The Moorish Idol Thread

[slate55]

I was searching around at different frozen foods that contain sponge and this seems to be a common claim
"Developed specifically for saltwater angelfish and their dietary need for sponge. High in freshwater to streamline digestion and help purge salt from the digestive System"
I know we're talking about Idols here but I wonder if they have the same needs?

 

[Allmost]

Allmost,

I talked to the brightwell representative at Reefstock last year and he told me that the Angelixer has no nutritional value. Its only purpose is to invoke a feeding response with Angels. I had just gotten my Idol a month before the event and was really curious about the product and almost bought some until he told me this.

wow really ?

Thanks, that's good info ... Im gonna stop using it as I think its making my water kinda dity too !

 

[Moorish_Idol]

Maybe if they eat mostly sponge in the wild a diet of mostly meat ruins their liver or produces digestive tract cancer.

This could be another interesting thing to look into....but supposedly they eat small crabs in the wild. This would be definitly something worth trying! maybe they just can't digest the meaty foods....

Paul, when you swam with them and watched them eat, was it ALL sponge or did you see them eat meaty foods also?

 

[Paul B]

The only thing I ever saw them eat was a lime green sticky sponge that grew in small patches about dinner plate size. But I did not live with them full time and I only spent about 6 hours underwater with them. They could have eaten pizza for all I know, but in almost all cases I saw what I think was the male traveling a long loop around a small coral reef and stopping every few minutes at small patches of this sponge. Then 30 seconds later the female would arrive and he would leave and go off looking for more sponge. But it looked like he knew where to look because these small reef patches only had one pair of Idols on it. In deeper water, 120' I did not observe this but it was also harder to swim with them at that depth because my bottom time was limited.
I assume they eat other things but you need to spend weeks with them to observe that.

 

[Moorish_Idol]

Hmmmm......all of this is so interesting. If I get a sponge and grow it out, will the idol devour it completely in one sitting, or will he graze on it over time? And will he take to it quickly? I will be going to Hawaii and I wonder if I can collect some...I'm going to try and give him a diet of 80% sponge and like 20% meat.

I don't think big systems are the solution to the idols problems. We keep tangs In 100 gallon tanks all the time and they're big swimmers like idols and they do fine....it's gotta be something internally. Plus, like tangs, I think they're sensitive to water parameter changes.

I wonder if having an idol dissected and looked at for any diseases or problems the idol could have. (of coarse after the idol diesof the problems they have) it sounds unethical to do this but it could be the answer and save many idols from their usual fate.

Just brainstorming here! I REALLY want to find a way to keep this beautiful fish

 

[Paul B]

Idols are picky as to what sponge they eat. I can collect 3 types of sponge but Idols only eat one of those. They are also not tangs which swim in large schools and live on mostly algae. Tangs are also not long distance swimmers like Idols because tangs stop every fifty feet or so to scrape algae, Idols go 50-100 yards, ignoring algae to find sponge. I would imagine if there is no sponge they will live on algae but they are much larger eaters than tangs.
Tangs have a simple digestive system and algae does not have much nutrition. An Idol's diet is much more complex. Not many fish live on sponge as that also does not have much nutrition but aparently it has something in it for this fish to evolve to use it for much of their diet.
Idols also live in pairs and that pair dominates a part of a reef. I would imagine they are finding something there which is hard to find as I don't see thousands of Moorish Idols on the same patch of reef like I do with tangs.
See this Idol at the bottom of the picture? He is alone and has the entire reef to pick through on his own which means he is looking for a type of food that most other fish do not eat. You never find a tang by himself.

 

[SDguy]

Many marine angelfish, as adults, eat almost nothing but sponges. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think it is pretty well accepted that if you get an angelfish small, and get it eating a good variety of aquarium foods, that it will live a good long life in an aquarium (there was someone with a REALLY old emp on here IIRC). I'm hoping for the same concept with my MI. I got it very small.

Also giving me a little extra hope is J. Randall's commonets found here:
ftp://ftp.fao.org/docrep/fao/009/y0870e/y0870e29.pdf

Specifically:

"This species, the only member of the family, lives on coral reefs or rocky substrata from the shallows to depths as great as 180 m. It is omnivorous but feeds more on animal life than algae; sponges dominate the animal diet, but bryozoans, small molluscs, small crustaceans, hydroids, and tunicates have also been found in the stomach contents. Sometimes seen in pairs, occasionally in aggregations. ........ The Moorish idol is important in the aquarium trade, but it does well only in large tanks. Aquarium fish collectors seek only the smaller individuals because adults are too large and do not adapt well to aquarium life. Aquarium fish feed well on chopped clams or mussels, brine shrimp, and tubifex worms. Individual fishes have been reported to survive as long as 10 years in an aquarium."

Makes me wonder about other issues causing low success rates, namely tank size. I know I've said this before, probably in this thread... the healthiest idols I've ever seen have always been in large shallow pools like shark pools at public aquariums. Another thought is simply quantity of food. I'm not sure everyone realizes how much food these fish need to eat. It really does a number on my water quality. This could be a bad cycle for someone unprepared, as it could lead to deteriorating tank conditions, and the loss of the idol?

Just throwing more ideas out there...

 

[Moorish_Idol]

A reason I think idols have such a bad reputation, is because a bunch of beginners or people who really don't know about these fish have attempted to keep them and fail miserably. Honestly idols are hard, but with the proper attention and dedication, they can thrive. they are different from angel fish, but I think need almost the same attention....

Paul, I see what you mean about tangs and idols......they are totally different fish. Something in the sponge is important, and they need good nutrients. Anouther theory I heard is that they have a small digestive system and they have to be constantly eating and have food in there system almost all the time.

Like I've said before I don't think tank size is a big problem. Tank size is about 100 gallons at minimum. You have to remember large aquarium=more stable water params. Plus public aquatiums have access to a lot of nutritional supplements they give the fish that we can't get. And have a lot of money that they can spend on advanced, expensive, specialized foods not available to us. And large aquariums= less stress. I just wonder what the lifespan is in public aquariums....

Do you know what species or type of sponge they eat??? I live in the east bottom corner of Washington state, so no access to oceans like you lucky guys have.....

 

[foxrazr]

Well my moorish idol from Divers Den came down with ick. TG I have him in quarantine. Decided to put cupramine. Will keep updating to see how he does. He still eats everything I put in the tank.

 

[slate55]

My idol from Liveaquaria is getting a little skinny he will only eat frozen brine and mysis. No luck with garlicxtreme or selcon with the pellets or nori going to get frozen ocean nutrition angel formula tonight hopefully he likes that

 

[SDguy]

My idol from Liveaquaria is getting a little skinny he will only eat frozen brine and mysis. No luck with garlicxtreme or selcon with the pellets or nori going to get frozen ocean nutrition angel formula tonight hopefully he likes that

Try minced scallop, shrimp, and especially clams from the grocery store. Leave the clam on the half shell at first.

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

slate55, how long have you had your idol?

I agree with Peter's recommendation on meaty seafood from the grocery store. I take fish (currently salmon), scallop and shrimp and chop them up, and then freeze the mixture in a ziplock bag. I take a small knife and peel off a bunch of small pieces and put them in the tank for my idol.

The angel formula with sponge should be good and fed most days. I use a small knife and cut off a bunch of small pieces and put them in the tank.

My idol likes Omega One veggie flakes with spirulina.

For your frozen brine, use Hikari spirulina-enriched brine.

Mix the other foods with mysis so that the fish starts eating the mysis and then eats the other food that is floating around.

Thaw your mysis on a spoon, and then put a bunch of pellets (start with NLS small) in the mysis juice, let them soak it up, and then let them dry out. Feed a couple at a time and the idol should go after them with the mysis smell. It may take a while so keep trying and don't give up. Also, soak flakes in mysis juice.

You can also soak pellets and flakes in garlic extract the same way. Let them dry out, and then feed sparingly over time until the idol begins to eat them.

Once it settles in, your idol should eat most foods.

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

Well my moorish idol from Divers Den came down with ick. TG I have him in quarantine. Decided to put cupramine. Will keep updating to see how he does. He still eats everything I put in the tank.

Mine went through cupramine just fine. I used a dosage in the .4 ppm range. Ramp the dosage up slowly, say over 4 days instead of the three days called for in the directions (day 1 = 1/3, day 2 none, day 3 = 1/3, and day 4 = 1/3).

I also treated my idol with Prazipro (2 doses) in case it had flukes.

 

[mrbncal]

I had great success in the short time I had my favorite SW fish, but unfortunately I had to remove him from my reef. He grew insanely fast and in the end he was snacking on corals I have had since I started reefing. I brought him to the LFS I part time at so I still get to see him a couple days a week. Hands down the coolest fish I ever had !

Sponge growing under the ledges helped get mine going. By the end he would eat mysis, clams and bloodworms out of my fingers. If I can swing another tank I will bring him back home. Did I mention it was the coolest SW fish I ever had? It was.

 

[Paul B]

A reason I think idols have such a bad reputation, is because a bunch of beginners or people who really don't know about these fish have attempted to keep them and fail miserably. Honestly idols are hard, but with the proper attention and dedication, they can thrive. they are different from angel fish, but I think need almost the same attention

This can be said about any fish but as I keep saying, Idols are different. I am not a beginner by any stretch and I have only been able to keep one 5 years which is a failure with almost any fish. If I can not keep one for at least about 15 years, It is still a failure. Many people get idols and think because it grows and lives 2 or 3 years that they will have this fish forever. So far, no one has kept one for a long time and Idols have been sold for at least 30 years as I have had them since then. They are not a new invention and were one of the first fish available after yellow tangs and angelfish.
Tangs and angelfish are easy and live forever but not idols. I wish you luck but food with sponge and the fact that they grow and get fat will not help with the longivity of this beautiful fish. Thousands have been in experienced hobbiests tanks and not one is still there after only 5 or 6 years.
We will learn the secret and I hope it is fast as I also love these fish.

 

[Moorish_Idol]

they grow and get fat will not help with the longivity of this beautiful fish.

It's just so weird........I mean that they just die. Paul, don't you use water straight from the ocean for your tank? If so, then if the problem is a certain bacteria or microorganism that our aquarium lacks, you would be able to supply that with the ocean water.....

I wish we could just get a moorish idol that had on it printed instructions that said how to properly care for it....

 

[Moontje]

My 4 Moorish idols likes to eat formula flake food from ocean nutritian and I got the last 3 from people who stopped their tank or from people they removed them because eating the corals.

 

[Dr Colliebreath]

Perhaps they just have short lifespans. The dolphin fish (mahi mahi) only lives 4-5 years, so there likely are other fish with short lives as well.

 

[slate55]

Try minced scallop, shrimp, and especially clams from the grocery store. Leave the clam on the half shell at first.

For the clams do I just split them and stick them in?
Or should I chop them up as well? Soak them in garlic?

 

[SDguy]

For the clams do I just split them and stick them in?
Or should I chop them up as well? Soak them in garlic?

I like to freeze them first, if thy weren't already, just in case. Then thaw, and yes, just open them, and leave the whole thing on half the shell. Eventually you can chop it up with no shell once he gets used to the taste. No garlic or other additives needed