The whole coral pricing has become a joke

Absolutely agree with the OP. I've never paid more than 10 bucks for any colony of zoas. I get all my high end ones from other hobbyists who aren't trying to make a quick buck.

I don't understand why with the high price. My 'high end' zoas spit out new polyps at the exact same god damn rate as my super cheap 5 dollars for 50 polyps zoas. Bought 2 mind benders for 10 bucks a couple weeks ago... And I'm already up to 5 of them.

Moral of the story is to just wait until a hobbyist near you is willing to frag some at a reasonable price. They all grow the same.
 
MUCHO REEF said:
So what's the remedy? Mass boycotting, threads like this, a database of price gougers/chopshoppers, a dedicated thread or forum on this topic, a sticky for new reefers etc ? I've directed several dozen to this thread already to read and see for themselves. Many like myself will continue not supporting these people. I've provided a ton of stickies validating the issue in post #226 and # 227 on this topic and when and how it was created.

MUCHO
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I know this may sound crazy... but some people enjoy buying the named stuff that is so called rare and sold under the most blue LEDs money can buy. Boycotting them will do nothing, zero, zilch. JMO
 
Tweaked said:
I know this may sound crazy... but some people enjoy buying the named stuff that is so called rare and sold under the most blue LEDs money can buy. Boycotting them will do nothing, zero, zilch. JMO
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:) No, it doesn't just sound crazy. As you can see in the info I provided, if you want to pay 10 times more for something that others pay 10 times less, then go ahead. But when you do, you are helping a price gouger set a price that he can show everyone else that this is the fair market value. It's the unfair PG value.

SP has shared with you his over 20 years of experience in this hobby and you mocked it. You continue to recite the term rare and it may be rare to you sir as a new reefer ( and no that is not a slap ), but I have lost count of the people I have corrected with proof and pics, that most of what others consider rare really isn't. Right now there are PGs advertising mushrooms that are rare which I posted pics of online 15 years ago. I mean I just see a lot of younger/newer reefers who have only known tiny frags in a tank which looks like a Curio stand. Many think a mother colony is 10 polyps on a 2 inch rock. There's just so much more to reefing then buying and trading frags like Beanie Babies. I see reefers now fragging frags with 6 polyps. Can anyone else see this?

Trust me, boycotting has worked in many venues. If the word got out to every new reefer regarding what, when and how this all began, a change would surface.

MUCHO
 
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Tweaked said:
I saw you just had a show up that way, don't some of these big named sellers come? I won't mention the name, but bet he drives attendance!
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But who cares about attendance? I've attended a dozen conferences and personally met and corresponded with marine biologist, authors and legends in reefing known throughout the world. Someone who ordered a box of corals and fragged them to white plugs, named them, stole a name or placed his name on them isn't impressive at all. This notion of who owns the most frags with the best camera..........well.......that ( AIN'T ) impressive my friend. At least not to the dozens of reefers I know.

Mooch
 
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Not my point though. It was stated that he started a swap, I was merely inquiring if some of the big names are invited. Additionally, the people who put on these shows care about the attention - and some of the attendees do to. I understand you don't, that is clear, but some people enjoy the rare marketed coral- it's human nature.
 
MUCHO REEF said:
But who cares about attendance? I've attended a dozen conferences and personally met and corresponded with marine biologist, authors and legends in reefing known throughout the world. Someone who ordered a box of corals and fragged them to white plugs, named them, stole a name or placed his name on them isn't impressive at all. This notion of who owns the most frags with the best camera..........well.......that ( AIN'T ) impressive my friend. At least not to the dozens of reefers I know.

Mooch
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As Tweaked said, many do. I'm probably not going to be buying any piece this weekend from a certain well known higher end seller, but I am sure looking forward to seeing what he has. If I was running a swap, that would be the someone I invite to have a booth, because it was certain to drive up attendance. And more people attending is good for the other sellers there, some of which are probably selling corals for much cheaper. Win win.
 
Tweaked said:
Not my point though. It was stated that he started a swap, I was merely inquiring if some of the big names are invited. Additionally, the people who put on these shows care about the attention - and some of the attendees do to. I understand you don't, that is clear, but some people enjoy the rare marketed coral- it's human nature.
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I'll be very honest with you my friend, none of these guys with names have ever impressed me nor most of the PGers attending these swaps from what I hear. I stopped attending swaps back in 2006 after seeing how names and PGers were killing this hobby as we once knew it. So I digress since I don't attend them anymore and can't tell you what they"re like now. What I can tell you is the numerous impressed reefers at those swaps back in the day who learned and advanced their reefing keeping skills by listening to those 20 year reefers who helped them out in a time of need. They were impressed by all of the TOTM winners from Michigan. They were impressed by those who could grow a reef instead of building one. Rare is a term everyone selling on Facebook and ebay uses on corals we saw when Nixon was president.

Mooch
 
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Sinocard said:
Absolutely agree with the OP. I've never paid more than 10 bucks for any colony of zoas. I get all my high end ones from other hobbyists who aren't trying to make a quick buck.

Have you read post # 105 of this thread, 2nd link, post # 17 ? These are the types of sellers I support. They are no longer in business but I sent tons of reefers to buy from them as did I. They had great prices and quality.

I don't understand why with the high price. My 'high end' zoas spit out new polyps at the exact same god damn rate as my super cheap 5 dollars for 50 polyps zoas. Bought 2 mind benders for 10 bucks a couple weeks ago... And I'm already up to 5 of them.

It's called greed, not supply and demand, not what the market will bear, yadda yadda. Google Reef Trendy by Anthony Calfo. Believe it or not, many of the polyp pimps are telling newbs that the reason the so called rare and pricey polyps are so expensive, is because they are slow growers. Lol.....REALLY ?

Moral of the story is to just wait until a hobbyist near you is willing to frag some at a reasonable price. They all grow the same.
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Good advice

Mooch
 
Wait just one darn minute...Are you telling me that all this "stuff" I just bought online is not really "rare"???
 
Tweaked said:
I saw you just had a show up that way, don't some of these big named sellers come? I won't mention the name, but bet he drives attendance!
Click to expand...


All the big name sellers come.By the 3rd swap (about 7 years ago?) word spread- just by reputation. The "Whos Who" in the not so local area was on the list.

It was all just started as a social event, a good time- the availability of coral was just a side bonus- not to mention the last few huge raffles we were able to obtain and host.

By the 4th year- I didnt know, and had never heard of most of these guys- like Pacific east, Beef's, JF, Booyah, just to name a small few. Not to mention a ton of local names like Cherry (think they were there for the 2nd annual), Trop, ect...

Some of them have been GREAT, others not so great- but wont entertain any names....

What Im trying to say- The reputation and atmosphere of this swap attracted the names, not vice versa.

This swap literaly took itself over like a wild animal and I could hardly contain it- Vendors I never heard of were hitting me up- well after all the tables were sold out.

The sites I advertised on wouldnt even let me share everyone who was coming, unless they were a sponcers on my local forums, so....

Some didnt sell alot- But I bet they did well- everything considered. Others sold a TON and made a TON of $$$$$- Both come back every year.

This one upcoming, as well as the year previous were handed over to a local website to run for a while- I had no part in either........
 
Hack2 said:
Wait just one darn minute...Are you telling me that all this "stuff" I just bought online is not really "rare"???
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Most of it really is not rare-

Trade secret-

There are people who are allowed to pick over coral, before everyone else, commonly called "cherry picking" They can/will buy huge peices of rock, every peice available, to corner a market, and call the next hot coral "rare" or Limited Edition.....selling tiny peices of a huge chunk for Big $$$.


I will say- some things are harder to find than others, but rare and limited edition are a joke....I watched 2 lawsuits almost happen over the exact same issue.....

When you get so deep- better get your waders on, because it gets deep fast.... If you know what I mean.
 
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Last swap I attended I got a 6 polyp frag of some sort of Vampire Morph Paly?- Healed. No clue what he meant- but they had nice color.

$15

So I baught them- then quickly figured out what Vampire morph was.....

This seller knew what he had- even told me he had had them a year before they became a "poular polyp" and enlightened me, could have tried to make me pay whatever their going for ("market value") but told me to make an offer. I offered $!5- he took it.

Later found out he could have tried to rip me off- selling for $40/polyp- but he didnt.....He knows whats up- I latter found out hes been reefing since the start of RC- Has even been spotlighted or mentioned on some of the best early articles.....Now I am not so surprised.

Just think about it, let it sink in........
 
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Hack2 said:
Wait just one darn minute...Are you telling me that all this "stuff" I just bought online is not really "rare"???
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My friend, more likely then not, it really isn't. People will say, "who can really quantify or clarify with any professional certainty whether something is or isn't rare." Well, everything you see on line or sold locally can't be rare, especially if it has been seen many years past. Collection stations aren't bringing the same corals to market week after week. I know your reply has a touch of sarcasm or maybe not, but it was good to read it :)

MUCHO
 
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SIR PATRICK said:
Last swap I attended I got a 6 polyp frag of some sort of Vampire Morph Paly?- Healed. No clue what he meant- but they had nice color.

$15

It's great to still see that.

So I baught them- then quickly figured out what Vampire morph was.....

This seller knew what he had- even told me he had had them a year before they became a "poular polyp" and enlightened me, could have tried to make me pay whatever their going for ("market value") but told me to make an offer. I offered $!5- he took it.

Again, great to see this.

Later found out he could have tried to rip me off- selling for $40/polyp- but he didnt.....He knows whats up- I latter found out hes been reefing since the start of RC- Has even been spotlighted or mentioned on some of the best early articles.....Now I am not so surprised.

Somehow we have to get back to that and not trying as many do to get rich off of the hype and lies of rarity.

Just think about it, let it sink in........[/QUO
Click to expand...
 
MUCHO REEF said:
My friend, more likely then not, it really isn't. People will say, "who can really quantify or clarify with any professional certainty whether something is or isn't rare." Well, everything you see on line or sold locally can't be rare, especially if it has been seen many years past. Collection stations aren't bringing the same corals to market week after week. I know your reply has a touch of sarcasm or maybe not, but it was good to read it :)

MUCHO
Click to expand...

Ummm.. Wouldn't anything truly "rare" by included on CITES.org? :bigeyes::cool::idea:
 
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