The BB movement
- Thread starter thefuture
- Start date
I have no problems myself and really have only seen about 2-3 dozen people who have a problem while hundreds aren't.
G-money
Premium Member
Other than aesthetics and providing essential habitat for a very select number of organisms, sand serves no purpose that can't be accomplished another way. That's the truth. 
I'm not saying it's necessarily any worse than any other approach - that's your opinion to form. Only that it only serves a purpose if it serves you. There isn't a critter I haven't seen in my BB tank that I saw in my DSB tank. That includes many kinds of worms. They live in rock, too.
There is also an argument that whatever microorganism niche is being provided by the sand only benefits the sand anyway. How much plankton is feeding your tank from these niche critters? We've already stressed the skimmer's importance - and it's taking much of this potential food out. IMO, it's a completely irrelevant factor inasmuch as someone else thinks it's a benefit. You can't prove it either way and IMO there's nothing essential lacking from my sandless tank related to this "factor". Some people gravitate toward the idea that they are able to create more "natural" food for their tank. I see no beneficial evidence either way and as many cons as pros.
Personally, I don't want the added biomass that sand brings with it. Which is not to say that it's needed for most organisms in a reef tank, but rather that it just provides more habitat space than no sand at all. That some folks see more stability with sand vs. BB is hard for me to grasp. There's something else at play here, since any sand is another living, respiring organism. How that adds stability is your case to make.
In the end, it is a silly argument, but it seems like people will never tire of defending their methods (myself included) which often has a component of detraction to the alternatives. As for myself, never sand again.
And Greg, my website has tons of pics of my tank's evolution from DSB to SSB to BB (well, faux sandbed). I'll have current ones up by the weekend I hope, but there are some from January up there. I've never had a tank funtion better - using the exact same equipment. Maybe it's just my "time".
I'm not saying it's necessarily any worse than any other approach - that's your opinion to form. Only that it only serves a purpose if it serves you. There isn't a critter I haven't seen in my BB tank that I saw in my DSB tank. That includes many kinds of worms. They live in rock, too.
There is also an argument that whatever microorganism niche is being provided by the sand only benefits the sand anyway. How much plankton is feeding your tank from these niche critters? We've already stressed the skimmer's importance - and it's taking much of this potential food out. IMO, it's a completely irrelevant factor inasmuch as someone else thinks it's a benefit. You can't prove it either way and IMO there's nothing essential lacking from my sandless tank related to this "factor". Some people gravitate toward the idea that they are able to create more "natural" food for their tank. I see no beneficial evidence either way and as many cons as pros.
Personally, I don't want the added biomass that sand brings with it. Which is not to say that it's needed for most organisms in a reef tank, but rather that it just provides more habitat space than no sand at all. That some folks see more stability with sand vs. BB is hard for me to grasp. There's something else at play here, since any sand is another living, respiring organism. How that adds stability is your case to make.
In the end, it is a silly argument, but it seems like people will never tire of defending their methods (myself included) which often has a component of detraction to the alternatives. As for myself, never sand again.
And Greg, my website has tons of pics of my tank's evolution from DSB to SSB to BB (well, faux sandbed). I'll have current ones up by the weekend I hope, but there are some from January up there. I've never had a tank funtion better - using the exact same equipment. Maybe it's just my "time".
MiddletonMark
Premium Member
Careful ... you're getting pretty close to suggesting there is `one right way' to run a BB [or a DSB, SSB, etc].
If you're not one of the `big BB advocates' ... IMO best not to speak for them. Discussions where folks classify what the opposite end is saying reminds me of political debates - only the most extreme opinions get aired.
IME, many who talk most about this system are recent adopters - and there's quite a few quiet-spoken BB'ers whose rational words and experience might contradict that.
I know after a few years of being told this expert says I'm wrong, that one says I'm going backwards, this guy tells me it won't work [mostly online, but sometimes in person] ... IMO many BB folks after a while quit posting much, as they're sick of being hassled. Just my experience - but I doubt I'm alone. Some of the folks who I learned a lot from a couple years ago setting up my BB are hard to find around these discussions often ... probably as fatigued with the arguments as I am.
Then again, folks rational opinions don't make much of an argument
JMBoehling
Premium Member
If you can't grow Chaeto in your Reef you can't grow anything, including Zooxanthellae in your corals. I am not a Biologist, but my sniffer tells me that the food my fish eat has plenty of nutrients that even the biggest skimmer in the world will not completely remove, hence food for my Chaeto.
I have found that my Chaeto grows best right after a water change and when I change my ROWA. If PO4 even begins to show it's ugly face, growth shuts down. Sounds weird, but that is what I have experienced.
Most "True BB'ers" don't like Chaeto because the stuff is like a Brillo Pad and traps lots of Detris. I remove mine every week, cull it, and rinse it out.
jsweir
New member
I can't grow Chaeto, it only lasts about 3 weeks in my sump. And I have no problem growing coral (except monti caps for some reason). I also believe that I could not have rid my tank of dinoflagellites without going BB. My rock is cleaner than ever and the tank is really shaping up. There would have to be a strong argument for using sand for me to go back. I just couldn't keep my tank this clean with sand in it. Maybe my husbandry wasn't the best method for sand. Who knows for sure. All I know is BB seems to work for me.
comatose
Active member
I just love these BB threads, it always seems to turn into a debate which is better DSB or BB, it reminds me of Republicans and Democrats they'll just never get along no matter what.
First, I have a BB tank and enjoy the fact that I can keep a high flow without sand blowing all over the place, itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s easier to clean.
Second, Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve had DSB for many years and never had a problem and also think DSB has itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s benefits, as one poster said some corals prefer sand over BB.
Third, I donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t think BB or DSB is better than the other, itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s a matter of personal preference, also like some posters have said husbandry is the most important no matter what you have.
I love both DSB and BB and I always tell people whichever way they want to setup their tank is fine with me and I will help them achieve there goals,
(I know I get some flack from DSB people on this one) One thing I do notice on these threads is that when people start a thread and talk about their DSB I very rarely see BB people jumping in and discuss a BB option, but when one starts a BB thread DSB lovers seem to try and jump in and canââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t wait for a BB tank to crash to say ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œI told you soââ"šÂ¬Ã‚Â
I donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t care if you have BB and want to change to DSB and I donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t care it you have DSB and want to change to BB, I donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t even care if you want to use mud for your bottom or your aunt Gertrudeââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s old left over front door welcome mat, the main thing is finding a way to keep our tanks in perfect working order. So that everything thrives and we can enjoy some beautiful tanks. Weââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve all come a long way in the past few years and it keeps getting better with greater success rate, mainly since the addition of forums and the Internet that people can discuss and learn more about what causes things to happen in our tank and how to fix it or refine it.
First, I have a BB tank and enjoy the fact that I can keep a high flow without sand blowing all over the place, itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s easier to clean.
Second, Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve had DSB for many years and never had a problem and also think DSB has itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s benefits, as one poster said some corals prefer sand over BB.
Third, I donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t think BB or DSB is better than the other, itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s a matter of personal preference, also like some posters have said husbandry is the most important no matter what you have.
I love both DSB and BB and I always tell people whichever way they want to setup their tank is fine with me and I will help them achieve there goals,
(I know I get some flack from DSB people on this one) One thing I do notice on these threads is that when people start a thread and talk about their DSB I very rarely see BB people jumping in and discuss a BB option, but when one starts a BB thread DSB lovers seem to try and jump in and canââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t wait for a BB tank to crash to say ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œI told you soââ"šÂ¬Ã‚Â
I donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t care if you have BB and want to change to DSB and I donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t care it you have DSB and want to change to BB, I donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t even care if you want to use mud for your bottom or your aunt Gertrudeââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s old left over front door welcome mat, the main thing is finding a way to keep our tanks in perfect working order. So that everything thrives and we can enjoy some beautiful tanks. Weââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢ve all come a long way in the past few years and it keeps getting better with greater success rate, mainly since the addition of forums and the Internet that people can discuss and learn more about what causes things to happen in our tank and how to fix it or refine it.
G-money
Premium Member
Chaeto refused to grow when I changed to BB. Zoox seem to have no problem. I'd guess that by going to BB. there was magnitudes less detritus getting trapped in the Chaeto. Most macros are built to trap detritus, as that's going to ensure them a constant supply of nutes. It's the only way they can compete with bacteria. Take away the detritus and the algae can't compete.
I'd guess your chaeto grows after ROWA changing because of all the free iron released into the water. Water changes probably because there are still going to be some nutrients in your replacement water (via your salt) no matter how pure your RO/DI is. It doesn't make sense that detecting PO4 would coincide with lack of algae growth unless some other nute is lacking (NO3, Fe?).
RichConley
New member
I completely and utterly disagree. I've seen exactly the opposite. (although its changed a little with all the bannings/defections of some of the completely obnoxious people)
jay24k
Active member
I disagree with that too. I've never seen a BB crash just lightening issues. The major problem was the BB'ers dissing the the rest saying their tank was dirty and a sinkhole. However I think everything is better now. You still have a few who think each method is best but for the most part, most will agree both work if done correct and not one way is best. I got tired of bomber and the lackeys constantly berating people about having sand. I just ignored that thread but some people were unable to do so and fed fuel to the fire which led to what happened.
MiddletonMark
Premium Member
Folks, let's not rehash old history.
All I know is that I've gotten tired of substrate method/photo threads [of any `denomination'] that are relentlessly disrupted by folks wanting to argue the other side.
All I know is that I've gotten tired of substrate method/photo threads [of any `denomination'] that are relentlessly disrupted by folks wanting to argue the other side.
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comatose
Active member
I've never seen one crash either, a BB tank is very easy to clean and make right again compared to DSB, I also agree that there were objections on both sides of the wall, and it has settled down alot (thank god), as far as long term i can't vouch for BB as of yet and i dont think many others can either, cause i'm only into it for 2 years now, compared to over 15 years for DSB, but then again i never kept a DSB for more than 4 years at a time before i changed it over to new sand.
DSB does look more natural and i like the look also, and that is why i did what i did with my Starboard as far as covering it with a layer of CC. worked rather well for me.
I want what we all want, that is bright colorful corals that stay healthy and grow with little upkeep.
DSB does look more natural and i like the look also, and that is why i did what i did with my Starboard as far as covering it with a layer of CC. worked rather well for me.
I want what we all want, that is bright colorful corals that stay healthy and grow with little upkeep.
FastFish720
New member
I second that it's building a routine maintenance schedule and just growing in experience as a hobbyist that makes the most difference.
RichConley
New member
Theres a reason all the public aquariums use nothing but big becketts.
elephen
In Memoriam
May be able to arrange something like that.
As far as hiding something, I thought I have always been out in the open with my opinion and experience on skimmers. I have run just about every kind of skimmer out there, had a very nice dual recirc skimmer then decided to use a beckett after seeing a buddy's skimmer's performace compared to mine... So I took the plunge, got a Precision Marine Bullet-2 and a Pan World 150-PS to power it and all I can say is wow. Now I never owned a BK or Deltec since IMO they are overpriced and you can get the same exact quality (and almost exact skimmer) for much much less.
Thats just my experience over the years.
