The whole coral pricing has become a joke

Tweaked - that is actually a rare one. Taking that out of the equation, I should have said GENERALLY". But even using purple mo st as an example, people could sell the oth one as purple monster to the great unwashed.
 
My friend, I think that is the gist of this discussion. Though you're really not bothered and don't care to defend the selling of a single solitary polyp for $ 1,000, doesn't mean the majority of the the reefers who responded to this thread feel as you do. There is no justifiable reason yet given other than greed via gouging to explain what is and has happened.

...

Gouging is, for example, when a grocery store or gas station raises prices during a disaster. Those resources are needed and the only place to get them is raising the price in order to take advantage of that situation.

This isn't gouging. We don't need those expensive corals, as there are plenty of inexpensive choices. There is no emergency situation here.

This is just stupid people selling to other stupid people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_gouging

Please, stop using the term "gouging," or any other term that claims that we are being forced to make these transactions. We aren't. They are completely voluntary (and stupid).
 
I'm all about solutions for issues that cause complaint.

I hear you.

If someone threw enough money at this to become the primary US buyer from most major direct sources of marine fish and corals, is that a viable possibility?

Viable? I guess someone in the know could answer that. It would be a major undertaking to say the least.

Instead of allowing the main few big distributors to buy up all the "good stuff"; is it within the scope of viability to monopolize the industry and regulate prices downward from the top down?

That my friend would be a gigantic task in an atempt to stop the greed and gouging we are seeing everywhere.

I'd seriously consider putting together a business model and funding such a project.

Are you serious about this?

Mooch
 
There are a lot of pieces that are not your run-of-the-mill blue shroom or finger leather. They grow slower, they aren't common, and have nicer colors. This raises the demand and naturally you would raise the price if the buyer is willing to pay. Some will, some won't. I see shipments of corals come in every other day and I dont see space invader pectinia come in often. I don't see loony tunes stylos come in .. too often (well.. twice) but you get the point. If something is more difficult to obtain, of course you are going to pay a premium for it. I wont pay more than $30 for zoas tho. I can find them all from someone if i look hard enough.
 
Just a side note... landing cost from the supplier is to blame. Ten years ago you can get chunks of acans and chalices for dirt cheap. Before the name game existed. Zoas were considered pests. Now that this hobby has exploded in popularity, suppliers/collectors have caught on and are now charging a lot more for their product. So now the wholesaler that sells to the retailer has to worry about freight costs and livestock cost. Let's not mention DOAs... So by the time it hits the retail stores, you have to pay what you pay due to how much the retailer paid the wholesaler, and how much the wholesaler had to pay the collector/supplier. Just some food for thought.
 
i totally disagree. First off, if someone is willing to pay $500 for a piece of coral it obviously is worth that much to that particular person, it's simple supply/demand economics. I'm not willing to pay that much for a coral, but as long as there are enough people willing to then the coral is worth $500. The bigger issue is are these prices "killing the hobby", i would say no, just the opposite, it is providing a greater variety of corals available to us all. It is ridiculously expensive to travel to some of the most remote regions of the world to get permits, collect, transport and then grow out new and beautiful corals. If the collectors cannot recuperate their expenses by charging a premium for these difficult to acquire corals then no one will go to the time, trouble and expense to bring them back to us.


^^^^^this^^^^^
 
Simple

Simple

I have been in this hobby for 15 years although my posts and namesake don't show it.

Support your local reefclub and LFS. And dump those who take advantage of stupid prices. Been there. Its about sharing your interest and the money means nothing. Been there. Been screwed. Back in and careful who I trade with.
 
I am. It would almost assuredly have to be a horizontal and/or vertical integration business model rather than a raw start-up. So it would depend on buying out some of the biggest current players.

The capital needed would be emeince. You're talking logistics, hitting the ground running, knowledgeable personal etc. A serious long term commitment makes it feasible. All the best mate.

Mooch
 
I love the "exclusive, rare blah blah" that carry the massive prices. I spoke to a store that gets in some pretty awesome sps, and when I asked him the names of the new arrivals? His response floored me, and made me really question what the heck is going on here. He actually told me "I haven't named them yet. With out a name, they would only be $20 a frag. With a name they can go for $400". My jaw dropped.

Yes sir.....it is true and glad you shared that. This is what newbies need to hear. It's all a game. I have seen corals sit in a LFS for weeks.....but once it was named...it sold within hours. It's crazy that this is the power a silly name can carry in reefing today.

The funniest is everyone goes bananas for "coral named whatever", but there's no real way to track the lineage from the first real colony. And to be honest, do you REALLY think is truly "rare". It's not. It's just rare in your town.

Lineage is just as silly. Some people truly believe that if their polyp came from Peter the Polyp Pimp in Peoria.....they have the real whatever. I have seen these corals die just as quick as the average Joe's corals perished. When will we get back to husbandry and turn our backs on this nonsense of knowing every name on a Web site. Rare? I better stop here.

These things are like diamonds. If a supplier ends up with a few colonies of that coral, he will only sell pieces of 1, for a ton of $$$$.

Sir you are laying down some serious and truthful rap my friend.

Then he can blow out a colony at the end of the run for a megaton.

If you injection to the insanity, probably best not to buy it. It's just the free market at work.

Post of the year.

Mooch
 
I have been in this hobby for 15 years although my posts and namesake don't show it.

Support your local reefclub and LFS. And dump those who take advantage of stupid prices. Been there. Its about sharing your interest and the money means nothing. Been there. Been screwed. Back in and careful who I trade with.

I agree, network locally for the best deals. I too believe in giving back.
 
To clarify I'm not defending paying $1,000 a polyp. I just don't care if people do. I'm pointing out other reasons why it's getting more expensive as a whole, because I think pointing blame almost solely at "polyp pimps" is short sighted. But if the best you can contribute is to dismiss me because I have less experience than you, then this topic has clearly run its course for me.

SDE - One thing worth noting if you're relatively new to reefing (I'm not assuming that, btw) is that very little of what's for sale in the LFS and online is wild-collected anymore, especially SPS and softies like zoas. There's some exceptions - SPS from Australia are all wild-collected, though in a highly regulated, sustainable manner.

The whole colonies of SPS and zoas that you typically see online from a seller like Live Aquaria are mari-cultured in Indonesia and Fiji. There may be a few exceptions, but they're typically priced in the $100 range for a baseball sized colony at retail. That's far, far below the prices that are typically asked for frags by coral slingers, which are typically $60 - $80 or so for a 1" single-stick frag, and sometimes multiple hundreds if the color combinations are deemed desirable.

So this encourages what Mucho's discussing - so-called "chop shops" that buy a $25 - $50 baseball-sized colony wholesale, and cut it up into 10 - 20 1" fragments that they sell for $50 - $150 each. To support this sort of thing, there's a lot of questionable marketing going on, including the appellations of "rare", "limited edition" and so forth.

If you choose, you can avoid this by buying a box of maricultured colonies through a distributor like Livestockusa.org; the typical price structure is about $700 for a box of 15-17 colonies of acropora where you specify the species/color. So about $45 for each colony, typically baseball to softball sized.

Gouging is, for example, when a grocery store or gas station raises prices during a disaster. Those resources are needed and the only place to get them is raising the price in order to take advantage of that situation.

This isn't gouging. We don't need those expensive corals, as there are plenty of inexpensive choices. There is no emergency situation here.

This is just stupid people selling to other stupid people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_gouging

Please, stop using the term "gouging," or any other term that claims that we are being forced to make these transactions. We aren't. They are completely voluntary (and stupid).

Agreed and disagreed.....

We are not forced- at least thse of us that know better...

But we are definititely influences- those tha dont know better...those that havnt seen this thread as well as many others that have been posted here and other big sites...

so untill EVERYONE knows- the term "GOUGING" will be used.....its what it is.

There are more new reefers daily than there are long term reefers (ehhhemm.....5 years plus) I said long term....from the begining- who know whats happened with inflation from the source.

The new reefers will think that more than $5/polyp is cheap and $1k/polyp is normal, unless those that know better state their claim here and wherever else, to make it common knowledge....thats what a few of us are here for- and even fewer have the common knowledge over- but for LFS sake- dont share.....they got bills to pay and employees families to feed....

Hence said inflation over the past bunch of years....and all those who didnt know better- but read this thread so far.....not to mention many other threads....

I am sure there are links to proof to follow.
 
I wonder how many people talking about "supply and demand" in these threads have ever taken enough economics courses to know what those words mean. Looks to be somewhere around 0% with the amount I'm seeing that term misused. The coral industry is not supply and demand, the supply is common and the demand is manufactured. It would be like if diamonds were everywhere but everyone was buying them only from HypeMaster Deluxe Diamonds for 50x more strictly because their diamonds are photographed better.

What the coral industry is actually like is a car dealer getting a ton of junked $3,000 Volvos, painting them up like Mazuratis and then passing them off as such for $300,000. There is a term for that and it isn't supply and demand: it's called defrauding consumers.
 
I wonder how many people talking about "supply and demand" in these threads have ever taken enough economics courses to know what those words mean. Looks to be somewhere around 0% with the amount I'm seeing that term misused. The coral industry is not supply and demand, the supply is common and the demand is manufactured. It would be like if diamonds were everywhere but everyone was buying them only from HypeMaster Deluxe Diamonds for 50x more strictly because their diamonds are photographed better.

What the coral industry is actually like is a car dealer getting a ton of junked $3,000 Volvos, painting them up like Mazuratis and then passing them off as such for $300,000. There is a term for that and it isn't supply and demand: it's called defrauding consumers.

Good question, I did try though to serve Foie gras in Ann Arbor MI....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foie_gras

I was uneducated on the term, knew a bit on the recipe- but never learned the fine details that were available for years and years.....

I figured it out quick....

Its was about 2004 when this all came about, just as the name game of certain polyps/corals just happened to become common...and here I am today- wont pay a dime for Foie gras even in the best of the best resturaunts.... I order duck patte instead- for much cheaper, tastes the same....
 
To clarify I'm not defending paying $1,000 a polyp. I just don't care if people do

And I wont quote you in this thread again, but figured my time typing might help you understand that there are people that do not know better that do.

No offence to you or your thoughts bro, just here to share some true information. I cant help but share man.

Some of us really do care, So we spend time here online to share, hoping that others will.
 
Hope to see many read this, on the worlds biggest online reef hobbiest website out there, reef central, and take a minute to ponder it all.....thats all....
 
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