The whole coral pricing has become a joke

MUCHO REEF said:
dkellar makes a great point, most of what comes to market is maricultured. But allow me to revert back to most every link I've posted to give you guys a time reference. These price hikes began overnight in 04/05, there were no dramatic overnight increase in shipping cost. There was absolutely no talk or affirmation of global bleaching that sent zoa prices from $40 per medium to $50 for a large colony, to $20, $30 and $50 A POLYP. The same for mushrooms. There were no market variables on land or sea that caused these rip off prices in 04/05. It was a few greedy reefers who started lying regarding rarity, giving them silly names, chopping up every mother colony they saw, purchased, ordered or received and this is how we got here. You need to ask the people who were here when it all happened.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/s...id=913053&highlight=disturbing+zoanthid+trend

http://test.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1920486

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1304962&highlight=mucho

Some of these polyp pimps are so afraid of the truth being revealed. Read the truth for yourself above.
Click to expand...


Here's another very informative thread for you to read.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/s...d=1593951&highlight=The+infamous+named+polyps
 
oseymour said:
I spent the last month or visiting different LFS around the NYC area.

In Long Island, I saw large zoa rocks 3 for 45. I'm talking dozens of polyps each. I asked why the price is so cheap and the owner said that these were wild collected.

I visited a couple of other stores with name brand zoas and the prices were 50 bucks for a couple of polyps and these were aquacultured.

Could it be that years ago because everything was going wild collected it was cheaper and today because it takes time and money to grow corals in greenhouses here in the US it's more expensive?

Nowadays, I mostly trade corals with other reefers on Manhattan Reefs. I find a lot of local reefers there. I'll grow frags but the plan is to trade it for something else not make a profit. I knew this was a money pit coming in.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Those stores are very hard to come by, I would definitely support a store like that. Were they vibrant colored zoas or were they muted colors?
 
oseymour,

what is the name of this great store on LI? I would like to support them. I live in brooklyn and also am a member on manhattan reef. Perhaps we can set up a trading circle in brooklyn?

cheers.


oseymour said:
I spent the last month or visiting different LFS around the NYC area.

In Long Island, I saw large zoa rocks 3 for 45. I'm talking dozens of polyps each. I asked why the price is so cheap and the owner said that these were wild collected.

I visited a couple of other stores with name brand zoas and the prices were 50 bucks for a couple of polyps and these were aquacultured.

Could it be that years ago because everything was going wild collected it was cheaper and today because it takes time and money to grow corals in greenhouses here in the US it's more expensive?

Nowadays, I mostly trade corals with other reefers on Manhattan Reefs. I find a lot of local reefers there. I'll grow frags but the plan is to trade it for something else not make a profit. I knew this was a money pit coming in.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Mucho,

This is not about greed. You have a choice. Back in your 2004-5 period the selection of many of the corals you talk about did not exist. Most of the high priced corals are not wild but aquacultured. I used to cherry pick from an importer back then and it was a rare find to get a beautiful piece.

So a new must have coral does show up, just wait a little while and the price will come down as the hobbyist grow it out. I know of just a couple of LFS that really make money, so it is not them. Really the high price comes from the consumer, YOU.

You make it sound like there is some secret society that try's to keep prices high. I don't buy that.
 
mikeatjac said:
Mucho,

This is not about greed. You have a choice. Back in your 2004-5 period the selection of many of the corals you talk about did not exist. Most of the high priced corals are not wild but aquacultured. I used to cherry pick from an importer back then and it was a rare find to get a beautiful piece.

So a new must have coral does show up, just wait a little while and the price will come down as the hobbyist grow it out. I know of just a couple of LFS that really make money, so it is not them. Really the high price comes from the consumer, YOU.

You make it sound like there is some secret society that try's to keep prices high. I don't buy that.
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Vendors use marketing tactics to get better prices, we the consumer buy it and pay the prices. From a cost stand point a $200 coral really does not cost 10x more to grow or collect than a $20 coral of the same type.

When the corals started to get names is when the prices started to rise. For some reason that marketing tool lends to legitimize a higher price.
 
Wazzel said:
Vendors use marketing tactics to get better prices, we the consumer buy it and pay the prices. From a cost stand point a $200 coral really does not cost 10x more to grow or collect than a $20 coral of the same type.

When the corals started to get names is when the prices started to rise. For some reason that marketing tool lends to legitimize a higher price.
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And we also got a far better selection. It became a business.
 
mikeatjac said:
And we also got a far better selection. It became a business.
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Yup, I started the hobby in 1998. We do have a better selection now. Back in the day there was not a significant price difference in different color morphs of the same corals.
 
Yes there was. You can still get a $20 coral today. It was ugly then and still is ugly. In 2000 I bought a straw berry short cake for $65 for a one inch frag. About the same as today.
 
The only thing that has come to the market I don't like is photo shopping. So I pay a premium from my preferred venders.
 
ecotanker said:
oseymour,

what is the name of this great store on LI? I would like to support them. I live in brooklyn and also am a member on manhattan reef. Perhaps we can set up a trading circle in brooklyn?

cheers.
Click to expand...

Pet Warehouse - They had the zoas I mentioned. Fish selection was ok. Their other corals were reasonably priced.

Aquarium Village - They moved to a new spot last year and the new place is much bigger and cleaner. The coral prices were not as great as Pet Warehouse but they had a good selection and the fish selection was excellent, prices were reasonable and the display tanks were all clean.

My friend said I went crazy because I'm used to paying Manhattan prices for fish and corals.
 
mikeatjac said:
Yes there was. You can still get a $20 coral today. It was ugly then and still is ugly. In 2000 I bought a straw berry short cake for $65 for a one inch frag. About the same as today.
Click to expand...

I do not recall a big spread in prices prior to designer names catching on. It has been a while tho.
 
heathlindner25 said:
You make me sick mucho, do you honestly think we can keep raping the oceans with more and more hobbist entering? Give it away for free? Coral should be expensive, typical human response.... destroy everything. If we keep taking and taking and taking , and you want it all dirt cheap. Don't pay the little man, the middleman, all you want is your $5 colonies
This Thread disgusts me
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These high prices and tiny high end frags, that have high mortality rates are what is a more accurate typical human responce- destroy everything...

Larger frags/colonies have a much higher chance to survive than a sliver of coral that we see driving these coral prices up. (aquacultured corals excluded) People these days are selling a single Zoa polyp for hundreds (thousands) of dollars. Sucessful corals lead to pruning/fragging, which leads to less coral demand from the oceans.

How many of us seasoned long term reefers can continue this hobby not being able to afford anything that was available commonly to us 15 years ago? I know I cant afford most higher end corals that are large enough for me to justify the risk of loosing it because its a frag of a frag of a frag....

The topic- coral pricing is a joke I beleive is pointed at the $100-$1000 for a tiny peice of a coral. No one is looking to pillage the reef. Sorry these posts disgust you, and it makes you not feel well.
 
SIR PATRICK said:
These high prices and tiny high end frags, that have high mortality rates are what is a more accurate typical human responce- destroy everything...

Larger frags/colonies have a much higher chance to survive than a sliver of coral that we see driving these coral prices up. (aquacultured corals excluded) People these days are selling a single Zoa polyp for hundreds (thousands) of dollars. Sucessful corals lead to pruning/fragging, which leads to less coral demand from the oceans.

How many of us seasoned long term reefers can continue this hobby not being able to afford anything that was available commonly to us 15 years ago? I know I cant afford most higher end corals that are large enough for me to justify the risk of loosing it because its a frag of a frag of a frag....

The topic- coral pricing is a joke I beleive is pointed at the $100-$1000 for a tiny peice of a coral. No one is looking to pillage the reef. Sorry these posts disgust you, and it makes you not feel well.
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Great points, but as more and more people enter this hobby, sustainability of the ocean has become a factor. I know of quite a few corals that have entered the endangered list and no longer collectible, and will be many more in the future. So many of the corals you use to be able to get 15 years ago are not even there anymore to purchase. Remember rizo's...blue ridge coral,elk horn? Gone
Just for the record, I don't have an issue keeping frags alive.
I fear for the reefs if it wasn't as expensive as it is.
 
heathlindner25 said:
Great points, but as more and more people enter this hobby, sustainability of the ocean has become a factor. I know of quite a few corals that have entered the endangered list and no longer collectible, and will be many more in the future. So many of the corals you use to be able to get 15 years ago are not even there anymore to purchase. Remember rizo's...blue ridge coral,elk horn? Gone
Just for the record, I don't have an issue keeping frags alive.
I fear for the reefs if it wasn't as expensive as it is.
Click to expand...


I have a blue ridge coral. Not very pretty but its unique and has the blue skeleton which is cool. I didnt know it was unavailable any more.
I think that some prices dont come down because the coral remains pretty rare, how many people take a frag and grow a real colony out of it? I assume many dont and many more crash tanks or get out of the hobby before these corals can actually grow out.
 
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