The Gapper 400GPD Light Commercial RO from Buckeye Hydro

[EagleFF]

With 1700 ppm feedwater, this must be well water, correct?

Have you had the well water tested? With water this bad, testing is really a "must do." In the water treatment biz, we can deal with almost any water, once we know what the contaminants are, and their concentration. Drinking Water Test

Do you have any treatment equipment in place - like a softener?

You mentioned having two RO membranes. Are they plumbed in series (waste from first feeding the second)? If so, that's not a good configuration given your feedwater.

Super high feedwater TDS requires higher pressure - at least 1 psi boost for each 100 ppm.

What brand of membranes are you using?

What is your waste water to purified water ratio? Give us a call if you're not clear how to measure that - it's quick and easy.

If your RO water is 65, and your feed is 1700, that's a 96% rejection rate - pretty good all things considered. If you remove the second membrane (assuming it is plumbed in series) your RO water TDS will go down.

Was it your DI that was installed upside down?

Russ

Thanks Russ for the reply,Yes I am on well water, I sent a sample for testing per my purchase agreement for drinkability, I do have a water softener in place and run my system 3 inches from its discharge, I am using the PureFlo 2 150 GPD,w/ a BRS 150 GPD upgrade membrane, I hooked them up per BRS instructions, as far as PSI, I have no clue, the pre filter is a 1 micron,carbon block, activated carbon are all from pureflo(coralife) production is around 50 gal in 4 1/2 hrs or so, I have never checked the rejection rate.
PSI to my softener is only from the pressure tank around 20 lbs, I have often wondered running 2 systems, after looking into this system, having larger filters, I am wondering if this wouldn't be a better fit for me. I did have my softener checked 4 months ago to be sure it cycles correctly, and is actually doing the job I paid for, I do know the water is high in calcium.

 

[EagleFF]

not the DI upside down, my center carbon block filter on RO system

 

[jason2459]

If your carbon stage was bypassed and your dropping chlorine into the well then there's a very good chance your membranes are damaged.

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

Thanks Russ for the reply,Yes I am on well water, I sent a sample for testing per my purchase agreement for drinkability, I do have a water softener in place and run my system 3 inches from its discharge, I am using the PureFlo 2 150 GPD,w/ a BRS 150 GPD upgrade membrane, I hooked them up per BRS instructions.

With the quality of your feedwater I'd suggest you DON'T use two membranes plumbed in series.

Is the hardness of your softened water <1 gpg?

As far as PSI, I have no clue,

This is a critical piece of info. You'll want to get an add on pressure gauge kit with a liquid filled pressure gauge, and put it after the pump and before the membrane.

...the pre filter is a 1 micron,carbon block, activated carbon are all from pureflo(coralife).

Hmm. Are you injecting chlorine or another oxidant into your well water? Assuming not, then your prefilters are not what I would recommend. No need for two carbon stages as they have no chlorine and presumably no organics to remove. Does your 1 mic sed filter clog quickly? The softener acts as a sediment filter as well.

production is around 50 gal in 4 1/2 hrs or so, I have never checked the rejection rate.

That equates to 266 gallons per day from a 150 gpd system. Hmm. Something is not right here.
If your RO water is 65, and your feed is 1700, that's a 96% rejection rate - pretty good all things considered. If you remove the second membrane your RO water TDS will go down, and your rejection rate will go up.

We also want to know recovery - meaning what percent of the feedwater is being recovered as RO water. People in this hobby are accustomed to thinking about recovery in terms of the ratio of concentrate (aka "waste water") to permeate (aka "purified water"). This is easy to calculate. Line up about 8 identical cups in front of the system. With your waste water tube in one hand, and your purified water tube in the other, how many glasses do you fill with waste water in the time it takes you to fill one with purified water?

PSI to my softener is only from the pressure tank around 20 lbs,

Your well pump is controlled by a pressure switch. Residential applications like yours typically use a 30/50 switch, or a 40/60 switch. A 30/50 switch for instance will turn the pump on when the pressure in the tank drops to 30, and will turn the pump off when it reaches 50 psi. So you should have a range of pressures coming out of your tank. If it were my house I'd investigate this further as 20 psi is very very low for a residence.

I have often wondered running 2 systems

This is a potential configuration you might water to look at. Run the RO water (not DI) from the system into a tank, and then run the water from the tank into an RODI. We'd set the recovery of the first system pretty low, and the recovery on the second system very high. You'll go through more well water, which just means more expense for electricity to run your well pump.

I did have my softener checked 4 months ago to be sure it cycles correctly, and is actually doing the job I paid for, I do know the water is high in calcium.

Calcium and magnesium are the two primary constituents in what is referred to as "hardness." A softener is an "ion exchanger" - it removes Ca and Mg and replaces them with sodium. The sodium comes from all that salt you dump in the bin.

There's a fair amount to do to get to the bottom of your whole house issues, and your RODI issues - too complicated to be covered in a thread like this. If you'd like help, please contact us.

Russ
513-312-2343

 

[Ron Reefman]

This is one step larger than The Gapper - it has a motor and pump typical of commercial RO's of about 4000 gpd and less. These are one of the major components that makes the price of commercial RO's higher. But if you can land one for $200, that's a beautiful thing!

Ron - You're using one or two 20" x 2.5" carbon block(s) - can't recall how much we re-configured your system) - be careful to change these on an appropriately short schedule - remember they are treating all the waste water too.

Russ

I always like good deals on used equipment. This one even came with a spare motor and pump head! I'd have bought it if he had asked $500.

Thanks for the reminder on the carbon. I'm still just using the one. You'll see an order soon! LOL!:thumbsup:

 

[EagleFF]

With the quality of your feedwater I'd suggest you DON'T use two membranes plumbed in series.

I will remove one membrane when the new ones come in, and test the TDS,Also I will do the cup tsts as you recommended to see the rejection rate, as for whats in the water I have no clue, I only mad sure the water was bacteria free when I purchased this house 5 years ago, I burn through 1 canister of DI resin within 55 gal water made, luckily I recharge my resin to cut down on the replacement cost, I did however order 15 lbs of new DI resin.
you tell me what and where I need to send my water for proper testing to configure the best RO system available and I'll make that happen.

on a side note I did not mean to hijack this thread, Jason forgive me lol

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

Water Test

 

[jason2459]

Not a problem at all EagleFF. Glad you are working through the issues.

 

[EagleFF]

Ok Russ I removed the second membrane, all filters are new, I am now at 66 to 70 TDS coming from RO system, I am making 1 cup of good water to 1/2 cup of rejected water,
the test link you posted really doesnt give alot of info, is this a test to do at home or send off for testing?
and which test do I need to buy, there are 3 options. thanks for any help you can provide.
Ive got your number, I'll give you a call in the am about this.

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

I'll give you a call in the am about this.

Perfect!

 

[jason2459]

Well, I'm finally getting around to swapping my DI stages and new DI into the last stage... Almost 6 months later!! That's awesome. I'm still reading "0" coming out but I'm seeing the bottom of the second stage changing colors. Time to swap.

I'm still getting about a TDS of 350 to 380 from the tap and 2-3 TDS out of the membrane and into the DI stages. I could not be happier at all with this unit. At 6 months I normally would be preemptively swapping out the prestages before RO membrane. It feels weird not doing it but holding off for 1 year with this larger 20" stages. I am getting 0 free/total chlorine coming out. Wish I had this system from the beginning. Not that the BRS rodi unit wasn't great but this setup is just a step above and for me is perfect.

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

Nice!

 

[jason2459]

I wish I had this system years ago. I use it all the time for just RO for many other things like a couple small freshwater tanks, reptiles, lab rinsing, etc and the speed and low TDS is perfect.

 

[jason2459]

I can still absolutley 1zillion% recommend the Gapper. I am changing out DI like only once every 6 months and I'm just now preemptively changing out my carbon blocks. I'm not registering any chlorine post them but it's been over a year now and figure it's time.*


Ordered them again from Buckeye. Very impressed with the volume that has gone through this unit and its chlorine reduction capacity. So, I decided to get the chloraguard filters again even though I don't have chloramines. They have a high chlorine rating and the fact I'm still registering 0 total chlorine is awesome.*

http://www.buckeyehydro.com/chloraguard-chloramine-carbon-block/

 

[jason2459]

Here we go, now it's straightened out and makes a lot more sense. Now it's much easier to get to the strainer to clean out. Like once a year or so when swapping out the prefilter?

I finally got to use this setup officially after swapping out my prefilters tonight. Worked great. Rinsed out the prefilters straight to the floor drain. No pump needed or membrane involved.

I'd check the screen in the strainer every six months, and a week after installing new carbon blocks. You can change that schedule based upon what you see.
Russ

I need to remember to check the strainer next week.


TDS going in tonight was 348. Out of the membrane pre-DI was 2. Funny to say but I'm still excited over this rodi unit. Never disappoints.