The Moorish Idol Thread
- Thread starter zfunk007
- Start date
zfunk007
Premium Member
Looks awsome Chisel! Your Idol looks to be gaining weight and growing his banner back (by the way, that is the exact same 210 I have minus the overflows). Hope he continues to do well.
bartzenegger, thats great that you've had your Idol for 3 years. I can only hope mine will last that long. It is getting close to 1 year for mine though and he is still healthy as can be as far as I can tell. I also bought a new digital camera (the really nice expensive kind with the zoom lense, Nikkon D50) so I will be posting some really nice pictures of the Idol in the next few days. Pictures like I've never been able to get before (other digital cameras have a delay when you take the pictures, this one just snaps away). So that will be fun.
Also, I know this is a little off topic but it is going to relate to Moorish Idols. I have applied for a business loan to expand my business and if and when I get the loan I am going to try and set up a tank specifically for Moorish Idols. Not sure exactly how I am going to do it yet, but I would like some advice or ideas if anyone has any about this. I want it to be a really big tank and my goal is going to be to provide people with healthy Idols for sale. Rather than the anorexic ones you seem to find everywhere. I think that if a healthy eating Idol is provided from the beginning it would help their survivial rate in captivity.
We will see...
bartzenegger, thats great that you've had your Idol for 3 years. I can only hope mine will last that long. It is getting close to 1 year for mine though and he is still healthy as can be as far as I can tell. I also bought a new digital camera (the really nice expensive kind with the zoom lense, Nikkon D50) so I will be posting some really nice pictures of the Idol in the next few days. Pictures like I've never been able to get before (other digital cameras have a delay when you take the pictures, this one just snaps away). So that will be fun.
Also, I know this is a little off topic but it is going to relate to Moorish Idols. I have applied for a business loan to expand my business and if and when I get the loan I am going to try and set up a tank specifically for Moorish Idols. Not sure exactly how I am going to do it yet, but I would like some advice or ideas if anyone has any about this. I want it to be a really big tank and my goal is going to be to provide people with healthy Idols for sale. Rather than the anorexic ones you seem to find everywhere. I think that if a healthy eating Idol is provided from the beginning it would help their survivial rate in captivity.
We will see...
bartzenegger
New member
thanks
i like the idea . problem is you may have to go through many idols to have some that live. it is not always up to you to keep them alive . they may be doomed before they make it to you idols dont always ship well. infact most dont. what im saying.......... you most likely will loose alot of money in trying. ------- and yes i tried this idea before---it was a bust!!!!
but if you try .....good luck ...... hope it works.
i like the idea . problem is you may have to go through many idols to have some that live. it is not always up to you to keep them alive . they may be doomed before they make it to you idols dont always ship well. infact most dont. what im saying.......... you most likely will loose alot of money in trying. ------- and yes i tried this idea before---it was a bust!!!!
but if you try .....good luck ...... hope it works.
zfunk007
Premium Member
Well I have the advantage of knowing someone in Hawaii (a wholesaler) who said he would ship them to me as soon as he got them out of the wild, thereby eliminating the time that they sit in the wholesalers tank unfed. Which I think is a main cause of why they don't make it once they get all the way here.
My goal for now is to try and find a way to get as healthy of specimens as I can and then eventually to try and breed them in captivity. I know it has never been done and is probably rediculously difficult, but hey, I like a challange. And I think I will be in the position to do it at some point. And if I could get them breeding in captivity someday and raising the young, then it would eliminate the need to take them out of the wild and kill so many fish. Time will tell...
My goal for now is to try and find a way to get as healthy of specimens as I can and then eventually to try and breed them in captivity. I know it has never been done and is probably rediculously difficult, but hey, I like a challange. And I think I will be in the position to do it at some point. And if I could get them breeding in captivity someday and raising the young, then it would eliminate the need to take them out of the wild and kill so many fish. Time will tell...
Anything is possible, and with the right investers I'm sure it can be done, I can only imagine the size of the tank required to keep multiple pairs of idols, that in itself would be a visitor's attraction, it would be really cool. Once you get things rolling, be sure to update us much
Paul B
Premium Member
Zfunk. I wish you good luck. I don't think Idols will ever be raised in a tank but good luck anyway. I am fairly sure that they are egg scatters and the fry would need to drift with the plankton for a while like angels and butterflys. Since you are in Florada you may be able to breed them in a pool outside.
Paul
Paul
Zfunk,
Check with the Aquarium of the Pacific out here in Long Beach, cali. They have about 6 M.I.'s that they have had in an outdoor exibit since they opened 6 years or so ago. They may be able to give you some info. I've seen them and the are huge and beautiful. They swam mostly in a group. It may have been because of some of the bigger fish in the tank, ie sharks, but the curaitor at that tank said they were the only ones to survive since they opened. They had some in their indoor displays but they just didn't last.
Good luck on your endavors. Looks like everyones MI's are doing good. I stilll don't know when I'll get my tank moved and possibly get one. Everything is still, "under construction".
Have a good one everyone and keep this thread updated. It's providing a ton of info that I don't think is out there on the web.
Check with the Aquarium of the Pacific out here in Long Beach, cali. They have about 6 M.I.'s that they have had in an outdoor exibit since they opened 6 years or so ago. They may be able to give you some info. I've seen them and the are huge and beautiful. They swam mostly in a group. It may have been because of some of the bigger fish in the tank, ie sharks, but the curaitor at that tank said they were the only ones to survive since they opened. They had some in their indoor displays but they just didn't last.
Good luck on your endavors. Looks like everyones MI's are doing good. I stilll don't know when I'll get my tank moved and possibly get one. Everything is still, "under construction".
Have a good one everyone and keep this thread updated. It's providing a ton of info that I don't think is out there on the web.
Paul B
Premium Member
Hello there Chevy. I thought you would have 6 or 7 Idols by now :lol:
Mine is doing good but much too large for the tank and his fins are getting torn everywhere. He has to make "U" turns every foot or so and he is giving me dirty looks :eek1:
They don't really like to weave in and out of a reef. They kind of swim 50 to 100 yards at a time before they stop for a snack and that swimming is between large coral formations. Not like copperbands that kind of stay still and check out every cranny. I can't remove any more rock (well I can but I won't)
He also loves bananas, I know, wierd. If the thing lives another two years I may get to move and get that much larger tank but I do so much traveling I don't know who is going to take care of it when I am in (hopefully) Tahiti or some other really nice, quiet, un-New York City place.
Have a great day.
Paul
Mine is doing good but much too large for the tank and his fins are getting torn everywhere. He has to make "U" turns every foot or so and he is giving me dirty looks :eek1:
They don't really like to weave in and out of a reef. They kind of swim 50 to 100 yards at a time before they stop for a snack and that swimming is between large coral formations. Not like copperbands that kind of stay still and check out every cranny. I can't remove any more rock (well I can but I won't)
He also loves bananas, I know, wierd. If the thing lives another two years I may get to move and get that much larger tank but I do so much traveling I don't know who is going to take care of it when I am in (hopefully) Tahiti or some other really nice, quiet, un-New York City place.
Have a great day.
Paul
ckuhndog77
New member
Got this little one on 1/21/06 [Eating frozen, flake, & nori sheets]
* Can you find the Pseudanthias Bimaculatus / Bimaculatus Anthias in the pic?
First I read most of this thread & talked with few locals who have kept them. Great advice & tips here.
* Can you find the Pseudanthias Bimaculatus / Bimaculatus Anthias in the pic?
First I read most of this thread & talked with few locals who have kept them. Great advice & tips here.
LOL, not yet Paul. I want to wait until the tank is stable in it's new spot. That and I have a few other BIG fish I need to get rid of first.
So whens the permanant retirement coming? bet you can't wait. Good luck with it and ENJOY it!
So whens the permanant retirement coming? bet you can't wait. Good luck with it and ENJOY it!
zfunk007
Premium Member
Hey Paul, it can and has been done. Check this link out: Angel Breeding
These guys bred Grey and French Angels in captivity and as far as I know are the only people in the world I have ever found that have bred full sized angels in captivity. It's an amazing article and I don't think many people know about it. It's from Advanced Aquarist's Online Magazine, give it a read.
Note though, these guys sort of cheated. They caught mated pairs, some which were about to lay their eggs. And they did this back in the 70's according to the article. Very interesting though.
If these guys can breed French and Gray Angels in captivity, I can breed Moorish Idols. I have no doubt it will happen someday. I need to find out how to contact this guy...
These guys bred Grey and French Angels in captivity and as far as I know are the only people in the world I have ever found that have bred full sized angels in captivity. It's an amazing article and I don't think many people know about it. It's from Advanced Aquarist's Online Magazine, give it a read.
Note though, these guys sort of cheated. They caught mated pairs, some which were about to lay their eggs. And they did this back in the 70's according to the article. Very interesting though.
If these guys can breed French and Gray Angels in captivity, I can breed Moorish Idols. I have no doubt it will happen someday. I need to find out how to contact this guy...
zfunk007
Premium Member
His name is Martin Moe... apparently he was instrumental in developing the methods for breeding Clown Fish in captivity. And the reason they didn't pursue the breeding of the larger Angels further, even though they were successful, was that at the time it wasn't economical because French Angels only went for .50 cents a piece. Now though...
I looked him up and he lives in Islamorada, Florida, which is about 3 hours from me. I may give him a call and see if he would be nice enough to let me rack his brain and get some advice about breeding in captivity. I wonder what he would think of breeding Moorish Idols... I can't believe I didn't think of this sooner. This is exciting!
EDIT: Cute Idol ckuhndog77! Keep him well fed!
I looked him up and he lives in Islamorada, Florida, which is about 3 hours from me. I may give him a call and see if he would be nice enough to let me rack his brain and get some advice about breeding in captivity. I wonder what he would think of breeding Moorish Idols... I can't believe I didn't think of this sooner. This is exciting!
EDIT: Cute Idol ckuhndog77! Keep him well fed!
Paul B
Premium Member
Zfunk, I know all about Martin Moe. I may have spoken to him a while back. He has been writing books since the early seventees. And I know about his spawning of pygmy anglefish. He did not spawn any large anglefish as you know he collected them when they were ready to spawn like they do sometimes with salmon. Then he squeezes the fish to get the eggs.
Moorish Idols are not pygmy anglefish. Pygmy anglefish I believe were also spawned by Robert Straughn (but I may be wrong on this)
You may be able to collect Idols in spawning condition and get some eggs. I personally do not think you can raise them at this time. Maybe in the future in a large pool outdoors.
I still admire your willingness to try. If I lived in a warm climate I would have spawning pools all over the place.
Have a great day.
Paul
Moorish Idols are not pygmy anglefish. Pygmy anglefish I believe were also spawned by Robert Straughn (but I may be wrong on this)
You may be able to collect Idols in spawning condition and get some eggs. I personally do not think you can raise them at this time. Maybe in the future in a large pool outdoors.
I still admire your willingness to try. If I lived in a warm climate I would have spawning pools all over the place.
Have a great day.
Paul
zfunk007
Premium Member
Well we have a 28 thousand gallon pool which is never used.... 
Well what interested me the most was that he actually did raise the young from the Gray/French angels. It's fascinating reading about how he did it too. Getting them to breed in captivity wouldn't be too difficult if you had a large enough tank and were able to catch some already mated pairs (which I could do living in South Florida, for Caribbean Angels anyway). I think one guy on this site has a pair of Regal Angels that are spawning in his tank. The hard, time consuming and expensive part seems to be raising the young and keeping them alive.
Yes, getting Idols to actually breed in captivity would be incredibly difficult. I imagine I would need a tank into the 1000's of gallons and probably mostly devoted to the Idols. And since I don't live there I would basically have to commission someone to "catch" me a mated pair of Idols. Which, maybe I could do (my girlfriend is Hawaiian and has a lot of relatives there, plus the wholesaler I already know who catches his own fish).
I want to talk to this guy Martin Moe and since he is so close by maybe I'll be able to. I want to find out more of what he did to raise those angels because it would help me get an idea of what it would take to raise baby Idols. If anything, catching mated pairs in the wild would be a start. Figuring out how to get them to mate in captivity can come later...
Well what interested me the most was that he actually did raise the young from the Gray/French angels. It's fascinating reading about how he did it too. Getting them to breed in captivity wouldn't be too difficult if you had a large enough tank and were able to catch some already mated pairs (which I could do living in South Florida, for Caribbean Angels anyway). I think one guy on this site has a pair of Regal Angels that are spawning in his tank. The hard, time consuming and expensive part seems to be raising the young and keeping them alive.
Yes, getting Idols to actually breed in captivity would be incredibly difficult. I imagine I would need a tank into the 1000's of gallons and probably mostly devoted to the Idols. And since I don't live there I would basically have to commission someone to "catch" me a mated pair of Idols. Which, maybe I could do (my girlfriend is Hawaiian and has a lot of relatives there, plus the wholesaler I already know who catches his own fish).
I want to talk to this guy Martin Moe and since he is so close by maybe I'll be able to. I want to find out more of what he did to raise those angels because it would help me get an idea of what it would take to raise baby Idols. If anything, catching mated pairs in the wild would be a start. Figuring out how to get them to mate in captivity can come later...
kenny77
New member
Hi everyone. About morish Idol I try them before with no success. When I order them I order a small one and a medium one. the small one never make it to teh display. the medium one survive for a while but he die. Never knew why. he was eating and I was feeding him with wild sponge.
I will be setting up a tank maybe a 100g as the smallest and the Moorish Idol Is defenetly on the list.
Now teh big problem is who will ship a Moorish Idol to Puerto Rico. I live rigth off the west coast were I can provide fresh sponges and if I'm lucky enough I can get a MI that eat zoanthias. Over here they grow like crazy even at 2' of the water level. I read somewere that MI love zoa' and the one that survive in my tank almost finish every single zoa I had and the tree sponge.
zfunk007 since you are about to open this bussiness contact me or PM me. If you can get me a healthy MI from that wholesaler that will ship you as soon has he catch him I will pay some exta $. This wont be until June - July but it will give you time to try to get some connection.
This is a nice project I see a lot of future as my new tank with all caribbean coral and all hawaiian fishes. Puerto Rico and Hawaii, got to love this two island and there beautiful reefs.
I will be setting up a tank maybe a 100g as the smallest and the Moorish Idol Is defenetly on the list.
Now teh big problem is who will ship a Moorish Idol to Puerto Rico. I live rigth off the west coast were I can provide fresh sponges and if I'm lucky enough I can get a MI that eat zoanthias. Over here they grow like crazy even at 2' of the water level. I read somewere that MI love zoa' and the one that survive in my tank almost finish every single zoa I had and the tree sponge.
zfunk007 since you are about to open this bussiness contact me or PM me. If you can get me a healthy MI from that wholesaler that will ship you as soon has he catch him I will pay some exta $. This wont be until June - July but it will give you time to try to get some connection.
This is a nice project I see a lot of future as my new tank with all caribbean coral and all hawaiian fishes. Puerto Rico and Hawaii, got to love this two island and there beautiful reefs.
zfunk007
Premium Member
Hey Kenny, thanks for posting your experience with Idols so far, even though it wasn't a good one. My Idol loved Zoanthids as well. He just about cleaned my display tank out before I moved him. I will definetly contact you when I can get the Idols from the guy in Hawaii.
We purchased just about all the tanks we need (the small business loan came through woo hoo!) so all I have to do now is set them up. It is probably going to take me about a month or 2 before everything is up and running. But it's coming right along.
By the way, since I got this loan, I will be upgrading my Idols tank, probably next week. He is getting a 210 gallon (or larger, just depends on what I can get from the wholesaler) and the 110 he is in is going to be used for Blue Leg Hermits
.
What I will do is document the entire upgrade on this forum. So everyone can see the process and how my Idol is doing and what his new home will look like. I haven't quite figured out how I am going to move everyone and get everything figured out, but I think I am going to buy one of those very large Rubbermaid Vat's and put him and the others in there for a day or 2 while I get their tank set up and plumbed. I am going to start maping out my new system this weekend.
Anyone have any suggestions as to how I should design his new home? I need ideas and suggestions. So any feedback will be appreciated
We purchased just about all the tanks we need (the small business loan came through woo hoo!) so all I have to do now is set them up. It is probably going to take me about a month or 2 before everything is up and running. But it's coming right along.
By the way, since I got this loan, I will be upgrading my Idols tank, probably next week. He is getting a 210 gallon (or larger, just depends on what I can get from the wholesaler) and the 110 he is in is going to be used for Blue Leg Hermits
.What I will do is document the entire upgrade on this forum. So everyone can see the process and how my Idol is doing and what his new home will look like. I haven't quite figured out how I am going to move everyone and get everything figured out, but I think I am going to buy one of those very large Rubbermaid Vat's and put him and the others in there for a day or 2 while I get their tank set up and plumbed. I am going to start maping out my new system this weekend.
Anyone have any suggestions as to how I should design his new home? I need ideas and suggestions. So any feedback will be appreciated
kenny77
New member
Nice. I will like to see this project becoming a succes.
I was thinking that maybe it will be too mucho for the MO to travel from HI to FL and then from fFL to PR. SO i deside that when ever you are ready to ship a nice, healthy, eating MI I will go personally and will come back with him. Any way I have a tank in Orlando I will bring some coral from that tank to this one. Specially some zoanthids that are growing like weed. I know he will love them. Those are the only one that survive the MI I had because I tokk them out before they were all gone.
I was thinking that maybe it will be too mucho for the MO to travel from HI to FL and then from fFL to PR. SO i deside that when ever you are ready to ship a nice, healthy, eating MI I will go personally and will come back with him. Any way I have a tank in Orlando I will bring some coral from that tank to this one. Specially some zoanthids that are growing like weed. I know he will love them. Those are the only one that survive the MI I had because I tokk them out before they were all gone.
Paul B
Premium Member
Sponge is finally in season in New York again. I collected about a pound of it today which is about a year supply for one moorish Idol. I will try to collect a few more pounds in a coof weeks. I took it all from a dock where I collect behing my friends home but I have to wait until it grows more. My Idol is happy again. I gave him fresh sponge today but I had to freeze the rest of it because it only lives a few hours in a tropical tank. I tried last year and it started to rot by the next day.
Paul
Paul
kenny77
New member
nice point there Pual. I was about to ask you about the time a sponge will remain fresh in a tropical tank.
I live near the shore and over here there are plenty of sponges. the most common is the blue one and the orange tree sponge.
Will freezing the sponge wont kill nutrient that come in the sponge from the water. I was thinking of collecting just enought for a week and having a 5g tank for for it with phytoplanktom and selcon( don't know if the sponge will filter selcon )
what you think about this. I don't having to go snorkeling every week. well I don't even need to snorkle, sponges over here grow even at 3' away from the shore and there is a mangrove cost that it is covered in sponges almost all year around.
I live near the shore and over here there are plenty of sponges. the most common is the blue one and the orange tree sponge.
Will freezing the sponge wont kill nutrient that come in the sponge from the water. I was thinking of collecting just enought for a week and having a 5g tank for for it with phytoplanktom and selcon( don't know if the sponge will filter selcon )
what you think about this. I don't having to go snorkeling every week. well I don't even need to snorkle, sponges over here grow even at 3' away from the shore and there is a mangrove cost that it is covered in sponges almost all year around.
zfunk007
Premium Member
Hey Kenny, if you go back a few pages you will see some pictures of the sponge I collect (usually blue and orange). Let me know if it is the same sponge you have where you are, changes are it is. If it is, all you have to do is put it in your tank and it will live and grow. My sponge actually spreads onto the rocks (until the Idol and Regal eat it all). That might be your best bet when you get an Idol.
My plan, once everything is up and running, is to buy the Idols directly from this guy in Hawaii and get them eating and fat and healthy. Then I can ship them out (in oversized bags, in case they poop a bit) and they should make the trip just fine and be ready to eat once they are in your tank. As far as I can tell, no retailers do it this way.
Well the day is almost here. I will be ordering my Idols new tank most likely tommorow and once it is delivered (probably Monday) I will get to work on it. Like I said, I will take lots of pictures and document it all on here. I am a little nervous though about moving my Idol into a holding place. But it has to be done for his own well being. He isn't going to thrive in a 110 gallon tank. Hopefully everything will be ok. He's survived a hurricane, multiple blackouts and an earlier move. I think he'll be ok this time as well.
I am also concerned because I won't be able to use all of the same water from their former tank. I'll have to add new water. I plan on adding this stuff called "Right Now" Bacteria, which by the way is GREAT stuff. The stuff eliminates the cycle time you need in a new tank (I've been using the stuff for years and never had a problem with adding fish right away). So hopefully if I add some of that to compensate for the new water I'll be adding everything will turn out ok. We'll see....
My plan, once everything is up and running, is to buy the Idols directly from this guy in Hawaii and get them eating and fat and healthy. Then I can ship them out (in oversized bags, in case they poop a bit) and they should make the trip just fine and be ready to eat once they are in your tank. As far as I can tell, no retailers do it this way.
Well the day is almost here. I will be ordering my Idols new tank most likely tommorow and once it is delivered (probably Monday) I will get to work on it. Like I said, I will take lots of pictures and document it all on here. I am a little nervous though about moving my Idol into a holding place. But it has to be done for his own well being. He isn't going to thrive in a 110 gallon tank. Hopefully everything will be ok. He's survived a hurricane, multiple blackouts and an earlier move. I think he'll be ok this time as well.
I am also concerned because I won't be able to use all of the same water from their former tank. I'll have to add new water. I plan on adding this stuff called "Right Now" Bacteria, which by the way is GREAT stuff. The stuff eliminates the cycle time you need in a new tank (I've been using the stuff for years and never had a problem with adding fish right away). So hopefully if I add some of that to compensate for the new water I'll be adding everything will turn out ok. We'll see....
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