SHOmuchFUN
New member
Nope. Although it sure is purdy.
Think it's worth a grand?
- Thread starter romanr
- Start date
gcarroll
Active member
The cone of the ATB is not acrylic. The only acrylic on an ATB is the cylindrical pieces in the cup, neck and below the bubble plate.
As for this vs a SWC and ATB. I would consider this an ATB competitor. not a ATB econo competitor since it disassembles for easy cleaning. ATB will soon raise the bar to the next level with the introduction of the ATB Deluxe line.
The SWC is a look alike but is not well thought out like the others. Looks like there was no prototypes made for testing(hint: 3 different pump combinations on the same skimmer). Just press out one cone and give 3 different choices of air. Either way, they are selling well and the Askoll seems to be the pump of choice.
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jnb
Premium Member
performance (consistent performance) is key - but for me I totally have to also consider noise, ease to clean and otherwise maintain, and reliability.
I once had a top brand that had a ehiem needle valve pump. Ehiem is great yes - but they had modified this pump with 4 stainless washers - the washers sometimes vibrated against each other and slowed down the impeller and once worn thru - the impeller/magnet could get damaged. So that brand was out
Then I had another top brand and I always had to fiddle tune it - gone.
And yet another - always had to piddle with it to get optimal skimate results. And it had a propensity to overflow unpredictably - first to go.
My BK cost about as much as that new one above and all my other bad experiences drifted away with the BK - all of them.
Maybe there are better skimate pullers but they darn well need these other good attributes to be considered by me - and proven.
I once had a top brand that had a ehiem needle valve pump. Ehiem is great yes - but they had modified this pump with 4 stainless washers - the washers sometimes vibrated against each other and slowed down the impeller and once worn thru - the impeller/magnet could get damaged. So that brand was out
Then I had another top brand and I always had to fiddle tune it - gone.
And yet another - always had to piddle with it to get optimal skimate results. And it had a propensity to overflow unpredictably - first to go.
My BK cost about as much as that new one above and all my other bad experiences drifted away with the BK - all of them.
Maybe there are better skimate pullers but they darn well need these other good attributes to be considered by me - and proven.
gcarroll
Active member
The Red Dragon 1500 sells for $849 by itself. For an extra $150 you get the skimmer thrown in. What a deal. It is actually the best value that Royal Exclusiv is producing when you look at it. I would get this over a BK Super Marin. It does seem to be a better value with the same quality.
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gcarroll
Active member
You make an excellent point Creetin! People forget all the inovations that the BK introduced. This particular Vertex is far from a ATB clone. I look at it more as verification that cones are not a gimmick! This is Klaus' way of verifying it without verifying it.
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Treg
Premium Member
Re: Think it's worth a grand?
Its only $100 more then the equivalent MSX, at this intro price anyway.
It's kinda like a porsche boxster or that little baby mercedes. You'll feel good but your friends may still laugh at you for getting the cheap one. lol
I was all set for a warner cone but I think it may not be enough for my system the way it is shaping up. hurricone, vertex cone, econo cone, msx, or old school octo250 for my 180 sps tank.
:lol:
Thats funny, your going to make fun of the porsche boxter but looking at buying a ford. :rollface:
Its only $100 more then the equivalent MSX, at this intro price anyway.
It's kinda like a porsche boxster or that little baby mercedes. You'll feel good but your friends may still laugh at you for getting the cheap one. lol
I was all set for a warner cone but I think it may not be enough for my system the way it is shaping up. hurricone, vertex cone, econo cone, msx, or old school octo250 for my 180 sps tank.
:lol:
Thats funny, your going to make fun of the porsche boxter but looking at buying a ford. :rollface:
DodgeDude99
New member
am i the only one to think asking that much money for what it is (not knocking the actual product, just the fact that any skimmer there isnt a whole lot to it)is obscenely crazy?
DolbyDinosaur
New member
Incorrect. ATB, if anything, should be considered a COPY of the skimmer that Klaus posted about back in 2004. You KNOW this yet you:
A. Accept it for what it is and spread misinformation.
B. Are willingfully IGNORANT of the obviousness of this fact.
You wouldn't happen to be a Creationist, would you?
Even disregarding that, clearly, ATB is modulation of the KZ skimmer. It was modified as to evade the patent debacle a few years back (full cone body vs. partial cone body). Go take a look, ATB did several things to contend with the possibility of patent infringement, eg. pyramid cone...
Bollox, Klaus has already demonstrated to us that he has his own thermoforming facilities and they have nothing to do with China. See here:
http://www.royal-exclusiv.de/forum/...tyleid=1&sid=9a2300c056037db19b2df176bf6cfd0d
And then here:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1580074&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
I wouldn't look at it that way considering Klaus still considers the dual cone to be a superior design. I might be going out on a limb in assuming here, but I believe that Vertex went to Klaus looking for the prototype cone that he had been working on prior to the development of the Supermariner. They probably worked out a mutually beneficial agreement, eg:
Klaus - I make and sell the easy to produce cones without having to worry about distribution and marketing.
Vertex - I get a trendy high-end product from the best manufacturer this industry has to offer.
But then again, you know what they say about assuming, lol
-dolby
GSMguy
New member
you can believe what you want but watch the personal attacks, Klaus never posted any pictures of the 2004 cone, not here not meerwasser not on zeovit not here. the first picture surfaced in 08 with a claim it was a prototype from 04 but i think now its obvious that that was produced for this vertex line.... how could they be from 2004 if proline had not paid for the molds yet? he even went so far as to show pictures of the newly minted cones and say they were leftovers, from 4 years ago. i also have it on good authority that klaus was in talks wit Honya just last year, it is my beleif that this is the product of that meeting but if you can show me pictures of the molds in klaus' beautiful factory i will happily retract that statement.
where are the pictures of the thermoforming you speak of? all i see are finished cones.
The ATB is clearly not a modulation of the KZ it is a full cone with a bubble plate(thanks klaus) and a needlewheel pump, the KZ is a becket with a conical transition.
whats the deal why does every new cone have to aim straight at the ATB with claims of better performance when they still have not reached customers. i think its because they know who they are copying. i have no problem with the clones but that IS what they are.
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Heinz
Active member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14487149#post14487149 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GSMguy
HUGE? oMG, too kewl,actually it's the same size as the pump on the MSX and ATB.
laguna 1500
RD is custom made, there is nothing original, i am pretty sure you know that, but anyways,
is like buying a custom shelby mustang, which has nothing to do with a regular mustang, well the name, but thats it
GSMguy
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14490350#post14490350 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DolbyDinosaur
Klaus - I make and sell the easy to produce cones without having to worry about distribution and marketing.
Vertex - I get a trendy high-end product from the best manufacturer this industry has to offer.
But then again, you know what they say about assuming, lol
-dolby
that is illogical Proline/vertex already handles all the distribution and marketing for BK, and it takes just as much time to put a supermarin together as it does these cones. count the parts....
Heinz
Active member
you should take a look at this thread, where klaus is posting what he is doing, thread starts in 2004,
http://www.meerwasserforum.com/thread.php?threadid=15261
there he posts first pictures of the RDII, pictures how he manufactures the BK stuff,
i even picked up my BK 300 at his place, in 2006, and he showed me where and how he manufactures everything,
i saw, that he is building all of it, i was standing right there watching it,
i dont know why you keep posting like that,
GSMguy
New member
when i mentioned it as a clone i was not putting it down, the cones work. that is evidenced by all the Cloning.
in fact what i was saying was if this is cheaper than the ATB why buy the ATB.... i say customer service is the reason, but its not like proline is bad. they are just not Victor, just like the guys at ecotech are good but they are not Rodger (tunze). i was not trying to put down this skimmer, but i feel its important to look beyond the marketing hype of BETTER or BEST that is apparent with these new clonecones.
in fact what i was saying was if this is cheaper than the ATB why buy the ATB.... i say customer service is the reason, but its not like proline is bad. they are just not Victor, just like the guys at ecotech are good but they are not Rodger (tunze). i was not trying to put down this skimmer, but i feel its important to look beyond the marketing hype of BETTER or BEST that is apparent with these new clonecones.
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