say I’ve seen anything recent as far as issues are concerned.

Automation: There’s Apex, Hydros, Profilux, ReefPi and I think a couple others but those are the main ones.

They all pretty much do the same thing just depends what gadgets you want. Some dosers (like the Neptune Dos - Apex) can set up auto water changes. Other systems have auto water change modules. Some integrate with lights, others don’t. One of the biggest benefits of any of the main brands is testing. Apex can automatically test Mg, CA and Alk with the Trident (in addition to the standard PH, ORP, and Salinity (depending on the model Apex used)

GHL (Profilux) has the various testers like the Ion Director, KH Director, etc (can’t remember which does what currently)

CoralVue (hydros) I don’t think does much automated testing (except basic monitoring) but I could be wrong - not extremely familiar with.

ReefPi I’m not very familiar with at all.

Many tanks nowadays are actually run without water changes with dosing the proper items needed. Me, I still do the occasional water change but it’s far from consistent or regular schedule.

@griss is from the StL area and may have recommendations for local tank people

 

[griss]

Welcome back. I think Shane covered most of your questions above. I can only speak from my experience and I still tend to run my tank fairly old school.

I currently have an off the shelf 40 breeder that I drilled to accommodate an eShoppes overflow, with 10 gallon sump (also off the shelf) that I built using an acrylic sump kit off eBay and 5 gallon (again, off the shelf) refugium that I drilled for a DIY overflow. The refugium is lit by a cheap Amazon growlight that grows Caulerpa amazingly well. Note: since you're local, if you need Caulerpa in the future, I have 3-4 species in that you are welcome to frags of.

For filtration, I have an eShopps S-120 (I think, I've had it a long time) skimmer and a BRS media reactor. I'm currently only running carbon in the media reactor.

Waterflow is provided by (2) Jebao powerheads and (2) Sicce powerheads.

Lighting is a 175w 11K metal halide supplemented with an actinic LED light.

For control, I have an Apex Jr. (older model) with: (2) EB8's, a PM1 (pH monitor) module, a LSM (Lunar) module and that's it. I run the Sicce powerheads on a 10 minute on/10 minute off cycle via the Apex. The Apex also controls my heater.

I do a 5 gallon water change every other week, drip 1/2 to 1 gallon of weak Kalk a day and also have RO/DI for topoff on a float valve in the sump.

A lot of really good LFS have closed over the years so we don't have the number we used to have. Most of the saltwater specific LFS are a good 35-45 minutes (one way) from me. So, my knowledge is limited as I simply don't have the time to drive that far and, right now I'm happy with the amount of livestock I have. But, here's my take:
Petland (Wentzville) - Never been there, but heard they have SW.
Marine Solutions (St. Charles) - Haven't been there in years, so I can't comment.
Corals & More (St. Charles) - I've only been there once and it was during COVID. At the time, they had very limited livestock but that could have been due to COVID lockdowns.
Aqua World (Ellisville) - Awesome for FW and Pond, SW is very limited.
Petco (Ellisville) - Hit or miss on livestock and the health of the livestock. I have gotten a nice LTA, some Clarkii Clowns, and an Orchid Dottyback from them that I've been happy with.
Petco (Fenton) - Good selection of fish, corals & inverts, generally good health.
Petland (Fenton) - Went there a couple months ago and they do NOT carry SW livestock.
The Corner Reef (South County) - Good selection and health.
SeaScape Studios (South County) - Haven't been there in years, but they're still supposedly pretty good.
Art of Aquaria (South County) - Never been there and don't know much about them.
Salty Underground (South County) - Never bought from them and they are not a walk in store. However, locals can buy online and pickup to avoid shipping costs.

As far as tanks, if I remember correctly, Aqua World recommends Planet Aquarium and I've heard really good things about them.

 

[Vinny Kreyling]

Glass Cages has come a long way with their tanks.

 

[griss]

Glass Cages has come a long way with their tanks.

Aren't they under (relatively) new (not the original) ownership?

 

[Vinny Kreyling]

Yes.

 

[pblogic]

The only way to really feel safe about never getting a leak is Acrylic. You could look at Tenecor, or Advanced Acrylics. I've used Advanced Acrylics before for a custom tank and I feel they did a very good job. I'm just coming back to the hobby myself and after a lot of reading it seems like all of the glass manufacturers have leak issues. It seems the RedSea is the most reported. FijiCube seems to be a bad idea as well. Innovative Marine seems to get reports of problems with their external overflows, and I think both they and Waterbox are pretty overpriced. For what they charge you can get a custom Acrylic setup from Advanced Acrylics. I just don't see the value in Innovative Marine or Waterbox personally. I'm looking at just having a custom tank made from Advanced Acrylics or Tenecor at this point, personally.

I looked at glass cages thinking perhaps I would have a 20g nano built, but for even something that small their tank builder was quoting like 1300$. With no stand or sump. Just 1300$ for the aquarium. Advanced Acrylics has a setup with a 25 gallon tank, sump, and stand for that price. I have no idea how Glasscages gets anyone to pay those prices. No offense meant, I have read that the new guy running things is great, but I don't see the value compared to other options. Once again, might as well go with Advanced or Tenecor. To me, glass cages is wildly over priced. Some people like Planet Aquarium but they won't deal with you directly and make you work with an LFS. That is a hard pass for me. No way am I spending that kind of money with no access to the manufacturer.

 

[Joe Glasscages]

The only way to really feel safe about never getting a leak is Acrylic. You could look at Tenecor, or Advanced Acrylics. I've used Advanced Acrylics before for a custom tank and I feel they did a very good job. I'm just coming back to the hobby myself and after a lot of reading it seems like all of the glass manufacturers have leak issues. It seems the RedSea is the most reported. FijiCube seems to be a bad idea as well. Innovative Marine seems to get reports of problems with their external overflows, and I think both they and Waterbox are pretty overpriced. For what they charge you can get a custom Acrylic setup from Advanced Acrylics. I just don't see the value in Innovative Marine or Waterbox personally. I'm looking at just having a custom tank made from Advanced Acrylics or Tenecor at this point, personally.

I looked at glass cages thinking perhaps I would have a 20g nano built, but for even something that small their tank builder was quoting like 1300$. With no stand or sump. Just 1300$ for the aquarium. Advanced Acrylics has a setup with a 25 gallon tank, sump, and stand for that price. I have no idea how Glasscages gets anyone to pay those prices. No offense meant, I have read that the new guy running things is great, but I don't see the value compared to other options. Once again, might as well go with Advanced or Tenecor. To me, glass cages is wildly over priced. Some people like Planet Aquarium but they won't deal with you directly and make you work with an LFS. That is a hard pass for me. No way am I spending that kind of money with no access to the manufacturer.

Hi there @pblogic

we so much appreciate the consideration. Thank you.

On 20 gallon tanks we just cant compete price wise with all the options available for you and others. Thats ok. Every company has a space they excel at. Sorry about that.

appreciate the transparency and consideration.

I am sure you will find a great solution. many options for you. Thanks!

 

[pblogic]

Hi there @pblogic

we so much appreciate the consideration. Thank you.

On 20 gallon tanks we just cant compete price wise with all the options available for you and others. Thats ok. Every company has a space they excel at. Sorry about that.

appreciate the transparency and consideration.

I am sure you will find a great solution. many options for you. Thanks!

You bet, I'm happy to see you guys doing so much better. I see you are super active on the forums. I really wish you the best of luck.

 

[T Diddy]

Best of luck with your tank selection. As you said, the hardest part may be behind you already. As for my $0.02, you may want to reconsider the 30” height. Mine is a 150 gallon (140 when subtracting the volume of the overflows) and also 30” tall. 30” is literally armpit deep for most people. It wasn’t a deal breaker for me, but I’ve kicked myself multiple times for not going with more depth and less height.

 

[griss]

Best of luck with your tank selection. As you said, the hardest part may be behind you already. As for my $0.02, you may want to reconsider the 30” height. Mine is a 150 gallon (140 when subtracting the volume of the overflows) and also 30” tall. 30” is literally armpit deep for most people. It wasn’t a deal breaker for me, but I’ve kicked myself multiple times for not going with more depth and less height.

Good point, when I had my 450 it was 30” tall and it was a pain to reach items at the bottom.

 

[ClarkiiClownfish]

Thanks to all for the warm welcomes & insightful advice! Still researching, but leaning toward Cade 1500 or 1800 Peninsula in white. Probably going to order it when I get back from a trip in the spring. Waiting on a couple of quotes from some custom aquarium builders, but at this point, I don't think I can be swayed from the Cade. (Hey, that rhymes!). The only downside with Cade is it doesn't seem any of the LFS I talked to are interested in doing the install/setup. Some I talked to have never even heard of Cade. Anyone out there know of a LFS that would be willing to help with that?

Best of luck with your tank selection. As you said, the hardest part may be behind you already. As for my $0.02, you may want to reconsider the 30” height. Mine is a 150 gallon (140 when subtracting the volume of the overflows) and also 30” tall. 30” is literally armpit deep for most people. It wasn’t a deal breaker for me, but I’ve kicked myself multiple times for not going with more depth and less height.

I'm 6ft 10in with long ape arms so no problem for me. But the Cades are only 24" tall so moot point now.

The only way to really feel safe about never getting a leak is Acrylic.

Thank you for the advice but acrylic is a no go for me. I had a Tenecor 180 for many years. They just scratch too easily. Or maybe I should say I scratched it too easily? I was very careful with it but obviously not careful enough. Then my girlfriend decided to be "helpful" one day & clean the acrylic with the magnet scrubber. I wasn't home. The inside flipped around on her & she didn't realize it. Thankfully it was on an end, but she did some pretty heavy damage to it. I'm definitely going glass.

 

[griss]

6’ 10”? Are you an NBA player?

 

[T Diddy]

I’m with you there…acrylic is a bit overrated in my opinion. You could always get starfire (lead free) glass for an upcharge, but again, scratching becomes a factor

 

[T Diddy]

I’m with you there…acrylic is a bit overrated in my opinion. You could always get starfire (lead free) glass for an upcharge, but again, scratching becomes a factor

…sorry, I meant iron free

 

[ClarkiiClownfish]

6’ 10”? Are you an NBA player?

I wish!

 

[ClarkiiClownfish]

…sorry, I meant iron free

Cades come with all ultra clear low iron glass. I have read about it being softer & prone to scratches, then I've also read that is a myth & there is very little difference between the two in that regard. Meaning that if you did something to scratch your low iron glass, that exact same event would most assuredly scratch regular glass as well. So, who knows. I do know that I definitely don't want another acrylic tank though.

 

[Dustin07]

3. No Red Sea. They look beautiful but just too many horror stories.

It looks like things have changed just a tad bit from 30 years ago!

The only brand I have seen significant amounts of horror stories is RedSea however I have seen the occasional leak story pop up from time to time with other brands.

The only way to really feel safe about never getting a leak is Acrylic.

I'm leaning acrylic when we are ready to replace this tank we have going now. I had not heard any of the RedSea stories but it validates the concerns I have with this other "free" tank I'm using now.

I had taken about a 10-15yr break as well and I'll tell you the biggest change I see that I am loving is the improvement in lighting options. It's unfortunate that RedSea has a negative reputation on their tanks apparently, because I love my redsea 50w LED lights. my corals are thriving under them and the app is super simple.

 

[reefing102]

I'm leaning acrylic when we are ready to replace this tank we have going now. I had not heard any of the RedSea stories but it validates the concerns I have with this other "free" tank I'm using now.

I had taken about a 10-15yr break as well and I'll tell you the biggest change I see that I am loving is the improvement in lighting options. It's unfortunate that RedSea has a negative reputation on their tanks apparently, because I love my redsea 50w LED lights. my corals are thriving under them and the app is super simple.

With regards to their tanks, while I’ll never personally own one, they are one of if not the most popular brand of aquarium systems. Also many people are quick to post their bad experiences and not the good ones. So you’re seeing a handful of bad experiences based on an unknown number of sales. Most of the known issues, to my knowledge, were with their older tanks and the new ones have additional supports to prevent the leak issues. Again not saying go Red Sea but I encourage people to do the research into the brand they prefer.

 

[ClarkiiClownfish]

Seeing a Red Sea in person is what got me the "do another tank" itch after 15 years out. It was stunning! The contemporary look, smooth lines, rimless design. We have the perfect spot for a peninsula in our house. We almost pulled the trigger on it months ago & I stumbled on a leak story, then another, and another. Seems they tried to hide the issue as well, by deleting posts from their FB page. The proof is out there if you look. To me, that's a dispicable way run a company. These stories really opened our eyes & we slammed on the brakes. I'll never own one. But to each their own.

Still waiting on a quote from a LFS for a Planet rimless peninsula similar dimensions to the Cade. Expecting it to be out of sight, but we'll see. Putting together a list of items, lights, skimmer, UV, controller, doser, monitor, pumps. Going to ponder this during our spring trip then pull the trigger after that.