The whole coral pricing has become a joke

[MUCHO REEF]

Actually, there's one aspect of this that I think is a good thing. Take the punching bag of the moment, "Cornbred". There's little doubt that the adverts are deceptive, the names applied to the goods are idiotic, and the prices are amusingly ridiculous.

However, the fact that the individual is still willing to pay the listing fees strongly suggests that there are at least a few willing dupes that pay what's being asked.

And the nasty streak in me simply thinks that's appropriate punishment for foolishness and the afore-mentioned "look what I got!" attitude.

Newbies who came into the hobby post 04/05 don't know that all zoanthids and palythoas were cheap. They are the ones being fooled. I don't believe in sharing PMs, text messages or emails, but I have received dozens of replies from newbs stating they never knew about what prices use to be and how this whole mess started. Many have now refused to pay these prices and thanked me profusely.

Others who choose to pay hundreds for a polyp which can die overnight, are only doing so for resale. As soon as the 1 polyp frags produces a new polyp, they hack it off to sell it and justify their asking price by showing what they paid for it. Totally unethical.

If someone wants to pay a hundred bucks for a polyp, hey, it's their money. However when you pay these prices the seller now justifies his price point to the next guy. This is why you see polyps that I owned over 20 years ago being sold as 4 polyp frags for $60.00 when I paid $30.00 for a 40 polyp colony back in the 90s. Obtw, they are now being called rare......come on people....they're not rare. This is a game and it's running many new reefers away from the hobby because they can't afford to stock a tank with sky high frags many of which will die. There are dozens of threads on this issue.

The biggest mistake a reefer can make is being caught up by the hype of owning everything, what's new, what everyone else has, putting your name on something and trying to be the first.

Mucho

 

[dkeller_nc]

Personally, I think it'd be doing a great service to the hobby to post a "buyer beware" sticky in the Newbie forum on RC and several of the other popular reefing sites. But I'll let you take that up with the moderators; such a post would need to be carefully worded.

That said, I don't get the impression that newbs are the ones purchasing single-polyp zoas or "bounce" mushrooms for incredible prices. And I'm not sure that they're all going to frag sellers, either; I suspect a good deal of the traffic are simply reefers that simply must have what they perceive to be the latest & greatest.

One would also think that a newb would quickly encounter Diver's Den, Pacific East Aquaculture and various other outlets where the asking prices are far, far lower than the foolishness on fleabay.

 

[chilli_reef]

This post is so true. I'm in a third world country and we are one of the biggest LS supplier for the marine hobby like Indonesia. Every week there are always new items, and even sharks and smaller rays can be Boughy at fairly reasonable prices

Giant clams can have prices raining from $3-$6 depending on sizes

LPS like torches, hammers, galaxea, bubble coral, frogpspawn, octospawn, long tentacle planted and brain corals can cost at $1 for a 3-4 headed colony. $5 for a fairly large colony around twice the size of an average human palm.

Fishes are dirt cheap. $0.5 for common fishes like mower blennies, flasher wrasse, fairy wrasse and a different damsels. $2-$4 for firefishes, clowns, colorful blennies and gobies and smaller angelfishes. Larger fishes tend to be more expensive but still pretty cheap compared to most LFS at US.

They will pay the divers a certain amount per bag of fish. And each bag of fish can contain damsels, or colorful wrasses. The larger the fish the higher the price but they got paid in dirt cheap prices. Corals were paid for every sack collected. A sack can contain an assorted amount of LPS, SPS and softies. And each sack is pretty cheap. The divers were paid really low, thus the fairly low prices at the LFS here. The cartimar in our country is one of the most popular places for pet lovers. And this is where most of the marine livestock are being sold.

Those are prices island native collectors selling to places like Walt smith....that's no where near wholesale pricing from a place like Walt smith (Walt smith is just a random use...not a patsy)

Whole sale prices are triple those to say the least in 99.9% of cases.
And then there is shipping.... Air freight from say...Tonga to the US is on the order of $120 per $100 lbs (those are really old numbers.. Probably higher today).
And that's to say....lax. Then you pay customs inspection fees or a brokerage House, import duty fees, and if your not picking it up then this means your using yet another wholesaler like a store in fish alley (like 95% of all non ca residing LFS do BTW)...and the price goes up again. Two boxing fees so far (place of origin and the middle man in fish alley), customs, brokerage, and duties ......
Now that the middle man is in the picture, prices go up again per piece and they get their bs "ultra grading" and such. and air freight is the same as over seas.....
Stores in fish alley tack on all of the above to their wholesale if you are using them.
Very few order direct because you have to pick it up your self at port.
And then there is the real cause of such huge price gouging.....
CHERRY PICKERS !!! Those lovely folks that have friends that work in fish alley stores and literally pick over every ones crap. Take the best and leave the rest.

It happens every day... I've seen it.

I'm sure ive rambled at some point because I'm about to hit the bed lol ! But you get the idea....
So stop blaming your LFS and the source !
Its the middle men and idiots buying and selling on eBay !

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Personally, I think it'd be doing a great service to the hobby to post a "buyer beware" sticky in the Newbie forum on RC and several of the other popular reefing sites. But I'll let you take that up with the moderators; such a post would need to be carefully worded.

I don't think that will happen.

That said, I don't get the impression that newbs are the ones purchasing single-polyp zoas or "bounce" mushrooms for incredible prices. And I'm not sure that they're all going to frag sellers, either; I suspect a good deal of the traffic are simply reefers that simply must have what they perceive to be the latest & greatest.

It all depends on your definition of a newbie. I have spoken with and exchanged emails with several who have and when I showed them what they truly purchased, they didn't feel good to say the lease about their purchase. Others are indeed paying these ridiculous prices for the sole purpose of chopping off the first new polyp that appears. This practice has been going on for years. I had people contact me to help them with these frags that went downhill and some that died after purchasing new frags they chopped. This is a hobby and not a get rich quick scheme. I just don't get the desire to have a frag of every single polyp on the market, over having a basic understanding of husbandry.

One would also think that a newb would quickly encounter Diver's Den, Pacific East Aquaculture and various other outlets where the asking prices are far, far lower than the foolishness on fleabay.

Maybe they start there, but other factors lead them to do otherwise. It has been stated numerous times already by others in this thread and many many threads in the zoanthid forum alone. I'm not saying all, but many to most........unless of course they read one of these threads. I've invited several of them to come here and share their story.

Mucho

 

[SIR PATRICK]

Those are prices island native collectors selling to places like Walt smith....that's no where near wholesale pricing from a place like Walt smith (Walt smith is just a random use...not a patsy)

Whole sale prices are triple those to say the least in 99.9% of cases.
And then there is shipping.... Air freight from say...Tonga to the US is on the order of $120 per $100 lbs (those are really old numbers.. Probably higher today).
And that's to say....lax. Then you pay customs inspection fees or a brokerage House, import duty fees, and if your not picking it up then this means your using yet another wholesaler like a store in fish alley (like 95% of all non ca residing LFS do BTW)...and the price goes up again. Two boxing fees so far (place of origin and the middle man in fish alley), customs, brokerage, and duties ......
Now that the middle man is in the picture, prices go up again per piece and they get their bs "ultra grading" and such. and air freight is the same as over seas.....
Stores in fish alley tack on all of the above to their wholesale if you are using them.
Very few order direct because you have to pick it up your self at port.
And then there is the real cause of such huge price gouging.....
CHERRY PICKERS !!! Those lovely folks that have friends that work in fish alley stores and literally pick over every ones crap. Take the best and leave the rest.

It happens every day... I've seen it.

I'm sure ive rambled at some point because I'm about to hit the bed lol ! But you get the idea....
So stop blaming your LFS and the source !
Its the middle men and idiots buying and selling on eBay !

Agreed- I am glad I am not the only one whos seen it.

Cherry pickers- Getting the best and buying it all, then calling it rare because so few have seen alot of it- but they got thousands of polyps/colonies in the back....

Selling single polyps on ebay

 

[reefbroao]

I cant even explain how aggravated I've become with my own reef club recently. My philosophy is that were all hobbyist and this hobby is so expensive why not trade. If I do sell its for a low price because I'm not a retailer and that's how it should be, but I still see people posting $60 a polyp palys/zoas, $600 ultra corals and others alike. For the same reason I will not and have never owned a scoly, because the prices are just laughable for what looks like a nerf Frisbee.

Its a joke to buy these rare corals that are only rare because of the greed within the hobby. I share because id rather be the guy who spread a wonderful coral around than the guy who has that coral that everyone wants.

 

[chilli_reef]

+1..................
. ...
........

 

[chilli_reef]

Agreed- I am glad I am not the only one whos seen it.

Cherry pickers- Getting the best and buying it all, then calling it rare because so few have seen alot of it- but they got thousands of polyps/colonies in the back....

Selling single polyps on ebay

Heck yeah they do.....
There are On line stores Im familiar with that to this day still employ the services of cherry pickers in fish alley. Who are nothing more then the workers they have gotten tight with in fish alley, or locals who know them.
The village idiots you see on eBay selling three polyps for $299 are obvious shills. They are eBay sellers hyping their own crap under other user names. Corn bed how ever may just be a legit village idiot.... I haven't ruled that out yet ! Lol !!!

 

[reefbroao]

lol cornbread does have some insane sps though lmao

 

[chilli_reef]

Is almost as bad as all the " look at me ! Look at me! Join my *blow smoke up your but over priced aqua gadget* "club" threads.

Really guys.....?
Really ?

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Agreed- I am glad I am not the only one whos seen it.

Cherry pickers- Getting the best and buying it all, then calling it rare because so few have seen alot of it- but they got thousands of polyps/colonies in the back....

Selling single polyps on ebay

This is all part of the game that is being played and now exposed. It has been stated time and time again over the past 8 years or so by many who know the truth. The cherry pickers label everything as rare and the cycle continues down the line. Many will and have conspired with others whom they know who have the same morphs to only chop a few at a time to sell to the public. It's a concerted effort to limit what is on the market while hyping them to the max to have every newb and collector salivating with credit cards in hand.

It's not just new stuff, I just saw many frags on a retail sight being labeled as rare. Lolololol.....they are some of the first polyps I ever owned over 20 years ago. I mean it's almost commical, and many people are falling for it and paying hundreds for common polyps found in every LFS around the country.

I find it utterly hilarious when someone who has been reefing all of 2 years who has resorted to price gouging, lying and chopshopping telling me that these polyps are rare when they were seen everywhere in the 90s. Come on man, REALLY ??????

I have helped retail stores with these rarity claims, I even contacted one Web site about its claims of one particular morph and told them what they were stated was unequivocally wrong and they were glad to make the correction.

Mucho

 

[MUCHO REEF]

I cant even explain how aggravated I've become with my own reef club recently. My philosophy is that were all hobbyist and this hobby is so expensive why not trade. If I do sell its for a low price because I'm not a retailer and that's how it should be, but I still see people posting $60 a polyp palys/zoas, $600 ultra corals and others alike. For the same reason I will not and have never owned a scoly, because the prices are just laughable for what looks like a nerf Frisbee.

Its a joke to buy these rare corals that are only rare because of the greed within the hobby. I share because id rather be the guy who spread a wonderful coral around than the guy who has that coral that everyone wants.

I hear you my friend and I highly concur. Prior to 04/05 when this mess started, that is exactly what most of us did. We made it a point to give corals and unused hardware to newbs to get started. If we did sell something, they were $5 to $25 frags covered with polyps. That practice is seldom seen today. I have given frags away to newbs who later gave them a name, then tried to sell a few polyps back to me for skyhigh prices. It's really sad what greed has done to this hobby.

So what's the remedy?

 

[vertigo01]

As I am a rather new beginner to the reefing community, I agree that people are asking astronomical prices for what amounts to little more than a 1" colored twig or some colored button with eyelashes.
Fleabay is not the only place where such price gouging is taking place, facebook is another.

It would be wonderful if enough people such as yourselves ( those who disagree with the price inflation ) started your own forum or group in an effort to bring the cost back down to reality.
Rant over

 

[reefbroao]

I have been thinking more on this topic recently as I scroll through my local clubs facebook page. I'm become more and more upset with the prices. Prices regularly hit over hundreds. It makes me hate the people who are consistently posting "high end" corals and it's always the same people who have this junk. I can't handle the greed. Its a totally fictional market that has been created out of thin air.

 

[TimeConsumer]

They're right though. Make a local frag swap. Do what the guy said they were doing in his Colorado reef club. Put frags into 3 tiers (high, med, low) and swap within your tier. If you guys want to do cash too make them $10, $20, and $30 or something like that. Expand it into a separate group over the internet if you want. You just need to seek out likeminded people.

Do you have a skill you can swap for frags? I've already talked a little to some in the local club where I'll be moving to (Atlanta) and put it out there that I'll be willing to trade macro photography work for frags.

 

[vertigo01]

There are 2 ways to help bring down the overly inflated prices.
1. Spread the word to others to quit buying such frags.
2. Undercut their pricing by a large margin as well as giving said frags some stupid catchy name all the while calling it rare or hard to get.

The latter being true in the sense that it is rare to get a decent frag for a decent price as.

 

[DubiousMaximus]

The funny part here is that many different retailers lurk the forums & they won't change a thing until we refuse to pay the artificially inflates prices. And when we don't they drop prices, then put on sale etc. If we all keep in mind that they want to move the corals out asap bc they'll die in their tanks if they dont, total loss.

Keep an open mind but not so open that your brains fall out ('',)

 

[Frontier]

It always comes down to economics. Flood the market with relatively inexpensive, colorful, frags and the prices will fall naturally; driving many of these "suppliers" out of business.

 

[iReef1234]

Are those purchasing the "rare" stuff doing so in order to say they bought it? I mean, what's the motivation here?

I feel like I would buy something "rare" to show it off or try to recoup my cost by propagating it. Hard to do the latter when you have to wait for grow out. Is this why frags are getting smaller and smaller? I've seen one "eye" being sold which amounts to a pinky fingernail.

Also, from my understanding the collectors are not getting JACK compared to what the importers are asking $ wise. Indonesia and the Philippines aren't exactly rolling in dough. Imagine if we told them how much they should be asking for the colonies they collect! It may well be their entire annual salary. :/

 

[borderreef]

I will not order frags/buy from my lfs any more. It's not that I don't want to help out my lfs, but I'm extremely lucky to have several local hobbiests who sell frags as nice as any retailer for a fraction of the price. For example, 2" green slimmer with 4 large arms and three buds for $20. I know another guy who has hundreds of 1" frags he sells for $5 each.