theReefKing
New member
Just a little closer up view of the Transition Tank.
The Tank that REEF CENTRAL Built - 450 gal display, 800 gal volume
- Thread starter theReefKing
- Start date
owenspackman
New member
good to see another local on here!
dca22anderson
New member
Your transition tank looks fantastic!! Well done!! Love your barred gobys!!
theReefKing
New member
MAjor Trouble And almost a CATASTROPHY
MAjor Trouble And almost a CATASTROPHY
Today, I was working down in the lower level where 10 of the 11 systems are set up, and on three different occasions I thought I smelled an acrid odor....
We have known that we are pushing the limit with the electrical where the tanks are, and we have been very conscious of spreading out where everything is plugged in, and spreading out the load. Well during that 40 hour marathon when we set up the Transition tank, I was not so cautious. I was more concerned about getting the tank going that I was careless.
I daisy chained a bunch of power strips together so that I could get everything running and had the whole entire system plugged into one outlet. Well the breaker would handle the load for a few hours and then trip. So here is where I believe I really screwed up. I replaced the 15A breaker for the outlet with a 20A breaker. This fixed the tripping breaker, but the next day Dana calls me at work and let's me know that the entire tank is not running but everything else is still on. So I rush home.
This is the first moment I remember that the entire tank is daisy chained through one power strip. I open the breaker, unplug everything, and start troubleshooting. I learn that the power strip which was plugged into the wall is not working anymore, so I replace it this time splitting the power source for the large tank on three different outlet locations on two different breakers.
No more issues for the last week, and I go on thinking I have everything running right. Until today.
Remember that acrid odor I got a quick whiff of?
After crawling around three times, smelling return pumps, hunting for an electrical current in the tanks, I spot it!
This is the outlet that I had the entire tank running through and had also replaced the breaker with a 20A breaker.
bubbling Paint, and the wall warm to the touch!!! I sprinted to the electrical panel and secured power. The bubbling did not continue to spread, and the wall was cool to the touch in a few minutes.
The outlet still is without power, and breaker open, and the tank is running entirely from other power locations. Everyone and everything is safe.
I know the mistakes I made, but I didn't realize the consequences. I thought that 20A was ok? I didn't think that would cause wires to melt? I plan to use 12-2 wires on 20A breakers in the new build, will what happened here be an issue there? We're the wires in my walls not 12-2? Can anyone please help me better understand my mistakes? I don't want to make the same mistake again.
MAjor Trouble And almost a CATASTROPHY
Today, I was working down in the lower level where 10 of the 11 systems are set up, and on three different occasions I thought I smelled an acrid odor....
We have known that we are pushing the limit with the electrical where the tanks are, and we have been very conscious of spreading out where everything is plugged in, and spreading out the load. Well during that 40 hour marathon when we set up the Transition tank, I was not so cautious. I was more concerned about getting the tank going that I was careless.
I daisy chained a bunch of power strips together so that I could get everything running and had the whole entire system plugged into one outlet. Well the breaker would handle the load for a few hours and then trip. So here is where I believe I really screwed up. I replaced the 15A breaker for the outlet with a 20A breaker. This fixed the tripping breaker, but the next day Dana calls me at work and let's me know that the entire tank is not running but everything else is still on. So I rush home.
This is the first moment I remember that the entire tank is daisy chained through one power strip. I open the breaker, unplug everything, and start troubleshooting. I learn that the power strip which was plugged into the wall is not working anymore, so I replace it this time splitting the power source for the large tank on three different outlet locations on two different breakers.
No more issues for the last week, and I go on thinking I have everything running right. Until today.
Remember that acrid odor I got a quick whiff of?
After crawling around three times, smelling return pumps, hunting for an electrical current in the tanks, I spot it!
This is the outlet that I had the entire tank running through and had also replaced the breaker with a 20A breaker.
bubbling Paint, and the wall warm to the touch!!! I sprinted to the electrical panel and secured power. The bubbling did not continue to spread, and the wall was cool to the touch in a few minutes.
The outlet still is without power, and breaker open, and the tank is running entirely from other power locations. Everyone and everything is safe.
I know the mistakes I made, but I didn't realize the consequences. I thought that 20A was ok? I didn't think that would cause wires to melt? I plan to use 12-2 wires on 20A breakers in the new build, will what happened here be an issue there? We're the wires in my walls not 12-2? Can anyone please help me better understand my mistakes? I don't want to make the same mistake again.
theReefKing
New member
Thanks! Owen.
Little side story for everyone.
Owen and I know each other through the Charleston Reefing circle but did not know the other was on RC. We were both loosely following along on the others build and didn't realize that we were texting each other about getting together, at the same time we were posting on each others build threads.
We finally put two and two together yesterday!
theReefKing
New member
Thanks so much DCA! I'm appreciate you looking in. PM me when you get a chance about those auto feeder rings.
theReefKing
New member
Aquarium Fire
Aquarium Fire
I can't believe how close I was to lighting my house on fire.
Aquarium Fire
I can't believe how close I was to lighting my house on fire.
SPotter
Active member
Bill, I think the best thing you can do is either sit down with the electrician that is wiring your house or hire an independent electrician to review your needs. Sounds like you will need to hire one anyway to repair that outlet and any of the wiring leading to that outlet behind the wall. I would try to estimate either the total watts or amps that you will be using between all of the equipment that you have now and any anticipated equipment for the new tanks.
Carpentersreef
Member
The wires in the wall would have been 14/2, not designed for a 20 amp breaker.
If the plug was wired originally for 12/2 20 amp, the plug would have had a "T" slot on the plug itself, indicating that it was a proper 20 amp circuit.
You were lucky.
If the plug was wired originally for 12/2 20 amp, the plug would have had a "T" slot on the plug itself, indicating that it was a proper 20 amp circuit.
You were lucky.
owenspackman
New member
Wow. That's scary. Really makes you stop and think about the way we set these builds up to electrical power. I didn't give mine a 2nd thought and just plugged everything into the wall assuming all would be well, this really makes you stop and think. Our setups draw HUGE electrical power (my electric bill jumped by 1/3 after the build) and when you throw water into the mix its a huge potential for trouble.
Glad you caught it in time and the house and inhabitants are all okay.
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
You should have been able to read the markings on the wire in the panel indicating 14/2 as this is typical for a lot of house wiring, usually lighting circuits are 15A & 14/2 but a lot of the time they will throw convenience outlets on the same circuit. You can't trust the type of outlet to correlate to the wire and circuit size.
The other fire code violation you have is daisy-chaining power strips. You should NOT do this, nor should you daisy chain extension cords, or plug a power strip into an extension cord. These are all dangerous, but switching out one breaker for a larger breaker because it was tripping? Dude. That breaker was sized that way for a reason, most likely by a licensed electrician. You're really lucky your house didn't burn down, because there is a really good chance that insurance would not have covered the loss. Y'all think about before digging into your electrical panels.
The other fire code violation you have is daisy-chaining power strips. You should NOT do this, nor should you daisy chain extension cords, or plug a power strip into an extension cord. These are all dangerous, but switching out one breaker for a larger breaker because it was tripping? Dude. That breaker was sized that way for a reason, most likely by a licensed electrician. You're really lucky your house didn't burn down, because there is a really good chance that insurance would not have covered the loss. Y'all think about before digging into your electrical panels.
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
...just so you know where I'm coming from, I'm an EE (with my PE) and in the design industry (commercial/industrial) for ~8yrs, plus I've done my share of house wiring, including switching out an entire panel and feeder to the house meter, adding breakers, circuits, etc. in my job I do forensic engineering investigations including fire (cause & origin)
Made2Rock
Member
Another point here is the outlet you were using was only rated for 15A. The next time you are in a hardware store look at the face on a outlet and you'll be able to see the different between a 15A outlet and a 20A.
Here is a basic lesson on current.
As current goes thru a wire the wire will heat up. The more current you have going thru a wire the more it will heat up. Also a 14 gauge wire will heat up more then a 12 gauge wire. If you run and extension cord and plug in many items into the extension cord the extension WILL have to carry ALL of the current those items want (This is what you did). So if the wire is to small for the amount of current the wire will start to become very hot.
So when you started to run over 15A thru a 15A line and then changed out the breaker to 20A it was more then the wire could safely handle and it became HOT.
Lesson on Breakers
A normal breaker will pop when the current going thru it "heats" up the breaker. Now the more current thru it the faster it will over heat. So if you run 15.5A in a 15A breaker it will take a lot longer to pop the breaker then if you run 18A in a 15A breaker.
A GFI breaker will pop like the about BUT it will also pop if the amount of current is different from one wire to the next. This is what happens when things short circuit or people get electrocuted.
SPotter said it best when he said you need to sit down with an electrician and go over what you are planning on doing. There is a lot more to it then I put in here and he knows all this and can best address your needs.
Joe
Here is a basic lesson on current.
As current goes thru a wire the wire will heat up. The more current you have going thru a wire the more it will heat up. Also a 14 gauge wire will heat up more then a 12 gauge wire. If you run and extension cord and plug in many items into the extension cord the extension WILL have to carry ALL of the current those items want (This is what you did). So if the wire is to small for the amount of current the wire will start to become very hot.
So when you started to run over 15A thru a 15A line and then changed out the breaker to 20A it was more then the wire could safely handle and it became HOT.
Lesson on Breakers
A normal breaker will pop when the current going thru it "heats" up the breaker. Now the more current thru it the faster it will over heat. So if you run 15.5A in a 15A breaker it will take a lot longer to pop the breaker then if you run 18A in a 15A breaker.
A GFI breaker will pop like the about BUT it will also pop if the amount of current is different from one wire to the next. This is what happens when things short circuit or people get electrocuted.
SPotter said it best when he said you need to sit down with an electrician and go over what you are planning on doing. There is a lot more to it then I put in here and he knows all this and can best address your needs.
Joe
owenspackman
New member
Good, thoughtful and well presented information here. Thanks Joe. Others offering advice should take note on the way you portrayed this information!
Made2Rock
Member
I was a technician years ago and was working on a EE when I made a left turn into programming. I believe it is important to understand what happened because if there is one thing about a salt water tank it creates a rat's next of wires and it becomes so easy to do this. I moved a 150G over the weekend and when you do something like this you are tired and make mistakes thankfully he caught this in time.
So if anything I said does make sense let me know and I'll rephrase it.
Joe
So if anything I said does make sense let me know and I'll rephrase it.
Joe
Made2Rock
Member
I completely agree!!!
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
This is a good expansion on my point about fire code and I'm glad you brought it up. Most extension cords have the wire size and amp "rating" listed on the tag or shelf at the store. Most of those subsequently get torn off, leaving you to guess at what you have. Many extension cords are 14 gauge, most "heavy duty" or "contractor grade" ones are 12 gauge.
Many power strips are not made to act as extension cords, and while they may list wire size and amp ratings, I don't recall that such ratings stand out on the packages. But essentially a power strip is a bunch of outlets that are wired on a "bus" for lack of a better term, so the "bus wires" of the first outlet is carrying all the current of the outlets downstream. Best case is that each outlet is wired separately back to the cord, but the cord still carries all the load from all outlets. Now plug a power strip into the last outlet and the entire power strip has added the entire load from a downstream power strip - with the outlet closest to the cord wall carrying the most load.
Circuit breakers are mainly there to protect the wire from overheating and/or overload. They protect equipment as well, but do not really provide personal protection. 1A will kill you, but it won't necessarily trip a breaker in time to save you. The primary purpose of an AFCI & GFCI is to protect people.
In building design practice the order goes: determine equipment load (via actual or NEC, etc), size the wire appropriate to the load, size the breaker according to the wire. Then, apply GF or AF breakers as the space or function requires per code.
If you have the ability in the new house (i.e. you're making a fish room) I would have a dedicated panel, no question. Then you can also have an outlet ran outside for a generator to plug in to, and isolate the fish room (by throwing the sub-breaker in the main panel) and put it on the generator in the case of a long term outage. Make the panel plenty big with room for many additional breakers. There are never too many breakers :spin3:
I would also have a SPD (Surge Protection Device) on both the main panel and the sub-panel. Costs you a bit more but in the big picture, it could save your entire system one day. Food for thought!
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
Absolutely agree as well!
SPotter
Active member
I had a 2nd panel put in for my last build so it was easy to identify the breakers and do exactly what Bud said about the generator. I am in the process right now of creating a spreadsheet to help me identify what my anticipated needs will be. I will then give that to my builder to make sure I have the proper wiring.
