The whole coral pricing has become a joke

[TimeConsumer]

Ya'll sound like you need better local clubs. In Colorado we have a frag swap and put corals into three categories low, middle, and high. Then you bring in your frags and swap one for one that is in it's category. I think last year several hundred corals were traded. Lots of them very high end.

That's actually a brilliant idea. Sometimes a handful of simple categories can make things a lot easier. Can you give some more detail on the 1-for-1 exchange? I understand obviously that a frag of a really rare zoa, chalice or SPS would go into the high category and a small piece of GSP would go into the low category. But where would a 6" rock covered in GSP fall? Or a 10-head hammer? Or do you just do frags and colonies don't really make the cut?

Offtopic: Grats Broncos, great performance.

 

[SIR PATRICK]

This post is so true. I'm in a third world country and we are one of the biggest LS supplier for the marine hobby like Indonesia. Every week there are always new items, and even sharks and smaller rays can be Boughy at fairly reasonable prices

Giant clams can have prices raining from $3-$6 depending on sizes

LPS like torches, hammers, galaxea, bubble coral, frogpspawn, octospawn, long tentacle planted and brain corals can cost at $1 for a 3-4 headed colony. $5 for a fairly large colony around twice the size of an average human palm.

Fishes are dirt cheap. $0.5 for common fishes like mower blennies, flasher wrasse, fairy wrasse and a different damsels. $2-$4 for firefishes, clowns, colorful blennies and gobies and smaller angelfishes. Larger fishes tend to be more expensive but still pretty cheap compared to most LFS at US.

They will pay the divers a certain amount per bag of fish. And each bag of fish can contain damsels, or colorful wrasses. The larger the fish the higher the price but they got paid in dirt cheap prices. Corals were paid for every sack collected. A sack can contain an assorted amount of LPS, SPS and softies. And each sack is pretty cheap. The divers were paid really low, thus the fairly low prices at the LFS here. The cartimar in our country is one of the most popular places for pet lovers. And this is where most of the marine livestock are being sold.

This needs to be read by everyone....

Thats how brick and mortar places afforded the walls and electricity- not to mention its employees....

Are you buying single polyps or an inch of acro for over a $G at a brick and mortar establishment?

Didnt think so.....

 

[SIR PATRICK]

Think about it...........

 

[swanny]

That's actually a brilliant idea. Sometimes a handful of simple categories can make things a lot easier. Can you give some more detail on the 1-for-1 exchange? I understand obviously that a frag of a really rare zoa, chalice or SPS would go into the high category and a small piece of GSP would go into the low category. But where would a 6" rock covered in GSP fall? Or a 10-head hammer? Or do you just do frags and colonies don't really make the cut?

Offtopic: Grats Broncos, great performance.

Thanks, what a year for the Broncos! Also, my in laws are form La, love your state, just not July. To answer your question, no colonies just frags. Literally everything usually fits in a pee cup. GSP would fall into category one, easy to care for and propagate, a hammer frag probably cat. 2, and yes rare chalices, nice acro and zoas would be cat 3. It's subjective for sure but the guys that run the club make a group decision. Raffle tix are handed out and that determines who gets to pick, and of course the ticket is designated for whatever category you traded in.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

rant alert

I get that people want to make money on corals but it's gotten to the point it's more about greed than making money. The zoa trend is probably the most comical of all. When I see 15-100 per polyp, I start wondering who in the hell is buying this? You can't even get a good colony of anything anymore because everyone wants to cut everything into small pieces and charge what they use to for large versions. I saw this "Nuke" green torch for 300 dollars. I paid 300 for our Huskie and she's a hell of a lot more entertaining than a torch coral. lol. Don't even get me into the renaming of corals. "Incredible Hulk Zoa" "Darth Maul zoa" "24k Torch" Give me a break. Last rant. The 40 dollar PURPLE HAZE mushrooms. These should have a street value less than a damsel. I had so many purple mushrooms in my tank I couldn't even see the other corals. They grow like weeds. I guess it all comes down what people are willing to pay for it. This hobby has a lot of people with more money than smarts, no offense, I'm one of them most of the time.

rant over

Your post is by no means a rant. As others here have stated, this issue has abound for many years now and many are sick of it. You are spot on, it's greed. The majority of the buyers you spoke of are indeed newbs who came into the hobby post 04/05 and simply aren't aware what those zoanthid prices were before gouging, pimping and chopshopping began. Many aren't aware that they aren't brought to market on frag plugs. Still others will buy simply for resale profits. You're also correct in that you can't find any colonies for sale. Of course when someone states this, you're always directed to Diver's Den where you will indeed find colonies. Those colonies of course are always dull browns, faded green and washed out pale reds etc. You won't find anything of color for sale there or anywhere, and why would you. Reefers themselves are responsible for these skyhigh prices ( GOUGING ) and the rest are following suit. Their cover, oh it's supply and demand, which has been debunked by the multitude of reefers who are and were here long before 2005. Please see the link below and take note of paragraph 9.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-02/ac/index.php

As someone stated, I too love the "Back in the day " threads. It gives merit to just how long many reefers have been concerned with gouging. We've gone from a baseball size colony full of zoas and palys for $ 40 to $ 50, to now buying 2 of those same polyps for $ 40 or $ 50. And to think it all began when Peter and Timmy decided to give them a name, call them rare, chop them up into 50 pieces and raise their value to per polyp 100, 200 and 300 percent, and here we are. I use to laugh at this practice, but it's no longer humorous. This practice will never end unless everyone collectively stop paying these prices as my friend 650 has stated.

The very best place to find cheap, colorful and affordable polyps can be found in your local reef clubs. Align yourself as I do with reefers who feel as we do around the country and share with them and they will do the same. My friend on the west coast, ( who has posted in the thread ), gives frags away in his DNBTC ( do not break the chain ) giveaways. I have hosted many online Trivia Giveaways. There are also sellers out there who will do the same, you just have to seek them out. Click on the example below to see how great deals can be found. Believe it or not, I found sellers selling the same zoanthids by the polyp for $20 a polyp. REALLY ?

Read the entire link below, but please note post #17 in the link below.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2062730

Your concerns are not a rant by any means my friend, it's been going on since 2006, note the dates in the thread below.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/s...id=913053&highlight=disturbing+zoanthid+trend

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1920486

MUCHO

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Adam did a write up about photoshopping on another reefsite. It was a good long one. Props to Adam for writing that up.

BTW- you want to stop all these price gouging....... STOP BUYING AT THESE STUPID PRICES that are just fueling the craze. People won't ask for stupid prices when there are individuals that will pay for it regardless of price. If you have a hundred people stop paying for a certain coral and only a handful of "Well off" individuals are left paying, do you think that price remains the same. This topic has come up over a hundred times and has been talked about for years and years now. It starts with you the hobbyist, you ARE the first cog that turns the gears. If you are shelling out hundreds or thousands for a SINGLE polyp, 1/4" frag or an eye of a coral then you are just continuing to allow this to continue.

Do you really think the individuals selling these corals for a couple thousand spent hundreds or thousands to get these pieces?? Ask those divers in the 3rd wold countries how much they're getting paid. How much the dealers are selling these to these collectors or vendors who end up marking these corals up 300-1000% which you the customer ends up paying. In the end, its all a choice and a freedom to do so.

I myself choose not to aid in continuing these practices or environment.

I agree 1000% my friend.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

I also think that one of the contributing factors that aid in folk complaining about higher prices is the lack of sharing information regarding lower/more reasonably priced vendors.

It's beyond ironic in this hobby that's sustained on the sharing of husbandry information that many will not wish to mention the names of vendors of which they got a "good deal". But they'll give you 2 pages of what they did to get good growth, or advice on lighting, water parameters, etc.

There's a reason most of those people don't avail themselves. Think of how many have sold or given away 15 polyp frags for $ 20, only to find out later that those same people chopped them up and made hundreds of dollars. I know, it happened to me several times so I stopped that practice.

I've just returned to the hobby after a 5 year break and zoanthids are my new niche and it's funny that amount of post you'll read saying "hey I snagged some rainbow death butt-monkeys at an awesome price!!" but they are never willing to divulge this information to fellow hobbyist.

Just ask them where they got them.

I'm speaking in terms of online vendors obviously. I've gotten some great deals from local reefers and I've also been given some crappy offers to sell by those who are either looking to make a profit on coral and by those looking to "break even" i.e they paid 20 bucks a polyp so they charge you 20 bucks a polyp.


IMHO those who are concerned should do what they can to have an effect on this by simply sharing WHERE you found good deals online. Compile a list of vendors who you think sell great coral at a good price. Spread this knowledge to as many as you can, so others can order from those vendors and avoid being the sucker, and by rewarding those vendors for their business model while avoiding the price hikers.

Great idea, I would love to see that.


MUCHO REEF

 

[tang named junkyard]

Hot off ebay. lol

 

[MUCHO REEF]

I just read the article by Mike Paletta entitled, "THE MADNESS OF PHOTOSHOPPED CORALS". I think everyone new to reefing should read it.

Mooch

 

[pfan151]

Hot off ebay. lol

Lol, hopefully no one falls for his ads.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Hot off ebay. lol

Another common photoshopped $ 3.00 frag = $ 296.00 in profits.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

I wish there was more trading amongst hobbyist. Why charge each other money for coral? Why not just post pictures of what you have and trade with others. Much more enjoyable than paying $$$ for frags. Let's pass them around and enjoy the hobby! Look at the livestock trading section on this forum...it's virtually empty. That's a shame...

If you seek out like minded people in your area who share your sentiments, it can be done. Build your own network of reefers locally and you'll save tons of money. But seek out ethical reefers to receive sustainable corals.

Mooch

 

[Fish4ead]

Yeah, a big part of aquaculture was to help save or natural reefs. Of course making prices too high makes it cost prohibitive for a lot of people and reduces the number of people who can participate whereby further preserving or natural reefs.

 

[reefcentral123]

Hot off ebay. lol

rainbow space monster paly













:fun2:

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Yeah, a big part of aquaculture was to help save or natural reefs. Of course making prices too high makes it cost prohibitive for a lot of people and reduces the number of people who can participate whereby further preserving or natural reefs.

You make a great point and I agree 100 %. However, as many have stated in this thread already, greed, price gouging and outright lying has superceded the true purpose of aquaculturing among fellow hobbyist. This is why I only support ethical reefers. Buying a mother colony of 50 to 60 polyps for $ 60 on Monday, fragging said colony into 30 two polyp frags on Tuesday and attaching them to white plugs, making up a name on Wednesday, calling it rare or just released on Thursday, just discovered by Peter himself, and selling it on Friday for $60.00 to $ 999.00 is not ethical. This is why there is such a high mortality rate with these frags within days of arrival. I'm told the 2 polyps which sold for $ 2,400 both died within days of arrival. Hmmmmmmm ?

MUCHO REEF

 

[TimeConsumer]

Even here on RC in the coral selling forums you see photoshopped pictures with blue fingers.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Even here on RC in the coral selling forums you see photoshopped pictures with blue fingers.

I've taught my students to never look at blue pictures as they will never see what is truly there. If you adjust the balance ( reverse photoshopped ) backward until the egg crate, substrate or finger is its natural color, then and only then will you see what is truly there.

 

[ChadKeller]

I totally disagree. First off, if someone is willing to pay $500 for a piece of coral it obviously is worth that much to that particular person, it's simple supply/demand economics. I'm not willing to pay that much for a coral, but as long as there are enough people willing to then the coral IS worth $500. The bigger issue is are these prices "killing the hobby", I would say no, just the opposite, it is providing a greater variety of corals available to us all. It is ridiculously expensive to travel to some of the most remote regions of the world to get permits, collect, transport and then grow out new and beautiful corals. If the collectors cannot recuperate their expenses by charging a premium for these difficult to acquire corals then no one will go to the time, trouble and expense to bring them back to us.

I could not agree more. I collect pinball machines and the same thing happened in that hobby. High prices and the price police complaining. It's very simple, if you don' like the price don't buy it. 20 years ago my reef tank never had the option to get 90% of the coral I see now. Price was cheap but so was selection. You can still get beautiful corals reasonably priced if you go for some corals that have been around for a long time. They still look great.

 

[USC-fan]

I been reefing for a long time. It always been like this. SPS and zoas have anyways been the worse.

Years ago i photoshop some Aiptasia and posted on our local reefing forum. people were lining up to get some. That really open the eyes to our local guys of buying based off online photos. And yes it was a joke i didnt sell any!

 

[dkeller_nc]

Actually, there's one aspect of this that I think is a good thing. Take the punching bag of the moment, "Cornbred". There's little doubt that the adverts are deceptive, the names applied to the goods are idiotic, and the prices are amusingly ridiculous.

However, the fact that the individual is still willing to pay the listing fees strongly suggests that there are at least a few willing dupes that pay what's being asked.

And the nasty streak in me simply thinks that's appropriate punishment for foolishness and the afore-mentioned "look what I got!" attitude.