The Reef Central Corner Club Thread

Hey all,
I've decided to throw in the towel. Several years ago I kept SW fish with no problems, but since getting my tank early this year I have killed every fish I put in. Most recent death is a flame angel, he was in QT for about a month, looked great, acclimated him to the DT and it's been about a week now and he's swimming around like he's blind and all of his colors have faded, very pale. I've seen it before so don't expect him to last more than 2 days or so.
Anyway, I'm out. Was wondering if you guys knew of anyone in Texas looking for a 92g corner tank. Figured I would offer it up here 1st since this is the corner thread and everyones been so kind to me before listing it up on craigslist. If anyone does just send me a message. Thanks guys.

Hi Lotusstar, are you sure you want to throw the towel? We could try helping you identify what is causing the problem. This hobby tests you constantly and set backs are all too very common. If you want to give it another try we can try to go over the usual suspects for fish loss.
Good luck either way.
B.
 
Sorry to hear that Lotusstar. But as Boret said, we are all willing to help you out if you would like to stick with it. I've gotten my tank much more healthy just from some of the people on this thread!
 
Hello Everyone I've been lurking for a bit, but decided to make myself known as I have a few questions. I'm starting a SW tank FOWLR (to start a least) shortly after christmas this year. I'm Getting a 55g bowfront corner tank, i'm glad to have a supporting family hah. Anyways, as i've begun to play what I'd like to do, I've come up with one major question that i can't seem to find an answer to anywhere.

Are there any different requirements for corner tanks? Anything different from any of the information I have been reading all over reefcentral? Been trying to go through this thread but the majority of the information is VERY spread out and hard to piece together.

I want to take the time to do this right. Any/all advice support will be greatly appreciated.!
 
Think Reef welcome to the RC Corner Thread. If you go back 7-8 pages you are going to find the answer to your question. A couple of guys asked the same thing recently.

The main difficulty is proper flow, light/canopy configuration and getting good pictures out of a curved glass.

If you don't have a wet room, fitting all the equipment and a decent sump underneath can be tough.
 
Hey Think... Glad you're out of the lurker-closet and into the open sea...

There's nothing different about a corner tank other than the implementation that you might choose to achieve the required "systems".

Lighting - You'll need to have some light... For FOWLR systems, lighting is not as important. If your not going to get into Reef-Lighting, look into adding something that will cause the water to shimmer... cause it looks pretty... this could be as simple as several bright-LED's. The part about a corner tank is that there are no pre-fab lighting systems that fit our tanks, so you'll have to work with something DIY for lighting. There are many great examples in this thread and once you get further down the line, the folks here can offer some great specific advise and examples.

Sumps - Beyond if you do or do not want a sump as a general question, getting a sump to fit into the corner-unit tank-stand is a challenge.

Filtration - Well, you'll want LR... other wise it's a FO tank.. HAHA...

Filtration is really about one simple concept. Nutrient export. To understand that, you have to understand where nutrients come from in your system. They will come from the following two main sources.. not exclusively, but primarily;
1) Fish Waste
2) Uneaten Food

In either case, these particles, poop or food, will get into your system and you'll want to get them out. This is standard 101 aquarium info, yet probably one of the most miss understood. To export these nutrients, you'll want to have several systems in play.

Biological Filtration - Live rock/Live Sand are the primary sources of biological filtration. They take the nutrients and break them down into, nitrate... (Nitrogen cycle ref) However, this is only one method. Most of your LR will be in your DT, simply because under-the-tank sumps will have very limited space...

Water changes - this is a great method to get your nutrients levels down... daily, weekly, monthly, annually, whatever your system needs is what you'll end up having to do. (sorry, it's not really so much a preference, but a need... want to do less, make sure less nutrients are introduced to the system, and/or make sure they get exported automatically and efficently)... Getting any type of Automated Water Change system is difficult in any system...

Skimming - Protein Skimmers are all the rage... (haha)... there are many writeups on these and how they work, but lets just say they work, are a proven technology and should be on your system. As with most items, getting one to fit into your space, under your tank, or HOB, will be the issue...

Refuge - This system uses mother-nature to get rid of some types of nutrients via growing "high octane" algae which can easily be managed and controlled. Getting one of these into a corner system is not especially difficult other than space in the cabinet...

Flow - You'll want to keep these particles of waste (see above) suspended so that your filtration system can get them... The goal of flow in your system is to suspend particles... say it a few times... it's really important... This is not often done via the return-pump line from your sump... reason being is that current popular thinking is that the sump flow rate should be between 400 and 800gph to maximize the time the water spends in the sump getting "filtered" by the skimmer, fuge and any other methods you choose to employ.... So you're left with internal powerheads, or closed loops, or combination's there of. It's really not too much of a challange actually for us... the corner doesn't seem to create too much of a problem... flow in, on, and around rock work is what you want, with a turblent pattern so particles do not get "stuck" in the rocks...


Anyhow, those are just some ideas, thoughts, ramblings... the main thing is space... and the fact that NOTHING ever fits as-designed cause triangles are not rectangles...
 
Great summary Hookup!! Why didn't I ever get a clear answer like that a few years back?? :)
I would only add that water changes also help restore depleted elements in the water column such as Calcium, magnesium, etc.. that are used up by corals, clams, etc.
Once you start having a large collection of calcium hungry inhabitants you might want to start dosing or using kalk stirrerer / calcium reactor but that is a bit down the road as you are setting the tank up.
 
Its been a while so here it comes:

PICTURE UPDATE!

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Thanks for the great summary hookup!! That answers a lot of my questions, i'll probably go back to lurking for a bit as my tank won't be here for another month and a half so i won't have much input, but maybe a question here or there... I'm sure i'll have plenty of questions once i get going with the tank though!

@Boret your tank is amazing, I hope mine can end up just as nice :)
 
agree with the guys boret, the tank is very impressive, a candidate for the corner club totm for sure :thumbsup:
 
Great looking tanks and help needed here

Great looking tanks and help needed here

Just bought a used 92 bow , need some suggestions:

What kinda sump fits best?

what return pump works best?

What skimmer is best?

where can i buy a black canopy?

how many power heads do you use and what placement is best for flow?

thanks in andvace for any replies.

Scott
 
Welcome Think Reef and Lionfish79! Nice to see some more new people on the corner thread.

Think Reef - Hookup has provided you with the major challanges you will face with a corner tank.

Lionfish -

Sump will most likely have to be DIY acrylic if you'd like to get any water volume in it. A few of the guys around here have made some nice "L" shaped sumps that seem to maximize the space under the stand.

Return pump - I am looking into doing a sump myself, so i'd like to know the answer here. For my 54gal, I think a Mag-5 will be a good size. (Thanks Jesse!)

Skimmer - You will never get a single answer here as most people are brand loyal. But, from what I have gathered from looking into skimmers for about 6 months.....SWC/MSX/OCTO Extreme series 200 or larger will most likely be the most affordable and easiest to come by. I wouldn't go with anything smaller than that on a 92. There are other good brands out there, but those 3 are pretty much exactly the same skimmer, and use a Sicce pump which are great.

Canopy - not available unless you build one or have someone else build one. You MIGHT get very lucky and find a used one somewhere, but chances are very slim.

Powerheads - I only have 2 right now, but when I get my sump going, i'll have 2 sump outlets with eductors, and 2 or 3 Korallia 4 or SEIO PROP 1500 pumps. I have found with my specific setup, that one powerhead on the left back side, about 3/4's towards the front curved glass, and the other on the right upper side of the front glass. They are both pointed just above the top of my rocks and provide nice flow through the entire tank.
 
Hey guys, sorry about the frustrating post the other night I'm just at my end with figuring this tank out. I've spent the last few days trying to figure out what the problem is. Some of you guys might remember back in june I had a blue tang, poor man idol, coral beauty, and angel all go belly up on me. They never showed signs of sickness just the tang died and then the next couple of days everything else died. So the tank was fallow until about mid to end of August. So I put a pair of clowns in that disappeared, no idea what happened to them, still haven't found any remains. Someone asked if I had a cat, I do now, but at the time the fish went missing we were in between cats and my dogs are outside dogs.
I bought a new pair of clowns, and they both got along fine in the 10g QT tank, but once I put them in the 92g DT one became super aggressive and tried to kill the other so I removed him. So have 1 clown in the 92g. Bought a flame angel, he was in QT for about 3 weeks or so, was very healthy, great vibrant colors, active and eating constantly. So I acclimated him to the DT and about 4 days later I couldn't find him. He was hidden under rocks, when he finally came out he was pale, almost bleach white and the current of the tank was blowing him around. And now dead.
So, I have soft corals still striving in the tank, have been through 2 mass fish wipeouts, and 1 clown surviving still. He's got a huge home. I tested the water and it's good except the phosphates have raised a bit since I haven't done my water change every week like usually. Been doing more like 2 weeks now, just slightly larger portions. Noticing a little more algae but between work and school my time has been stretched thin. I took my water sample to the LFS to see if maybe my tests were off, but the fish store tested water and said I have very very clean water.

Parameters
temp 79-81
1.025sg
8.1-8.2ph
400cal
phos 5, usually undetectable til the last week or 2.
amonia 0
nitrate 5
alk 3.5meq

used to water change about 8g a week, now been doing about 15g every 15 days. I just don't know what the problems are, I've asked friends and the LFS and they are fairly baffled. Had 1 guy tell me that flame angels are very difficult fish to keep, never had a problem with angels in the past though. Anyway...
 
Flames are deffinately not a difficult Angel to keep. but anyways..........It kinda sounds like a mystery to me! I hope that you can get it figured out, but I could also imagine that you're ready to be done messing with things. Good luck!
 
yeah, the main thing for me is that if it was something that I could nail down. Oh, it was this, or that, ich, or whatever the problem. If I could identify it then I'd be fine, just overcome and move on. But since I never figured out the 1st crash, and this one seems to be just as mysterious if I can't come up with a cause for all this then all I'm doing is throwing money away and waiting for the 3rd mysterious crash.
 
Sounds like you might have a high level of copper or heavy metals.
Recently a fellow local club member had an almost complete wipe out because one of the heaters broke and copper leaked into the water column.
You are not testing for any of those, just you regular parameters.
The easiest way to find out is to use a poly filter pad. The changing color one, that will let you determine if you have any metal trace. Your other option is to do a onetime test with AWT, a onetime test with cost you $40 and a 4 test package $110. (I think the later is a better deal and will help you with your future tests)

There is something that is poisoning your inhabitants. It is either a trace element that you are not testing for or some equipment that is leaching the poison. If this was the case, then you might have compromised the Live Rock and even the sand bed... and there is really only one option, to start from scratch.

Once we eliminate the heavy metal as the cause, or while you are determining that the other factor is Oxygen. Lack of Oxygen will kill your fish.
I imagine you have good water movement, and the movement is breaking the surface tension of the water so there is proper oxygen exchange. In some cases, a film develops on top of the water, and lack of proper water agitation will impede this exchange.

One of the easiest solutions is to introduce an air stone in your system. If you can run the air from a "fresher" source (ideally outside the house) you will improve the introduction of oxygen vs. CO2.

I will also look into the phosphate. A 0-5 reading can be deceiving. Algae consume those phosphates, and they are present but are being consumed. That means that you could be introducing them through your RODI water. Which reminds me.... you are using RODI water for your water changes right? And when you make the water changes you introduce water with the same exact parameters, as far as salinity, temp, approximate pH, etc... Right?

I would also test your newly made salt water for phosphate.... as a matter of fact, if you find the time, try to test your new saltwater for all the parameters for which you have a test kit.

Fish killers are ammonia, lack of oxygen, poison and sickness (parasites, health issues, etc..). Fish are less susceptible to parameters swings... they can actually survive larger temperature swings, and remain alive under different salinities. Corals are more delicate... but right now we are dealing with fish deaths.

Don't be discourage, Chingchai, who is building an amazing 1000 gal tank in Thailand, with top notch equipment, recently lost most of with fishes to oodinium. As you can see, extremely experience reefers, with fine tune setups, and years of knowledge on us suffer from these events as well. You can read pages 85 and 86 where the issue is discussed.

Remember that the cardinal rule of Reefing is patience, tons of it, as a matter of fact.

One last thing (I am writing them as they pop in my head so forgive me for the lack of order in the post) how about power loss?? You don't stay in front of your tank all the time, right?.... do you think it is at all possible that throughout the day your lights (electricity) go out and then return an hour later, stopping any water flow and therefore producing the lack of oxygen?
Do you have a backup, battery operated air stone, or power head that will remain on while this happens?

Good luck and keep posting, we will try to get you through it.
 
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Boret - That is a great suggestion using the Poly Filter. I can't believe that I didn't think of that! I used to use one all the time on my system for phosphates, but now with a Fuge, I don't need to use it anymore. BTW, your tank is amazing! What is that clam with the White Streaks? I really need to pick up a few baby clams, but I'd like a Wrasse just to keep snails at bay in case they come up.
 
Thanks reefscape15.
It's just a maxima clam... there are some really nice ones out there, like this one:

1-1.jpg
 
That clam is beautiful! I had a small Blue Maxima for about 2 months, but then my Sally Lightfoot Crab started tearing it apart. I set up my tank in hopes of one day getting a Black and White Zebra Maxima, but I may just do a BC8 or BC14 in my son's room for that.

Tell me what you guys think of this setup:

-Bio Cube 8 or 14gal
-HOB Prizm Skimmer off the back filtration chamber
-150watt 14K MH and Blue or Purple 12v LED's (same style as Boret) in a DIY canopy
-1 or 2 Taam SEIO Prop Super Flow pumps (P530) 530gph each. Probably one in an 8 gal and 2 in a 14gal.
-2" - 3" Natures Ocean Australian Gold Sand
-A few medium sized pieces of some Branching type rock. Most likely Marco artificial seeded with some smaller pieces from my reef. Layed out in a very open manner to leave as much sandbed as possible.
-Mostly Zoas, Shrooms, and Softies
-1 Black and White Zebra Maxima
-1 Gold Maxima
-2 Neon Gobies
-1 Flaming Prawn Goby
-1 Red Scooter Blenny
-1 Yashia Goby
-1 Green Clown Goby

That's my wish list anyways.:)
 
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