TheFWC at Macna
- Thread starter scubasteve247
- Start date
blackthunda77
New member
I think a meeting with the FWC would be a great idea. It would show an interest in us wanting to make sure we are not breaking any laws and a good time to voice our opinion on laws we think need changed. Just make sure to tell bobby to have all the receipts ready from the wholesaler for the raffle items. HAHA
He must not which I don't understand. Thats ok though because there is a lot that I don't understand. :lmao: Everyone has their own opinion and thats ok also. I was just trying to understand where he was coming from. Its all good.
Sorry about my rant with the drug testing. I just see it as a rule to protect others. I still get ticked because unfortunately I know a few of these morons that fly for a living. Again, not my hubby!
Ok back to MACNA and the FWC.
jimbo78
Premium Member
20 years ago if i would have told that the government would be listening 'tapping' our phone calls. You probably would have not been to happy about it. If I would have told you that cities would ban large sodas, you would though the I was nuts.
You can say '' I got nothing to hide ", I say don't tread of me. Look up the history of that phrase.
Lacy, you said my comment about tickets was a little harsh. How do you figure. Laws are laws if you do business in a state you should know the laws pertaining to the business. Funny that on one hand you think that I don't like the" man" yet as stated I'm fine with them enforcing the laws.
Just don't stomp on my rights
You can say '' I got nothing to hide ", I say don't tread of me. Look up the history of that phrase.
Lacy, you said my comment about tickets was a little harsh. How do you figure. Laws are laws if you do business in a state you should know the laws pertaining to the business. Funny that on one hand you think that I don't like the" man" yet as stated I'm fine with them enforcing the laws.
Just don't stomp on my rights
nivram
New member
Guys Jimbo is entitled to his own opinion as are you guys. I'm sure we all would have handled the situation unique to our personal and professional beliefs. What I want you all to understand is FMAS (right or wrong) handled the situation the best way we saw fit.
I will follow up with the FWC on setting up a potential meeting in 2014. Maybe they can also talk about collecting.
I will follow up with the FWC on setting up a potential meeting in 2014. Maybe they can also talk about collecting.
marke
New member
Agree Marvin. Fmas did it correctly And the man was friendly, informative and didn't hurt anyone. Just a friendly warning that you need a couple inexpensive licenses. Could not have been handled any better. Jumbos political view I agree with. But stopping them at the door and telling the man who by the way never smiles or plays around would have been a war that would cost us dearly. Can't wait to hear from them at an upcoming meeting as communication and understanding are what's important here. Do they have to pay to come to our meeting? Lol
...But, political views have no place here. Because I can easily see the value in this thread, I'd like to leave it open. Doing so will require you guys to squelch the political commentary before you hit the submit button.
If I can count on you guys to do that, I can leave this discussion open.
jdhuyvetter
SWFMAS Event Coordinator
Marvin, any ideas who you plan on inviting? The enforcement guys and marine biologists tend to operate separately. If you want to talk about existing rules, enforcement is probably the group to talk too. If you want to talk to them about participating in future rule changes (ie my collecting comment), the marine biologists may be the ones to talk to. If you plan far enough ahead, it would be cool get someone from Tallahassee that could speak to both. However, the state is under pretty strict travel restrictions right now. Not sure how they feel about you reimbursing them for travel. I offered last year with a different state agency (artificial reefs w/FDEP) and was shot down.
nivram
New member
Jeff, I was thinking of trying to get multiple people Agencies. But I'd prefer to take this conversation offline. I'll send you an email. Not sure I have your phone number.
liverock
RC Sponsor
Enforcement continues......
Enforcement continues......
More federal indictments today for individuals crossing state lines, collecting illegal saltwater animals and shipping them via air cargo out of the state of Florida. Is sad to see such wanton disregard of the state and federal laws but as in prior investigations, the FWC and the Feds took two years to get all their ducks in a row, and dropped the hammer today.
Richard TBS
www.tbsaltwater.com
www.itzalodge.com
Enforcement continues......
More federal indictments today for individuals crossing state lines, collecting illegal saltwater animals and shipping them via air cargo out of the state of Florida. Is sad to see such wanton disregard of the state and federal laws but as in prior investigations, the FWC and the Feds took two years to get all their ducks in a row, and dropped the hammer today.
Richard TBS
www.tbsaltwater.com
www.itzalodge.com
jdhuyvetter
SWFMAS Event Coordinator
Post some links. I'd like to read up on this. I know they have been cracking down in the Keys for years on liverock, rics and occasionally fish (collecting without an SPL)
Right? Why post the comments with no links? This might be what he was talking about.
http://www.keysnet.com/2013/09/12/490091/michigan-men-charged-with-federal.html
jdhuyvetter
SWFMAS Event Coordinator
now that ticks me off. He has been a big aquaculture guy for over 20 years. He knows better. If any of that is true, I hope they throw the book at him and whoever held his catch and lied about it.
Hmmm. Sounds like he might be trading the illegally caught baby nurse sharks for designer clowns. Wonder if the people receiving the sharks know that they are illegal? Yep, like someone said there will be more morons like this to come. :uzi:
Taken from Tropicoriums website.
"(9/13/13 thru 9/20/13) Customer Appreciation Sale!!!
Hello to all: THANK YOU ALL!!! All of our tanks are full! Tons of designer clowns, unbelievable prices, cuz we're getting them for trade on our baby sharks and tank raised corals! ....."
"Court documents indicate many of the arrests were made after federal fisheries investigators raided a Grassy Key marine-life business suspected of selling sharks and other species that cannot be taken without special permits, which were not issued.
The new indictment says Perrin and Franko stored some of their illegal catch at a Middle Keys marine-life business, which arranged shipping to Michigan. The catch reportedly included undersized nurse sharks that were listed in documents as another species."
http://keysnews.com/node/48274
Here is another one.
I also agree, I hope they get the book (and maybe a heavy anchor :lmao
thrown at them.
Taken from Tropicoriums website.
"(9/13/13 thru 9/20/13) Customer Appreciation Sale!!!
Hello to all: THANK YOU ALL!!! All of our tanks are full! Tons of designer clowns, unbelievable prices, cuz we're getting them for trade on our baby sharks and tank raised corals! ....."
"Court documents indicate many of the arrests were made after federal fisheries investigators raided a Grassy Key marine-life business suspected of selling sharks and other species that cannot be taken without special permits, which were not issued.
The new indictment says Perrin and Franko stored some of their illegal catch at a Middle Keys marine-life business, which arranged shipping to Michigan. The catch reportedly included undersized nurse sharks that were listed in documents as another species."
http://keysnews.com/node/48274
Here is another one.
I also agree, I hope they get the book (and maybe a heavy anchor :lmao
thrown at them.You need a lot more then a SPL to collect marine life commercially
jdhuyvetter
SWFMAS Event Coordinator
He would have needed the SPL (with endorsements for Restricted Species and Marine Life) and a Shark permit for what was quoted in the article. The sea fans are protected no matter what. As for the baby alligators, not sure. But, Tamiami trail from Miami to Naples is all restricted (Everglades NP, Miccosukee Indian Reservation, Big Cypress NP and Collier Seminole SP)
This has become a very informative and interesting thread, even for an outsider from NY. I worried, one or two times that it was getting heated, but you guys impressed me, again by turning the heat down yourselves.
Special thanks to jdhuyvetter, it looks like you've taken the initiative and done things that will help everyone in this hobby. Thank you for your time and effort, this hobby could use more guys like you.
Also liverock for giving us a view from the business side. Knowing more about the amount of red tape you have to get through to be in the marine livestock business allows me to see some things in a whole new light.
Special thanks to jdhuyvetter, it looks like you've taken the initiative and done things that will help everyone in this hobby. Thank you for your time and effort, this hobby could use more guys like you.
Also liverock for giving us a view from the business side. Knowing more about the amount of red tape you have to get through to be in the marine livestock business allows me to see some things in a whole new light.
jdhuyvetter
SWFMAS Event Coordinator
I'm sure liverock could tell you lots of horror stories from his side. I know that in the beginning when wild rock was prohibited and they started leasing sea floor for liverock aquaculture, there were lots of hurdles to deal with. From time to time, you still hear of guys getting busted for illegal harvest of rock (either wild or from someone elses leased bottom) Most of the actions I have heard about the past couple of years have been related to coral, fish or ricordea.
Part of the reason I follow fairly closely is because I have a very good friend in the Keys that is a tropical fish collector. He's a small two man show, but he guards his SPL with his life. They have been restricted for several years now. Meaning, if you fail to renew it, or it is stripped from you in a court action (see the second article linked in this thread), it is gone forever. Over the years, I have met several other collectors in the Keys. I have met two that lost their SPL's. One failed to renew due to health reasons and the other lost his for illegally collecting live rock. Second guy also lost his boat and van since his place of business was his house. I know he did not get his boat back, but not sure about the van.
I personally have been stopped by FWC (and prior to that, the Marine Patrol) about 8-10 times over the years while collecting recreationally. Never got a ticket for collecting, but did get lectured once about collecting a live coral. The fact that it was growing on a Coke bottle didn't matter to the officer and he was not buying my story about "cleaning up the ocean". I did get one ticket once for not having a dive flag (I was collecting on the rocks adjacent to US1, no more than 10 feet from land)
So, whenever I see someone post up about what they collected, where to collect, etc., I usually jump in issue a warning about limits and licenses. Most people don't realize it, but the individual hobbyist actions have a huge say in how the hobby advances....at least in Florida.
Part of the reason I follow fairly closely is because I have a very good friend in the Keys that is a tropical fish collector. He's a small two man show, but he guards his SPL with his life. They have been restricted for several years now. Meaning, if you fail to renew it, or it is stripped from you in a court action (see the second article linked in this thread), it is gone forever. Over the years, I have met several other collectors in the Keys. I have met two that lost their SPL's. One failed to renew due to health reasons and the other lost his for illegally collecting live rock. Second guy also lost his boat and van since his place of business was his house. I know he did not get his boat back, but not sure about the van.
I personally have been stopped by FWC (and prior to that, the Marine Patrol) about 8-10 times over the years while collecting recreationally. Never got a ticket for collecting, but did get lectured once about collecting a live coral. The fact that it was growing on a Coke bottle didn't matter to the officer and he was not buying my story about "cleaning up the ocean". I did get one ticket once for not having a dive flag (I was collecting on the rocks adjacent to US1, no more than 10 feet from land)
So, whenever I see someone post up about what they collected, where to collect, etc., I usually jump in issue a warning about limits and licenses. Most people don't realize it, but the individual hobbyist actions have a huge say in how the hobby advances....at least in Florida.
liverock
RC Sponsor
For sharks you must posses a Federal Shark permit, either directed or incidental permit....and to posses and purchase/sell sharks you must also have a Federal shark dealer permit.
Note there are four types of Marline life endorsements that go on an SPL, and none of them can be obtained anymore unless you purchase an existing license from somebody...and then only a MLD or MLB.
Alligators are a big no-no. No harvest unless you apply and are picked in the lottery each year for harvest, then you are allowed two in certain areas and dates.
There is a MLD endorsement "marine life dive" which allows the holder to collect marine live in the state of Florida and posses commercial quantities in permitted areas.
There is a MLB endorsement "marine life byproduct" which allows the holder to collect and save marine life in the state of Florida while on a vessel such as a bait shrimp boat, lobster boat, blue crab boat, any vessel that is permitted in the state for their particular activity to be able to retain permitted quantities of marine life while on-board that vessel and fishing in the vessels fishery as by catch.
There is a MLC endorsement "Marine life curio" which allows the holder to collect and save marine life associated with the curio trade, like starfish, sand dollars, live shells in permitted areas and quantities.
There is a MLN endorsement "Marine life non transferable outside of your immediate family". Is the same as a MLD limits wise.
Here is the official state regs
Only MLD and MLB endorsements are transferable after initial issuance. The sale or transfer of the Marine Life endorsement will result in forfeiture of that endorsement.
Marine Life Endorsement Transfer Form Instructions
1. Read the application carefully, print or type clearly, and be sure to complete all sections. For assistance, contact the Office of Licensing and Permitting in Tallahassee (850) 487-3122.
2. Only the Marine Life Transferable Dive (MLD) and Marine Life Bycatch (MLB) endorsements are transferable after initial issuance.
3. Seller must hold a valid MLD or MLB (as well as a valid SPL and RS) at the time of transfer.
4. Buyer must hold a Saltwater Products License with a valid Restricted Species endorsement in order to receive the Marine Life Endorsement (MLD or MLB).
5. Buyer must pay a fee of $75 to the Commission for the Marine Life Endorsement.
6. Buyer and/or seller must pay a fee of $10 to the Commission for the reprinting of their Saltwater Products license with the Marine Life Endorsement.
7. The sale or transfer of the Marine Life Endorsement (MLD or MLB) will result in the forfeiture of that endorsement on all Saltwater Products Licenses held by the seller.
8. No person, firm, or corporation shall be issued more than one Marine Life Endorsement type or more than one unique Marine Life Endorsement number.
9. An entity that holds a Marine Life Bycatch (MLB) endorsement cannot enter into a purchase agreement for a Marine Life Transferable Dive (MLD) endorsement until they sell or permanently forfeit the Marine Life Bycatch (MLB) endorsement at the time of transfer.
10. A Marine Life Transferable Dive (MLD) endorsement may only be applied to two Saltwater Products Licenses in any one license year.
11. A Marine Life Bycatch (MLB) or Marine Life Non-transferable Dive (MLN) endorsement may only be applied to one Saltwater Products License in any one license year.
12. The Marine Life Non-transferable Dive (MLN) endorsement is not transferable outside the immediate family.
13. After initial issuance, no endorsement may be converted from one type to another, except that an entity holding a Marine Life Transferable Dive (MLD) may convert to a Marine Life Non-transferable Dive (MLN) after initial issuance. This MLN can never be converted back to a MLD.
14. In the event of death or permanent disability of a person holding a Marine Life Endorsement (MLD, MLB, or MLN), the endorsement may be transferred by the license holder or the executor of the estate to a member of his or her immediate family within 12 months of the date of death or disability only after the recipient pays any outstanding fees, fines, or penalties to the Commission in full.
15. If the Marine Life Transferable Dive (MLD) endorsement has been applied to more than two Saltwater Products Licenses, only the initial MLD, which serves as an endorsement for no more than two Saltwater Products Licenses, can be transferred. The sale of this portion of the endorsement will result in the forfeiture of the endorsement on all other licenses held by the seller.
16. Transfer period is from May 1 thru midnight, last day of February, of each year. Requests received by the Commission before May 1 or post marked after the last day of February will not be processed.
17. An entity who wishes to transfer a Marine Life Endorsement must submit this statement of intent that has been signed and notarized by both parties to the transaction and hand delivered, or sent certified mail, return receipt requested, to the Office of Licensing and Permitting, 2590 Executive Center Circle, East, Suite 101, Tallahassee, FL, 32301. The transfer request must be received by this office within three days of the date of the notarized signature of the intended recipient.
18. Upon receipt of a marine life transferable dive endorsement (MLD), the transferee has 12 months from the date of purchase to produce trip tickets and document income from the sale of marine life as defined in Rule 68B-42.001, F.A.C., in order to renew the endorsement. Once renewed, this endorsement will be valid for three years from the date of documentation used to qualify, but must still be renewed annually by September 30 of each year.
19. All Marine Life endorsements must be renewed before September 30 of each year. Failure to renew by September 30 will result in the forfeiture of the endorsement.
Pursuant to the provisions of the American with Disabilities Act (ADA), any person requiring special accommodations is asked to contact the ADA Coordinator at
Richard TBS
www.tbsaltwater.com
www.itzalodge.com
AquamanE
Active member
This thread has lost its intention:
While i appreciate all the knowledge and such with relation to collection, either legally, or otherwise in the State of Florida, and i agree with Larry (DGen) that it is very informative, this thread was about the FWC present at MACNA 2013.
The folks at MACNA 2013 where not collecting in FL waters. They brought there stuff in from their States, and businesses.
Considering that other Fl clubs (or even FMAS) might want to bring another MACNA to FL, can we just discuss that, and how it might affect another event of this magnitude in our State?? This is the second time FWC approaches MACNA in FL.
It would be much more educational if we can finalize the needs, and necessary paperwork for future vendors coming into FL. There is another national event coming into our State in the next few months they would benifit from that info, vs collecting in FL, which most have no interest in doing.
just my $0.02
While i appreciate all the knowledge and such with relation to collection, either legally, or otherwise in the State of Florida, and i agree with Larry (DGen) that it is very informative, this thread was about the FWC present at MACNA 2013.
The folks at MACNA 2013 where not collecting in FL waters. They brought there stuff in from their States, and businesses.
Considering that other Fl clubs (or even FMAS) might want to bring another MACNA to FL, can we just discuss that, and how it might affect another event of this magnitude in our State?? This is the second time FWC approaches MACNA in FL.
It would be much more educational if we can finalize the needs, and necessary paperwork for future vendors coming into FL. There is another national event coming into our State in the next few months they would benifit from that info, vs collecting in FL, which most have no interest in doing.
just my $0.02
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