The BB movement

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7081505#post7081505 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RCS
One of the reasons I like my sand bed is simply because of what it produces: lots of microfauna and food for organisms in my tank. Living creatures like 'pods, mysids, bristleworms, etc. serve the dual purpose of providing a natural food source/supplement while keeping the tank clean at the same time by consuming excess food and waste.
Sand is in no way required for this. I have all these organisms in my sandless tank. In fact, IME bistleworms and the various crustaceans (pods, et al) associate with the rock far more than they do with sand. About all you will find in your sand that you may not find in rock are certain worms.

There's a multitude of 'pods, snails, mini-stars, worms, etc. that inhabit my sand bed. Nothing larger that disturbs the bed any more than that. Nitrates and phopshates are at zero after two years with no water changes, so I believe it's really more than just a pretty face. ;)
I have all these things in my tank. Plenty of them. :)
As for your last two sentences, all I can say is "tick tock, tick tock". :D



If you like doing constant maintenance, lots of water changes, testing, etc etc., then more power to you.
I can only say that you have some heavy misconceptions about what it's like to run a tank without a sandbed. :rolleyes:
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7081175#post7081175 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NoSchwag
cmon, please??

You did this..

http://thereeftank.com/forums/showpost.php?p=641739&postcount=60

What's the difference? I'm pretty sure your camera can take a 10 sec. video clip and it'll only take 5 min to upload it. We both have time to sit on a BB board waiting for new posts, don't you think a video to help people tune their skimmers is time better spent? :)

Honestly, If a recirc needlewheel can perform like that, I will sell my wonderful MR2 tomorrow and pick one up. I would happily trade in the heat, noise, and power consumption of this skimmer, but not at the cost of performance.


Well considering I am at work 70-80 hours a week yes I have better things to do than take a video of my skimmer. I think at the point I take videos of my equiptment running I hang this hobby up. Pictures are a little different. Now on the other hand I have said that they both skimmers work great. My corals look great, in both color and growth. :) No offense but when I do have time to actually be home and actually look at my tank I want to spend that time enjoying the tank, not taking videos of my equiptment. :rolleyes: I know what it does I know how it works and I don't need to take a video to confirm that for me cause last time I checked I could care less what you or anyone else on a BB thinks of my tank and how it runs. All that matters is that I am happy with it.

:D
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7081946#post7081946 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by G-money



As for your last two sentences, all I can say is "tick tock, tick tock". :D


[/B]



Chalk one up for experience there:D
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7081539#post7081539 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NoSchwag
Anyone else have HUGE pods and bristleworms under their starboard??

I have a huge bristleworm. It's about a foot long. Normally it hides in the rockwork, but every once in a while takes a jaunt under the starboard to see if there is anything good to eat down there.
 
I should also mention that I have a mandarin who's almost 6 years old. She's spent the last 18 or so months without sand.
 
Whoah easy there, count to 5 ;). I just figured you would want to help people with recirc needlewheels tune their skimmer to skim wet. I also see you posting pictures of your skimmer and your skimmate, I don't see the difference of posting a video.

I'm sorry you think down on me for posting a video of my skimmer, I just want to help people make the right choice when possible. I like giving back to the community.

Not for nothing but you could have posted a clip in the time it took you to take out that glass, pour skimmate into it, bust out your camera, take a picture, upload the picture, post the picture, and wash the glass. If you want to prove a point, nows the time.

I agree with you 100% though, "Pictures are a little different", a lot different IMO. I looked at a few pictures of peoples skimmers skimming wet and I figured out how to get my skimmer to do that, but man I wish I had a video 6 months ago. I really hope the video helps Wiskey and whoever else to adjust their skimmers.

I'm sorry if I offended you by asking you to post a video. :beer:
 
I feel that if you can't "tune" your skimmer via a picture you have other problems. It isn't that hard to figure out my friend. When I get around to it I will take a video for you. After that I will write a pop up book on how to adjust a skimmer to run wet . This ain't rocket science guys.
 
Chalk one up for experience there

I guess my nearly 9 years (more than the previous poster) of experience coupled with the fact that I used to run a business setting up and maintaining tanks for numerous people, along with the fact I've been breeding both freshwater and marine fish, inverts and propagating corals for the last 5-6 years doesn't count for anything? :rolleyes:

I should also mention that I have a mandarin who's almost 6 years old. She's spent the last 18 or so months without sand.

Congrats. Mine normally eat frozen right away. How about trying to raise some baby Banggais in your tank and baby maximas without feeding them. Let me know how that works. ;)

Sand is in no way required for this. I have all these organisms in my sandless tank.

Again, I'll disagree with this statement, unless you're intentionally blowing your detritus onto your rockwork. I understand that you're likely keeping most of it in suspension and removing mechanically. I'm not, and don't ever need to.

In fact, IME bistleworms and the various crustaceans (pods, et al) associate with the rock far more than they do with sand. About all you will find in your sand that you may not find in rock are certain worms.

I'm sure if you did an analysis between the microfauna in sand and on your rock, it's quiet varied. But then again, you can likely easily find this on most good reef sites as well. And without sand, where else would they associate?

Besides "certain worms" I've also got my cerith snails (species hasn't been narrowed down yet) and another small variety of snail breeding in my sandbed. And LOTS of brittlestars, who, although they're found on rockwork as well, seem to be much more plentiful in the sand. Oh, and quite likely denitrifying bacteria.

I'm not trying to start an argument (or I guess maybe continue and argument...I think that started a loooooong time ago! :lol: ), but just stating my experience. I'm open-minded and if you read any previous posts, will gladly admit that great tanks can be run a variety of different ways if you know what you're doing.

I can only say that you have some heavy misconceptions about what it's like to run a tank without a sandbed.

Enlighten me. You're saying you don't do water changes, test or add anything, or siphon detritus from your BB tank?
 
If you have time to write a pop-up book, you definitely have time to post a video. ;)

I tuned my skimmer without a video, but man with a video it would have been much easier. It literally took me a few months to get mine right without overflowing, that's why I'm all about the video. Maybe I was too dumb to figure it out quicker (i'm not the smartest fish in the flock), but I'm glad I stuck with it.

Thanks for agreeing to post the clip, I'm sure it will help people a lot. :thumbsup:


Don't forget to clean the neck really well, it helps to see what the bubbles are doing.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7074971#post7074971 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by elephen
As far as hiding something, I thought I have always been out in the open with my opinion and experience on skimmers. I have run just about every kind of skimmer out there, had a very nice dual recirc skimmer then decided to use a beckett after seeing a buddy's skimmer's performace compared to mine... So I took the plunge, got a Precision Marine Bullet-2 and a Pan World 150-PS to power it and all I can say is wow. Now I never owned a BK or Deltec since IMO they are overpriced and you can get the same exact quality (and almost exact skimmer) for much much less.

Thats just my experience over the years.

All people have to do is think about contact time. With single pass becketts the water goes thru the beckett once and still has a large amount of contact time without going thru the skimmer pump again. With recirculating needle wheels water get subjected to the pump again and again before exiting.

I've actually seen a deltec, BK and Barr beckett skimming on the same large tank. The barr got darker skimmate and about 2-3x more than the others. I was going to upgrade to an ap702 or bk250/300 but decided on saving the money and getting better performance with a sk5220.

I know that it will need a strong pump so thats why I'm getting the largest tunze that runs off 200W and does 2750gph at 12ft. The 200W is slightly more than the other skimmers but I can also tee of my return and run the beckett recirculating in the sump.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7067852#post7067852 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MiddletonMark
after a while quit posting much, as they're sick of being hassled.

I know you were referring to something specific but this applies to a lot of things here.
 
All people have to do is think about contact time. With single pass becketts the water goes thru the beckett once and still has a large amount of contact time without going thru the skimmer pump again. With recirculating needle wheels water get subjected to the pump again and again before exiting.

I'm confused here. Are you saying the Beckett has more contact time, or the recirculating needle-wheel?

I've actually seen a deltec, BK and Barr beckett skimming on the same large tank. The barr got darker skimmate and about 2-3x more than the others. I was going to upgrade to an ap702 or bk250/300 but decided on saving the money and getting better performance with a sk5220.

Was it a fair comparison? I could put a Seaclone and a Deltec on the same tank and make the Seaclone perform better if you wanted. ;)

I tuned my skimmer without a video, but man with a video it would have been much easier. It literally took me a few months to get mine right without overflowing, that's why I'm all about the video. Maybe I was too dumb to figure it out quicker (i'm not the smartest fish in the flock), but I'm glad I stuck with it.

Mental capacity aside, everyone's skimmer will react a little different on different tanks, even if they've got the same skimmer. I don't think watching someone else, video or pop-up book as the case may be, will apply completely to you tuning your own skimmer on your own tank. And depending on accumulation, they'll all need different tweaking and tuning as time goes on. Just like BB and SB, it's what works for you (nice segue, right?). :D
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7083102#post7083102 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redwinger02
I feel that if you can't "tune" your skimmer via a picture you have other problems. It isn't that hard to figure out my friend. When I get around to it I will take a video for you. After that I will write a pop up book on how to adjust a skimmer to run wet . This ain't rocket science guys.

I guess I am the retard this was directed at,....

I am just trying to get the best infomation I can, using the resources available to me, Research!!

How do I get an advance copy of your pop-up book?

Whiskey
 
Mental capacity aside, everyone's skimmer will react a little different on different tanks, even if they've got the same skimmer. I don't think watching someone else, video or pop-up book as the case may be, will apply completely to you tuning your own skimmer on your own tank. And depending on accumulation, they'll all need different tweaking and tuning as time goes on.

A becket with a pressure rated pump skimming wet, is a becket with a pressure rated pump skimming wet. It just takes different adjustments to get it there. A video shows you the end product. You can't go If you don't know where you're going.

Also there is no real need to tweak it, this is a common misconception about the becket. MINOR readjustments is all that's needed after breaking the skimmer down and cleaning it, or if you let the neck get dirty..
 
Wiskey I'm not sure if anyone has ever told you this, but when adjusting your skimmer, only make SMALL adjustments, then wait awhile. Don't get gung hoe and turn your gate valve a 1/4 turn.

When I adjust mine, I put pressure on the gatevalve until I feel it turn, that's it. There is no turning the knob to adjust, just cracking it. 1/30th of a turn on the valve is the difference between wet skimming and overflowing.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7083637#post7083637 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NoSchwag
Wiskey I'm not sure if anyone has ever told you this, but when adjusting your skimmer, only make SMALL adjustments, then wait awhile. Don't get gung hoe and turn your gate valve a 1/4 turn.

When I adjust mine, I put pressure on the gatevalve until I feel it turn, that's it. There is no turning the knob to adjust, just cracking it. 1/30th of a turn on the valve is the difference between wet skimming and overflowing.

I know, I am just not there yet, I am working 12-14 hour days, so I am just making a small adjustment, then waiting until I get home or wake up to check it then make another small adjustment. I am perty close though.

Whiskey
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7083531#post7083531 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Wiskey
I guess I am the retard this was directed at,....

I am just trying to get the best infomation I can, using the resources available to me, Research!!

How do I get an advance copy of your pop-up book?

Whiskey

Not directed at you at all bud. All I am saying is that wet is wet and dry is dry it is that simple IMO. IMO it is not that hard to adjust a skimmer to visually get dry foam or wet foam.
 
I have a little, itty-bitty, needle-wheel EuroReef ES5-3 on my 180. Itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s not even a re-circulating skimmer and it wet skims perfectly fine. The only time I really appreciate my beckett-driven Bullet 3 is when I wish to remove particulates real fast. Under those conditions, the Bullet 3 will blow the ES5-3 away.

Itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s kind of like the difference between owning a Toyota Camry and a Nissan 350Z. A vast majority of the time, both cars will get you from one place to another about the same. But, if you are in a tight spot, and need to get away fast, the Z will leave the Camry in the dust.
 
A becket with a pressure rated pump skimming wet, is a becket with a pressure rated pump skimming wet. It just takes different adjustments to get it there. A video shows you the end product. You can't go If you don't know where you're going.

Agreed. I took it as he was asking for pretty specific directions, which is really all a video would show. For example:

1/ start with the gate valve open all the way
2/ turn back 3/4 of a turn
3/ close intake valve to 75% of capacity

Exactly directions like these will vary by tank. The rule of thumb I've alway gone by is to try to skim about a cup per day worth for skimmate (I think this is what Anthony Calfo suggests, and I trust his opinion). The adjustment on my tank and your tank will be completely different depending on waste load, water tension, temperature, and any other of variables we could throw at it.

I guess I am the retard this was directed at,....

Oh, come now, there's enough other people to throw insults at you without demeaning yourself! :lol:
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7083777#post7083777 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Weatherman
I have a little, itty-bitty, needle-wheel EuroReef ES5-3 on my 180. Itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s not even a re-circulating skimmer and it wet skims perfectly fine. The only time I really appreciate my beckett-driven Bullet 3 is when I wish to remove particulates real fast. Under those conditions, the Bullet 3 will blow the ES5-3 away.

Itââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s kind of like the difference between owning a Toyota Camry and a Nissan 350Z. A vast majority of the time, both cars will get you from one place to another about the same. But, if you are in a tight spot, and need to get away fast, the Z will leave the Camry in the dust.

Let me ask you.. Would that skimmer cut it with a tank full of reefbuilding corals and a heavy bioload?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7083690#post7083690 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redwinger02
Not directed at you at all bud. All I am saying is that wet is wet and dry is dry it is that simple IMO. IMO it is not that hard to adjust a skimmer to visually get dry foam or wet foam.

I wish it was that easy with a becket. It's a whole different ball game when you are talking pressure rated pumps and independent air (that sucks in huge amounts of air) and water level control.
 
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