andbigdaddy2
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Hey for us just comming back or here for the first time whats the recipe and common cure \ kure time
The Ultimate DIY Rocks!
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Insane Reefer
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Big Daddy, Curing will be the same, as rock made without perlite - that will be based on what you use cement-wise.
Kuring, well, that is another story. My first piece of perlcrete was baked, and had the typical pH of 9. 2 subsequent test pieces were not baked, nor have I gotten around to kuring them, so I haven't tested them yet. The "Death Stars" weren't kured, but were pH tested and at around 3 weeks of age had a pH of 8.5ish - however, this I think is due to the surface being "sealed" with a slightly slick surface, and it being virtually non-porous because of compression. The Frag Cones also haven't been kured, and I went ahead and did one with a baby shroom, and one with a bit of star polyps - once the batteries charge, will post a pic - these are in my display tank.
Neptune is planning on pH testing, and has a piece in works it looks like - he will have to tell us what he has found.
Neptunes recipe: 2:1 ratio of Perlite to Type I/II Cement mixed a bit on the wet side
My favorite recipe 1 (+ 1/4):1:1:1 cement: sand: oyster shell: perlite mixed slightly wetter then normal.
Kuring, well, that is another story. My first piece of perlcrete was baked, and had the typical pH of 9. 2 subsequent test pieces were not baked, nor have I gotten around to kuring them, so I haven't tested them yet. The "Death Stars" weren't kured, but were pH tested and at around 3 weeks of age had a pH of 8.5ish - however, this I think is due to the surface being "sealed" with a slightly slick surface, and it being virtually non-porous because of compression. The Frag Cones also haven't been kured, and I went ahead and did one with a baby shroom, and one with a bit of star polyps - once the batteries charge, will post a pic - these are in my display tank.
Neptune is planning on pH testing, and has a piece in works it looks like - he will have to tell us what he has found.
Neptunes recipe: 2:1 ratio of Perlite to Type I/II Cement mixed a bit on the wet side
My favorite recipe 1 (+ 1/4):1:1:1 cement: sand: oyster shell: perlite mixed slightly wetter then normal.
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Neptune777
Premium Member
"Neptune is planning on pH testing, and has a piece in works it looks like - he will have to tell us what he has found."
Sure will! I will soak it in some water in the next day or so and see what she reads.
Sure will! I will soak it in some water in the next day or so and see what she reads.
Insane Reefer
New member
Someone help me do the math for converting the liquid calcium (10% solution) to the dry?
Please?
I have Kent on hand and for a small batch, it can't be too much, but want to get close to the right ratio...
I'll be using 3 lbs of cement.
Please?
I have Kent on hand and for a small batch, it can't be too much, but want to get close to the right ratio...
I'll be using 3 lbs of cement.
Neptune777
Premium Member
Here is a cross section of the inside of the perlcrete rock to give some insight to porosity:
andbigdaddy2
New member
Thanks for the info.
So are you casting them using salt or sand?
How long are you letting them sit before they are hard enough to remove from the casting material?
So are you casting them using salt or sand?
How long are you letting them sit before they are hard enough to remove from the casting material?
Insane Reefer
New member
How is flow-through? The matrix seems a bit tight (but that could just be the tiny pic and old eyes and a 14" monitor 
) - does water go through the rock?
) - does water go through the rock?Neptune777
Premium Member
I cast the rock pictured using rock salt. It was made just 24hrs ago. I used Calcium chloride to speed up the set time.
Neptune777
Premium Member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10510695#post10510695 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Insane Reefer
How is flow-through? The matrix seems a bit tight (but that could just be the tiny pic and old eyes and a 14" monitor
Nice medium flow ...not too fast and not too slow. Water does soak in rather than just roll off.
Insane Reefer
New member
Good - that was what I was looking for "Water does soak in rather than just roll off".
I'm going to try going a little wetter still - mine still has water gushing through it due to a more open matrix, and I want to make that go away...
I'm going to try going a little wetter still - mine still has water gushing through it due to a more open matrix, and I want to make that go away...
andbigdaddy2
New member
Calcium chloride was added to the mix or to the salt and where did you pick some up?
Insane Reefer
New member
Sand - damp, almost wet, sand
If you are careful, you can generally remove it within 18-24 hours, using a method like archaeologists use, brushing way the sand to unearth the rock. It depends on what you cast though - thin stuff might break off if removed too early. If you aren't in a hurry, leave it in for 3 days or more.
Neptune777
Premium Member
It was dissolved in the water which was then added to the portland cement. I used Peladow name brand (it is a more pure calcium chloride compared to Dow Flake). Calcium Chloride is sold as a de-icer....it may be hard to come by this time of year in most areas. You can mail order it cheaply from here:
http://www.mainstreetseedandsupply.com/saltproducts.htm
Insane Reefer
New member
I think it can also be gotten in the Pool section of most stores - I think it is a pool or spa chemical.
Neptune777
Premium Member
I think you are correct.....but I have never looked myself.
Insane Reefer
New member
Ok, I've even made it simple for you math geeks.
I need approx 1oz of Calcium for 3lbs of cement.
Math is not my strong point, but I think that means if the liquid solution is at 10%, then I would need 10oz of liquid Calcium?
Am I right or wrong?
I need approx 1oz of Calcium for 3lbs of cement.
Math is not my strong point, but I think that means if the liquid solution is at 10%, then I would need 10oz of liquid Calcium?
Am I right or wrong?
Insane Reefer you're assume it's 2% by weight and not by volume which is incorrect. I'll run through the math for you based on weight so you'll be able to use this as a reference when you figure out the volume.
Going by weight it would be 0.96 oz of dry Calcium Chloride or roughly rounded to 1 oz.
You would want to use either Calcium Chloride Dihydrate or Anhydrous Calcium Chloride.
1 gram of Calcium Chloride Dihydrate will add 72 ppm of calcium to 1 gallon of water. 1 gram of Anhydrous Calcium Chloride will add 95 ppm of Calcium to 1 gallon of water. So if you use Anhydrous Calcium Chloride use 72/95ths of the 0.96 oz or 0.73 ounces.
Kent's Concentrated Liquid Calcium doesn't say if it's Dihydrate or Anhydrous but it doesn't matter because we know that 1ml (liquid measurement) per gallon of water will bring up the calcium by 26.42 ppm. So roughly 4 ml of this liquid is equal to 1 oz of powdered Calcium Chloride Dihydrate.
The PROBLEM however is that you don't mix it based on weight but by volume. I did the exercise above to show you how to figure out what you need ONCE you figure out the volume amount of Calcium you need to add.
In a nutshell you want to add 1/50th amount of dry calcium. So as soon as you figure out what the total volume of cement is your gold.
I make and sell aquacultured rock so I can't exactly give away the farm on my recipe but I can tell you I can cast the rock one day and add it to my tank the next day. Of course having roughly 1300 gallons is pretty forgiving but I've added over a ton of new rock this week alone in one of my 300 gallon outdoor ponds that's connected to my indoor reef system with little change in pH (maybe 0.15 at most).
Since you guys have caught on to the calcium it's only a matter of time before you figure the next part out so I'll give you a push in the right direction.
Think about a couple of key parameters you watch (or should) in your tank water. IE Calcium, Alkalinity, pH. These all play a key role in how your cement sets and hydrates.
Here's an example. My tap water is high in calcium and Mg (hard water) but my Alkalinity is 2 dKH with a pH of 9.5. This makes poor rock from the standpoint of kuring.
If I used the same water to poor a cement walkway it really wouldn't matter because once it's hard enough to walk on I'm good but for the hydration process and getting the alk and pH down in the rock it's huge.
If you have high pH in your tap you can lower it with many different acids include sulfuric acid which you can pick up at almost any LFS (API pH Down). A bottle of this will last a while. You of course can get it much cheaper if you know where to get it or you could use HCl (more potent) available at HD or Lowes. It's used to etch cement. The acids will lower both alk and pH. You can raise alk using either baking soda or washing soda (baked baking soda) depending on what you want to do to the pH.
Run with that and have fun.
Carlo
PS You would get much, much better results right off the bat if you used a cement designed for marine use. Type I/II is probably the worse cement in this regard because of the high pH.
Going by weight it would be 0.96 oz of dry Calcium Chloride or roughly rounded to 1 oz.
You would want to use either Calcium Chloride Dihydrate or Anhydrous Calcium Chloride.
1 gram of Calcium Chloride Dihydrate will add 72 ppm of calcium to 1 gallon of water. 1 gram of Anhydrous Calcium Chloride will add 95 ppm of Calcium to 1 gallon of water. So if you use Anhydrous Calcium Chloride use 72/95ths of the 0.96 oz or 0.73 ounces.
Kent's Concentrated Liquid Calcium doesn't say if it's Dihydrate or Anhydrous but it doesn't matter because we know that 1ml (liquid measurement) per gallon of water will bring up the calcium by 26.42 ppm. So roughly 4 ml of this liquid is equal to 1 oz of powdered Calcium Chloride Dihydrate.
The PROBLEM however is that you don't mix it based on weight but by volume. I did the exercise above to show you how to figure out what you need ONCE you figure out the volume amount of Calcium you need to add.
In a nutshell you want to add 1/50th amount of dry calcium. So as soon as you figure out what the total volume of cement is your gold.
I make and sell aquacultured rock so I can't exactly give away the farm on my recipe but I can tell you I can cast the rock one day and add it to my tank the next day. Of course having roughly 1300 gallons is pretty forgiving but I've added over a ton of new rock this week alone in one of my 300 gallon outdoor ponds that's connected to my indoor reef system with little change in pH (maybe 0.15 at most).
Since you guys have caught on to the calcium it's only a matter of time before you figure the next part out so I'll give you a push in the right direction.
Think about a couple of key parameters you watch (or should) in your tank water. IE Calcium, Alkalinity, pH. These all play a key role in how your cement sets and hydrates.
Here's an example. My tap water is high in calcium and Mg (hard water) but my Alkalinity is 2 dKH with a pH of 9.5. This makes poor rock from the standpoint of kuring.
If I used the same water to poor a cement walkway it really wouldn't matter because once it's hard enough to walk on I'm good but for the hydration process and getting the alk and pH down in the rock it's huge.
If you have high pH in your tap you can lower it with many different acids include sulfuric acid which you can pick up at almost any LFS (API pH Down). A bottle of this will last a while. You of course can get it much cheaper if you know where to get it or you could use HCl (more potent) available at HD or Lowes. It's used to etch cement. The acids will lower both alk and pH. You can raise alk using either baking soda or washing soda (baked baking soda) depending on what you want to do to the pH.
Run with that and have fun.
Carlo
PS You would get much, much better results right off the bat if you used a cement designed for marine use. Type I/II is probably the worse cement in this regard because of the high pH.
Insane Reefer
New member
Thanks for the reply Cayars
I'm going to chew on that for a bit - may I pm you if I have additional questions (that don't pertain to your recipe, specifically)?
I will ask this.
I remembered that I had some Bio-Calcium, several ounces in fact.
Could I use this instead? It is a calcium/bicarbonate supplement with minerals. It just says that it contains "Calcium Ions, hydrogencarbonate, and 70 trace minerals". I knew about Baking Soda for precipitating lime, so this could only help, but, and I know this will reveal the level of my chemistry ignorance, are calcium ions the same as what we want? Or will it work?
And I think we would all love to use marine cement, however that is really, really hard to find. I'm lucky to get white portland - marine cement isn't an option for most of us...
I'm going to chew on that for a bit - may I pm you if I have additional questions (that don't pertain to your recipe, specifically)?
I will ask this.
I remembered that I had some Bio-Calcium, several ounces in fact.
Could I use this instead? It is a calcium/bicarbonate supplement with minerals. It just says that it contains "Calcium Ions, hydrogencarbonate, and 70 trace minerals". I knew about Baking Soda for precipitating lime, so this could only help, but, and I know this will reveal the level of my chemistry ignorance, are calcium ions the same as what we want? Or will it work?
And I think we would all love to use marine cement, however that is really, really hard to find. I'm lucky to get white portland - marine cement isn't an option for most of us...
Of course, worse case is I say I can't/won't answer something specific. I just don't want to give away specifics of how I do it because somebody could then come along and duplicate it without having went through years of experimenting. Of course as many of you know even having a specific recipe in hand doesn't produce the same rock as people tend to mix differently and the "artistic" way of laying the rock is different by each person. Some will make nice looking rock that's pretty porous and others will make slab rock.
I'll admit I've picked up a couple of tips here in this long, long thread so I feel I should give some info back.
With that said, I'm not familiar with Bio-Calcium so we will need to figure out the amount of calcium it contains per bottle and we can figure out the proper amount to use. Now weather the bicarbonate is good or not will depend mainly or your tap water alk level.
Generally speaking I'd say it will be fine to use (minerals won't matter much) if you alk isn't high from the tap. If it's high to begin with then I would use a calcium only type product.
If you can find me a web page with some product information on it I'll see what I can come up with for you so you know how much would equal the dry calcium.
Carlo
I'll admit I've picked up a couple of tips here in this long, long thread so I feel I should give some info back.
With that said, I'm not familiar with Bio-Calcium so we will need to figure out the amount of calcium it contains per bottle and we can figure out the proper amount to use. Now weather the bicarbonate is good or not will depend mainly or your tap water alk level.
Generally speaking I'd say it will be fine to use (minerals won't matter much) if you alk isn't high from the tap. If it's high to begin with then I would use a calcium only type product.
If you can find me a web page with some product information on it I'll see what I can come up with for you so you know how much would equal the dry calcium.
Carlo
Insane Reefer
New member
Based on what I can find, I'm thinking it is something like dowflake and a smaller amount of something to produce the hydrocarbon. It is a dry powder, and is made by TropicMarin...
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