The Hippo Endeavor

[Staaan]

So I purchased my first tang about 3 weeks ago. A "standard" Blue Hippo.

He went into my 46g Bowfront, he is about 2" and is eating like a pig.

My problem with him... of course... you guessed it... ich.

It seems that no one is an exception to the so called "ich magnet" fish, the Hippo Tang.

I observed his behavior in the LFS before I bought... did not notice any "thrashing" around and having him/her self rub up against rocks/glass/sand etc.

He was the most voracious eater out of the bunch that I chose from.

So what to do?

When I purchased him my tank was still being cleared of diatom (was waiting for the Biopellets to kick in) and I fed him minimally only due to the fact that I had a diatom forest and this little guy was nice and plump because literally any moment I came up to the tank he was munching on diatom all over the tank.

He was a bit "shy" at first.. when I would walk up to the tank he would bullet as fast as he could into 1 of 4 hiding places in my tank. But not he comes right up to great me at the glass, I'm sure with the thought that he is about to receive food.

Anyhow... he is eating like I mentioned above.. but the trophant stage of the ich seems to be getting gradually worse.

He seems to be getting riddled in more and more with "white spots", some periods of heavy breathing (not ALL the time).. I just don't know what to do.

For the past few days... I'd come over to the tank and see him just laying on the sandbed on his side barely moving.. and even becoming pale at times.

I've been trying to get him to eat the nori sheets that I bought but he doesn't seem to take them. And as I've been informed only about 10% of the hippo's diet should consist of meaty foods. But since he hasn't even touched the nori (even after soaking in selcon & garlic) I just give him the Reef Nutrition Arctipods Concentrate (with some garlic & selcon).

He quickly raises off the sandbed and jets to the food and eats like nothing is wrong...

I really don't have the room to set-up a hospital/quarantine tank to attempt hypo-salinity or copper dosing or really any medication of any sort... and I feel that it will only cause him more unneeded stress.

Any one have any advice/experiences that they can share with me?

The fish isn't even dead.. and I'm already bummed out.. lol.

 

[THEDLO]

The laying down is a sign of stress as well as their coping mechanism, and the color changes is another sign of stress...for obvious reasons.

Here is what i did when my hippo was infected;

1, I got 2 cleaner shrimp, one skunk and one fire shrimp. As i'm sure you know these will not cure ich, however the picking relieves stress, much like scratching an itch, and making the fish comfortable is number 1.

2, I performed several fresh water dips. The effectiveness of this is debatable because the parasite is mostly in the skin not on it. To make sense of it think of a FW dip as an extreme dose of hypo salinity. my results where good, and usually by the next day the fish was almost completely clear of spots. now can i say that the reduction in white spots is directly related to my FW dips? No because this was done in my basement in a uncontrolled setting, and not a marine bio lab, but every time i did a FW dip the fish was noticeably better by the next day.

3, I Close/covered the hole that the hippo would sleep in. Reason behind that is that ich hangs out in low current area--that hole, so in essence the fish is reinfecting its self unintentionally every night it goes to bed.

4, i fed heavy. I made sure it received enough food every day. misys, nori, etc...you name it and i fed it!

Disclosure;
Note that this is all based on my personal observation, and therefore i can not make any claims saying my actions were directly involved in the curing of my hippo tang only that they "may" have had a impact. There were just too many variables present, like water quality, type of tank mates, how close my tank resembles its natural environment, the level of stress it was under and how i interacted with it and it with me, the list can go on and on... the only claim i can make is that i, to this day, have yet to loose a fish to ich.

hope this helps.

 

[jarrett shark]

I told you to go yellow,LOL

I can give you my 10gal Qt if you want, i know you said you have no room but I know you can make room down there,LOL

 

[Staaan]

My mom is gonna kick me out of the house if i bring in another tank in lmao. I have 2 sumps and 2 tanks to sell still lmao

 

[jarrett shark]

i would use that 6gal tank as a qt

 

[fishome25]

soak the food in kent marine c

 

[Staaan]

Looks interesting... has Kent Marine C worked for you, Fishome?


Anyhow.. I learned my lesson. Shoulda just stuck with my gut feeling and skipped out on tangs all together.. seems to be a general consensus that no tang is suitable for a 3foot tank (at least in the long term)....

 

[THEDLO]

Anyhow.. I learned my lesson. Shoulda just stuck with my gut feeling and skipped out on tangs all together.. seems to be a general consensus that no tang is suitable for a 3foot tank (at least in the long term)....

lol if only other people saw it so easily. not that im in a better situation, 2 tangs in a 4 footer. im itching to upgrade...maybe in the summer :hammer: i want somthing big and shallow! 24" its my max hight. as for the width...who knows..i can get acrilic in 4x8 sheets...so maybe a 8'x4'x2' that is of course if i manage to find a place to put it :lolspin:

 

[OzoneParkGuy]

In extreme circumstances where medication is not available I would as D-Lo pointed out, do freshwater dips to try and control the infestation. Heavy breathing are tell tale signs that it has spread and is infecting the gills. FW dip will help relieve this to some extent. Best to get a small QT and help him before his death is on your conscience.

 

[THEDLO]

In extreme circumstances

lol im an extremist....

but yea like noel says reserve my methods for last resorts, if you can QT then do it. Its much more stress free for the hobbyist then making the gamble like i did. ive been lucky, an outlier if you will.

 

[aagresti]

Anyhow.. I learned my lesson. Shoulda just stuck with my gut feeling and skipped out on tangs all together.. seems to be a general consensus that no tang is suitable for a 3foot tank (at least in the long term)....

I have a 3foot tank with 2 tangs (yellow & desjardini). both seems to be doing well, although the yellow did pick on the desjardini the first few days.

 

[THEDLO]

I have a 3foot tank with 2 tangs (yellow & desjardini). both seems to be doing well, although the yellow did pick on the desjardini the first few days.

the issue with people keeping small tangs in a small tank isnt that they wont survive, its that they may stop growing..and when that happens theres no way to know when the tank is getting to small since there are no obvious indicators; and since most tangs get aggressive behavior isnt the best determinant. thats the real reason they say to leave them for the bigger tanks. its just because in those larger tanks their growth rate is normal, and not subject to their environment only the availability of food. so a way around that is upgrade Also some tangs require more swimming room by nature e.g. the naso genus(vlamingi) and some of the acanthurus(sohal), that is why it is expressed that they are out of the question for anything smaller then a 220.

best example is my purple tang, it used to be housed in a 72 bow which is 3' long. it has been in captivity for 2 ears now...it size should be about 7" maybe more but its actually only 4" and although its disproportion-ness makes it cute its not how it should be based on age..and from what i recall once growth is stunted it does not resume its course in spite of being exposed to better conditions.

HTH

 

[aagresti]

the issue with people keeping small tangs in a small tank isnt that they wont survive, its that they may stop growing..

but i don't see that as a problem, but rather a good thing. if the fish continued to grow I would have to upgrade (which might not be feasible either financially or simply due to size constraints.) or sell it and buy another which is just troublesome.

 

[THEDLO]

but i don't see that as a problem, but rather a good thing. if the fish continued to grow I would have to upgrade (which might not be feasible either financially or simply due to size constraints.) or sell it and buy another which is just troublesome.

i know and its logical that one would see that as a benefit if the fish would just stop growing. who wouldn't want a miniature giraffe?

The thing is that its not ethical...thats the real reason. as is we already play god just by participating in this hobby, so is it really necessary to tempt the devil? Plus there may be certain things that my happen to a fish internally if its not allow to fully grow, what? i dont know but im sure there are some health risks involved. Just think would you be ok with keeping a blue whale in a residential pool if its need where being met? probably not, simply because its not natural and PETA would kill you lol. like i said, there is nothing wrong with keeping small tangs in a small tank for short term. Our overall goal in keeping fish is to provide a natural habitat for them, so it only makes sense to provide a setting that allows for them to grow and behave naturally. for this reason ive been eying the 150 as a possible solution to increase the swimming room for my naso (hes about 4.5-5") but aqua-scaping that thing would be a pain....

 

[Staaan]

Good info on Hippos & tangs in general.

Good info on Hippos & tangs in general.

Well.. I spoke with Dom from Diamonds of The Reef.

Let me post this informative message he wrote to me after I bombarded him with questions.. lol.

From Dom --
"The hippo tang will be fine in your tank for a while but there are two things to be concerned about:

1- Needs to eat a lot of algae and very little meaty foods (i.e. arctic pods)
2- When very small it is easier to keep them well fed in a smaller tank but it will only last about a year in your tank. Anything longer than that you risk stunting which is fine for some fish but not hippo tangs and I'll explain why in a sec.

The reason the two points above are important is the future health of the fish and your ability to find a new home. When tangs eat too much meaty foods they eventually get fatty liver and potentially die. It may take 2-3 years and sometimes a little more so people don't realize it until suddenly out of nowhere the fish dies. Another thing that happens when they get too much meaty foods is the fins start to look like they have fin rot. This also happens to some tangs when they do not have enough swimming room. Hippos are at the top of the list. Take a look at this black tang from eating too much meaty foods. It took about two years for this to happen and its behavior is 100% normal: http://reefbum.com/linked/april 17...0tankpic1a.jpg

I am pointing this out because even if you plan on moving the hippo later, it will be near impossible if it looks like that black tang. I have seen a lot of cases like this with hippo tangs. I believe this is because many people buy them tiny and don't realize how fast they grow in a short period of time and their nutritional needs. So I would say depending on how small the hippo is, you probably have about a year before its growth becomes inhibited and you risk it looking like that black tang. There are exceptions of course but its important to recognize that fact, they are the exception. Most of the time the hippo will end up looking like that black tang."

 

[fishome25]

Looks interesting... has Kent Marine C worked for you, Fishome?
QUOTE]

yea I've seen many fish fight off the parasites using this and no actual medications

 

[THEDLO]

Well.. I spoke with Dom from Diamonds of The Reef.

Let me post this informative message he wrote to me after I bombarded him with questions.. lol.

From Dom --
"The hippo tang will be fine in your tank for a while but there are two things to be concerned about:

1- Needs to eat a lot of algae and very little meaty foods (i.e. arctic pods)
2- When very small it is easier to keep them well fed in a smaller tank but it will only last about a year in your tank. Anything longer than that you risk stunting which is fine for some fish but not hippo tangs and I'll explain why in a sec.

The reason the two points above are important is the future health of the fish and your ability to find a new home. When tangs eat too much meaty foods they eventually get fatty liver and potentially die. It may take 2-3 years and sometimes a little more so people don't realize it until suddenly out of nowhere the fish dies. Another thing that happens when they get too much meaty foods is the fins start to look like they have fin rot. This also happens to some tangs when they do not have enough swimming room. Hippos are at the top of the list. Take a look at this black tang from eating too much meaty foods. It took about two years for this to happen and its behavior is 100% normal: http://reefbum.com/linked/april 17...0tankpic1a.jpg

I am pointing this out because even if you plan on moving the hippo later, it will be near impossible if it looks like that black tang. I have seen a lot of cases like this with hippo tangs. I believe this is because many people buy them tiny and don't realize how fast they grow in a short period of time and their nutritional needs. So I would say depending on how small the hippo is, you probably have about a year before its growth becomes inhibited and you risk it looking like that black tang. There are exceptions of course but its important to recognize that fact, they are the exception. Most of the time the hippo will end up looking like that black tang."

thanks for sharing, i certainly need to boost my algae feeding. i do every 3-4 days...not good enough. In my defense i under fed because of my in adequate skimmer...but thats all about to change :spin1:

 

[Staaan]

No problem buddy.

 

[Staaan]

Found Hippo stuck to MP10 last night. Dead. This sucks.

Anyway.. I learned my lesson.. No tangs for me

My next question is..

Do I have to remove my clownfish in order to eradicate the ich?

I read the tank has to be fish free for 6 weeks but I read that clowns rarely get ich and are very resistant. So are they the exception to the rule?

I really want to go out and buy some suitable fish for my tank but I need to make sure the ich is gone...

 

[DrHarryLopez]

Sorry for your lost, baby fish are not as strong. I like bigger fish as I feel they are stronger...

Leave the clowns.