The Tank that REEF CENTRAL Built - 450 gal display, 800 gal volume

OK.. as a firefighter in my spare time.... (and I just got back from vacation and saw this thread)

You are lucky.

I have been on many fires over my 20+ years in (so far) and have seen all sorts of things.

If the actual wall was wet it could cause this problem, BUT, this type of bubling and discoloration is normally caused from heat from the reverse side. As drywall will not combust until extreme high temps, the covering on the front and back will. The images you showed are point positive that heat was causing it. You were very close to a full blown fire.

The studs in the wall would have channeled it and caused strange patterns on the visible side.

For personal safety and the aspect of a family involved, we would have opened the wall to expose the wire and drywall, if we were called to investigate it, via 911.

A thermal imager would have been used to see if there were any other hot spots in the wall and those would have been investigated also.

Keeping mind to not destroy an entire wall and only expose the area between the studs, that can be easily repaired.



SO...

Now you see why, earlier, I was stating that new home runs to the circuit panel should be done. Daisy chaining outlets can cause problems in different locations, from other items.

Daisy chaining surge strips with extension cords can cause meltdowns resulting in fire.

Those strips, check the cords. See if there is any brittleness to them. If so toss them. We trust so much stuff (our life) to a $20 surge strip, when it gets damaged, toss it. That is another reason why I recommended so many plugs around the location. To prevent additional strips that need to be placed.

A few steps to prevent a disaster is worth more than saving a few dollars for something that 'looks' fine.
 
worm5406 said:
Now you see why, earlier, I was stating that new home runs to the circuit panel should be done. Daisy chaining outlets can cause problems in different locations, from other items.
Click to expand...

Worm, are you suggesting that in general house wiring one should homerun each outlet back to the panel? Or are you just stating that one outlet should not be fed from another outlet? There is a difference, in the latter, one could run all the outlets in a room up to j-boxes and then homerun one wire back to the panel. Otherwise you would have one mess of wires in the panel, plus terminating multiple wires on a single breaker can get you into a mess, etc.

Just clarifying for me and others reading. Good take on the issue.
 
Floyd R Turbo said:
Worm, are you suggesting that in general house wiring one should homerun each outlet back to the panel? Or are you just stating that one outlet should not be fed from another outlet? There is a difference, in the latter, one could run all the outlets in a room up to j-boxes and then homerun one wire back to the panel. Otherwise you would have one mess of wires in the panel, plus terminating multiple wires on a single breaker can get you into a mess, etc.

Just clarifying for me and others reading. Good take on the issue.
Click to expand...

Sorry... I was meaning in this instance. With water around it, and the ability to make it a-fresh, home runs for each section would be best.

Yes in standard home wiring you will see multiple outlets chained together. This allows for convenience and cheaper cost.

Since this is a dedicated section I was saying to home run the 5-8 outlets to eleviate any problems of ONE breaker turning off an entire tank. Each home run should be tied to it's own breaker.

SO:

A sub panel box, fed by appropriate service from the main breaker box.

8 outlets ran individually back to a new breaker in the sub panel. With the suggestion that each one be a quad outlet.


Thanks for the clarification request. I was busy today at work and skimmed across the thread while waiting on something. So I was typing quick to finish for the day at work.
 
Floyd R Turbo said:
To add to this, older breakers can sometimes fail in the ON position - meaning they won't trip when they're supposed to. Or, they'll trip but you can't reset them, and can't find replacements. But we're talking some really old breakers here. Frank Adams brand is the first to come to mind. That's the one I replaced on the first house I bought (notorious for faulty breakers). Kinney is a pretty old brand too. You would have to have a pretty old house for this to be of concern.

Then there is the issue of aluminum wiring (1970s era construction). Don't get me started. If you had this flagged on your home inspection report it is worth looking into, otherwise forget I mentioned it.
Click to expand...

i couldnt help read into this outlet fire, i reworked a bunch of outlets and wires in my house on my own and read alot prior, also had the help of an experienced, but not licensed electrician do some work and review what i did..

regardless and what the point of my post is,

in addition to what breakers you have mentioned, federal pacific stab loc breakers have been the cause to a ton of electrical fires.. its actually such an issue i have a ton of multi family homes being non renewed in insurance because of these style breakers, and in the end my customers are forced to switch to newer style panels because last year it started with one major company non renewing for this.. this year it seems like everyone else is starting to catch on.. long story short they dont break the circuit, just over heat and catch fire
 
worm5406 said:
SO:

A sub panel box, fed by appropriate service from the main breaker box.

8 outlets ran individually back to a new breaker in the sub panel. With the suggestion that each one be a quad outlet.

QUOTE]

This conversation and experience are well timed for the finalization of the electrical for the new house.

I have been on the horn with the electrician and builder a bunch of times over the last 3 days. Here is what we have settled on for the new location.

There were a total of 12 Quad GFI outlets being added to the home.
- 4 Quad for the main tank area
- 4 Quad for the large fish closet, which will have 6 tanks in it
- 4 Quad for the fish room which will be built in the garage

There will be 6 dedicated breakers, with 2 sets of quads allocated to each breaker. The fish electrical box will be separate from the main panel and have room for expansion.

The things I ended up dropping due to cost/neccesity.
- 220V run to the location of the main tank
I felt the liklyhood of needing a chiller large enough to need 220V was not likly. We have good success controlling the tempurature through fans and evaporation, and we have an old 1/3HP running on the 210 now, and it is hardly on at all.
- ABT switch. I wanted to have this for when we were ready to install the backup generator to the fish electrical, but the price tag came in between $4,000 and $8,000 and would have required a whole new subcontractor to come in. We are a few years off from spending $15K on an ABT & Generator so we will just make due with a standby gas generator for now.
Click to expand...
 
Worm,
in your oppinion do you think that just the outlet heating up could have caused that much bubbling? It was obvious that the outlet was cooked, but we did not find any melted wire insulation or exposed wire.

The wire was 12/2 and the breaker was 20A. Would it make sense for the outlet to have been the weak link?
 
Fts

Fts

How about a little deviation from the Electricity convo?

813edc71-67dc-4abb-a514-ef752e794451_zpsac15bc8f.jpg


6251dc42-c257-4344-8fdb-9b4dc6e47a29_zps70b63208.jpg


(STILL WANT TO HEAR THOUGHTS ON THE FINAL ELECTRICAL FOR THE NEW BUILD)
 
Last edited:
Transition tank looks amazing Bill. Would you consider consolidating the 6 tanks that will be in the closet and maybe go with 2 deep blue professional frag tanks...either the 60g or 80g? It would probably take up less room and definitely save you money on running costs by consolidating the equipment.
 
theReefKing said:
This conversation and experience are well timed for the finalization of the electrical for the new house.

I have been on the horn with the electrician and builder a bunch of times over the last 3 days. Here is what we have settled on for the new location.

There were a total of 12 Quad GFI outlets being added to the home.
- 4 Quad for the main tank area
- 4 Quad for the large fish closet, which will have 6 tanks in it
- 4 Quad for the fish room which will be built in the garage

There will be 6 dedicated breakers, with 2 sets of quads allocated to each breaker. The fish electrical box will be separate from the main panel and have room for expansion.

The things I ended up dropping due to cost/neccesity.
- 220V run to the location of the main tank
I felt the liklyhood of needing a chiller large enough to need 220V was not likly. We have good success controlling the tempurature through fans and evaporation, and we have an old 1/3HP running on the 210 now, and it is hardly on at all.
- ABT switch. I wanted to have this for when we were ready to install the backup generator to the fish electrical, but the price tag came in between $4,000 and $8,000 and would have required a whole new subcontractor to come in. We are a few years off from spending $15K on an ABT & Generator so we will just make due with a standby gas generator for now.
Click to expand...

Good.

I am glad you have it setup to accept the transfer switch and generator. That is a large expense, I agree. Sometimes a whole house generator might be a better thought. You would prob get away with that for a little bit more.

The 2 quads per breaker works. Hopefully it does not cut/break an entire area off at once. I mean the breakers should be split between the areas. Right? Would much rather have 1/2 the pumps running instead of none of them.

theReefKing said:
Worm, in your opinion do you think that just the outlet heating up could have caused that much bubbling? It was obvious that the outlet was cooked, but we did not find any melted wire insulation or exposed wire.

The wire was 12/2 and the breaker was 20A. Would it make sense for the outlet to have been the weak link?
Click to expand...

It does and I have seen close damage to a wall but not the extent that you showed in the pictures. If the wall was hot, as you described, it was coming from the back, inside the wall.
 
SPotter said:
Transition tank looks amazing Bill. Would you consider consolidating the 6 tanks that will be in the closet and maybe go with 2 deep blue professional frag tanks...either the 60g or 80g? It would probably take up less room and definitely save you money on running costs by consolidating the equipment.
Click to expand...

We havn't thought about this as much as I think we should.

We have one of their 60g now, and to be honest the frag tanks would fit better in the Fish closet in the new house.

We like the ability of have the many systems so we can have different levels of nutrients and lighting in different systems for different corals, but I think we could Certainly get away with Less than the 11 systems we have now :o)

LPS - 80g frag
SPS - 80g frag
29g - for Softies / leathers
35g - for zoas
Plus the 2 display units

That really feels like the right number now that you prompted my to think about it. I will run that by Dana. If we got the frag tanks in place in the new house that would also make it alot easier to move the livestock.
 
The 2 quads per breaker works. Hopefully it does not cut/break an entire area off at once. I mean the breakers should be split between the areas. Right? Would much rather have 1/2 the pumps running instead of none of them.
Click to expand...

I did not think of this until just now. this would be an easy thing for them to do. They are finishing the electrical today, and I am calling the electrician now. Hope it is not to late.
 
To have the t-shirt sometimes means you have been there and done it.

I just do not wear that shirt all the time. It has become ratted and torn.

:)
 
theReefKing said:
We havn't thought about this as much as I think we should.

We have one of their 60g now, and to be honest the frag tanks would fit better in the Fish closet in the new house.

We like the ability of have the many systems so we can have different levels of nutrients and lighting in different systems for different corals, but I think we could Certainly get away with Less than the 11 systems we have now :o)

LPS - 80g frag
SPS - 80g frag
29g - for Softies / leathers
35g - for zoas
Plus the 2 display units

That really feels like the right number now that you prompted my to think about it. I will run that by Dana. If we got the frag tanks in place in the new house that would also make it alot easier to move the livestock.
Click to expand...

simplicity is king!
 
Off topic, but i wanted to share. I just got back from a two day wine & dine session from a financial company looking for my partner and I to run the Carolina market for them. Very Exciting opportunity.

They are putting the offer together now, and I am really hoping we will be able to come to terms.

Exceptionally Anxious and excited.
 
We will be starting over with all new Liverock in the transition tank when we move. So we have spent the last two weeks getting about 400 lbs of it "reset".

We started with a 72 hour RODI & bleach bath.
81f6463f-6b0f-4f5d-8e3d-18dec62daf6c_zps3b6ea763.jpg


Then a full week long soak in RODI water, pumps were circulating the water at all times for both the bleach bath & the RODI soak.

Finally into the trough for curing. I will add a sump, skimmer, predicted, and return pump tomorrow or the next day.
556af197-f8f1-455b-bbc5-e52b0252f3bb_zps5a7c25b7.jpg


fef85d34-65da-461a-ab78-dc8996b993cd_zps090206a6.jpg
 
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