Think like a fish

[Paul B]

Thank you Steve. Some family history there.
To get it back to fish, I did see fresh water red tail sharks in the jungle in Viet Nam, along with this guy. OK so he is not a fish, but I kept him on a leash for a while when I was in one place for a couple of weeks. He ate rats.
OK back to thinking like a lizzard, I mean a fish.

 

[scubasteve06]

Thank you Steve. Some family history there.
To get it back to fish, I did see fresh water red tail sharks in the jungle in Viet Nam, along with this guy. OK so he is not a fish, but I kept him on a leash for a while when I was in one place for a couple of weeks. He ate rats.
OK back to thinking like a lizzard, I mean a fish.

Thank you Paul I am very proud of where I came from and I am sure every serviceman and womans family can take pride in the sacrifices they have made for us just like I do. That is some picture!!! Is that a monitor type lizard? That is so cool so I'm guessing he was semi-tame if you could keep him on a leash, and did you feed him rats or did he actually hunt them down?

 

[Paul B]

He walked up to me in the jungle and I picked him up. He had some schrapnel in his tail but it didn't seem to bother him. He used to sit on Howitzer after we finished firing because it was warm. When I was on an LZ like in the picture we had rats all over the place because we had no place to put garbage. When I used to sleep in the rainy season I had wet rat footprints all over me because the rats would climb over me when I slept. Of course we just slept in the mud. It took a little getting used to. I got bit once when I grabbed one but I took him to a dog vet in a semi rear area and he kept him to see if he had rabies which he didn't. With all the shots you get before you go there I doubt I could even catch a cold much less rabies.
To feed him, I know this will sound gross but when we were in the bathroom, which was a 50 gallon drum cut in half with a machette out in the middle of everyone, (no walls of course,just a barrel if we were lucky) I would take some M-16 rounds apart and remove half the powder. Then I would fill the round with soap. I would use this to shoot the rats that were hanging around my feet while you were indesposed if you know what I mean. The soap would kill or at least cripple the rats so I could feed them to the lizzard. Also the soap was not strong enough to kill any of my comrades that were walking around. It was also quiet.
Typical LZ in monsoon season. Those "Tents" are not tents but ponchos,we had no tents.

 

[scubasteve06]

He walked up to me in the jungle and I picked him up. He had some schrapnel in his tail but it didn't seem to bother him. He used to sit on Howitzer after we finished firing because it was warm. When I was on an LZ like in the picture we had rats all over the place because we had no place to put garbage. When I used to sleep in the rainy season I had wet rat footprints all over me because the rats would climb over me when I slept. Of course we just slept in the mud. It took a little getting used to. I got bit once when I grabbed one but I took him to a dog vet in a semi rear area and he kept him to see if he had rabies which he didn't. With all the shots you get before you go there I doubt I could even catch a cold much less rabies.
To feed him, I know this will sound gross but when we were in the bathroom, which was a 50 gallon drum cut in half with a machette out in the middle of everyone, (no walls of course,just a barrel if we were lucky) I would take some M-16 rounds apart and remove half the powder. Then I would fill the round with soap. I would use this to shoot the rats that were hanging around my feet while you were indesposed if you know what I mean. The soap would kill or at least cripple the rats so I could feed them to the lizzard. Also the soap was not strong enough to kill any of my comrades that were walking around. It was also quiet.
Typical LZ in monsoon season. Those "Tents" are not tents but ponchos,we had no tents.

Wow that is some conditions that you were in over there. I can only begin to imagine the feeling of a rat crawling over me while I was asleep, let alone waking up with one on me and getting bit by it! That soap idea is ingenious I'd have never thought of that, I bet those little furry rodents didn't know what hit them! It surprises me that the lizard would eat them dead, but then again if you look at the Komodo Dragons they gorge on rotten flesh all the time so, its not that surprising. I bet y'all were looking for any kind of companionship out there and it came in the form of a lizard for you lol. I bet he was in hog heaven getting fed by people and not having to catch anything for himself! My friend had a type of igauna that would close his eyes and kind of sway back and forth whenever you would stroke his head while he slept on your chest or lap. That was one cool iguana his name was Fester. Did your lizard happen to have a name by chance?

 

[Paul B]

The lizzard did not have a name but DukDuk here did. This was my real friend. I took him from a little kid in a hamlet, I think I gave him some C Rations for it. He had the duck on the handlebars of a bicycle hanging by his feet. I could not se the thing suffer like that so I took it and figured to let it go.
He could not fly and stayed with me for months. Wherever I went he would run after me and stop at my feet. He would sleep with his head on my shoulder and very quietly all night he would go quack quack, almost a mumble. But about 4 or 5 am every morning he would QUACK QUACK in my eat until I fed him some Vietmnamese rice or C rations.
I flew in a helocopter every few days and sometimes I would take him. I had to hold his wings down because he would flap them, I guess he thought he was flying.
I stayed on LZs out in the field my entire tour, I built 14 of them, some were in Cambodia.
I took that duck to about 5 or 6 of them and I had him until I left. I then gave him to my helocopter pilot.
We also had three monkeys. One was a very tiny one called Crossbow, he would live in one of the guys shirt pockets.

It surprises me that the lizard would eat them dead,

Most of them were not dead. I also invented a live rat trap to catch them live.
They were all over the place so it was not difficult.

 

[scubasteve06]

The lizzard did not have a name but DukDuk here did. This was my real friend. I took him from a little kid in a hamlet, I think I gave him some C Rations for it. He had the duck on the handlebars of a bicycle hanging by his feet. I could not se the thing suffer like that so I took it and figured to let it go.
He could not fly and stayed with me for months. Wherever I went he would run after me and stop at my feet. He would sleep with his head on my shoulder and very quietly all night he would go quack quack, almost a mumble. But about 4 or 5 am every morning he would QUACK QUACK in my eat until I fed him some Vietmnamese rice or C rations.
I flew in a helocopter every few days and sometimes I would take him. I had to hold his wings down because he would flap them, I guess he thought he was flying.
I stayed on LZs out in the field my entire tour, I built 14 of them, some were in Cambodia.
I took that duck to about 5 or 6 of them and I had him until I left. I then gave him to my helocopter pilot.
We also had three monkeys. One was a very tiny one called Crossbow, he would live in one of the guys shirt pockets.


Most of them were not dead. I also invented a live rat trap to catch them live.
They were all over the place so it was not difficult.

That is so cool a pet duck!!! Man you got some cool stories, I could sit here all day and trade back and forth with you listening to the stories you tell. Duckduck thats a cool name, I would of felt bad for the poor guy too. The boy was probably going to have roast duck that night, and you saved him from an inevitable meal most likely:hammer:.

 

[johnike]

Sorry to stay off track, but thanks again all servicepeople and wonderful stories as always Paul. Are you still in touch with your friend in Iowa?

 

[Paul B]

Are you still in touch with your friend in Iowa?

No, I spoke to him that one time and I E Mailed him but he never got back to me.
I was with him in Basic and AIT and we went to Nam together but we went to different units as soon as we got there and I never saw him again.

Sorry for the war stories
What was this thread about?

 

[lordofthereef]

Thinking like a fish!

But tbh your war stories are the most interesting. There are even pictures!

 

[Paul B]

But tbh your war stories are the most interesting. There are even pictures!

Then we should make a (cleaned up) war story thread.

How many Veterans do we have here? No, not animal doctors.

 

[lordofthereef]

Thinking like a fish!

But tbh your war stories are the most interesting. There are even pictures!

 

[snorvich]

Then we should make a (cleaned up) war story thread.

How many Veterans do we have here? No, not animal doctors.

While I am not a veteran, I would love to read war stories and see war pictures. Please let me know if you do this.

:beer:

 

[Paul B]

While I am not a veteran, I would love to read war stories and see war pictures. Please let me know if you do this.

I don't normally do that and don't want to remember most of my Viet Nam experiences but if you like reading about that stuff, I was here on this day. This is the battle that caused or allowed us to go into Cambodia. I was the Commo Chief for the 1/77th field artillery.
You can look up other accounts of Fire Support Base Illingsworth. You may even find me there.

http://we-were-soldiers.com/2008/08/11/my-memories-of-firebase-illingsworth-on-april-1-1970.aspx

And Peter Lemon here received the Medal of Honor that night. And he deserved it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_C._Lemon

 

[gillies]

Interesting thoughts on diving, Paul B. I've been diving since 1998 and couldn't agree with you more. On dive boats I call them "swimmers" - the folks who jump in, get to depth, and proceed to swim rapidly from one "oh look at that over there!" to another. Funny thing is, by the time they get "over there," whatever they were after just ducked for cover, so off they go to the next soon-to-retreat discovery.

The best dive I've had to this point was in 12' of water off the Fiesta Americana in Cozumel, Mexico. There was a lone coral head about the size of a desk chair sitting in sandy bottom 25 yards off the beach. My wife and I snorkled out and dove it. I sat on the bottom with my legs splayed gently around its base, while she knelt in the sand behind me and held onto my shoulders - this kept us stable against the never-ending current there.

Of course everything ducked for cover at first, so we waited patiently. After some time, all the critters started peeking out at us and quickly darted back. Later, they ventured out in tentative steps, almost to taunt or test us. After that, they began to focus on each other and their own little world. How beautiful it was. How interesting to see their behavior. I'm there now, just thinking about it. Awesome.

In regard to using what I've observed diving and applying it to aquarium husbandry, one thing does stand out for me. Again, per my un-scientific observation, it seems the little fish that naturally stay close to the rocks and live their lives within perhaps several feet, if not inches, of one area may be the best specimen choices for the limited space offered by even the biggest home aquarium. Not judging, just saying... But one has to wonder if the tang, butterfly, and angle fishes that I've observed so many times swimming freely over considerable distances on the reef can be truely happy in our enclosed environments. Perhaps as juveniles?

Nice thread. Thought provoking.

 

[Paul B]

But one has to wonder if the tang, butterfly, and angle fishes that I've observed so many times swimming freely over considerable distances on the reef can be truely happy in our enclosed environments. Perhaps as juveniles?

If fish can experience "happiness" I am sure they are not happy in a tank. After being in that vast ocean with a smorgasborg of food and company of unlimited "friends" surrounded by relatively cleaner water 40 or 50 feet deep, able to cruise 50, 100 or 1,000 yards in either direction. I am sure that if they have a memory, they wish to forget.
I have been diving since the 70s, much of it from my own boat but I remember one dive in Mexico. Of course on those dives you have to follow a guide. We were following the guide and the guy in front of me pointed to a large green moray eel. The thing was in a rock the size of a Volkswagon beetle and his head was sticking out of one end and his tail was sticking out the other end, so this thing was about 8 or 9' long.
The moron behind me swam up to it and tried to do a Jaques Cousteau and pet it under it's chin.
The fish probably never met Mr Cousteau and bit this Jaboni. He had his entire arm in his mouth almost up to his elbow. He was shaking the guy back and fourth and I was hoping he would swallow the rest of him so that I could continue with my dive.
But the eel let him go and the water filled with blood, which appears black at debth.
Of course we could not just let the sharks eat him, we had to surface and bring him back to the dock, a 3 hour boat ride then spend the rest of the day in a Mexican hospital.
Of course I am paying for this trip, and the dive.
That night he had a crowd around him and he was telling the story of how this monster fish attacked him for no reason.
I am only mad at the moray for not eating him whole.

 

[Sk8r]

My own theory is that it's, for most fish that hang near a reef, about territory. I keep a 54 g, and the preferred fish are the smaller blennies and gobies, and a dragonet or two---they pick their 'spot', and thereafter don't stray from it even the width of the tank; which is probably pretty much the life they'd have had in the wild.--no predators, which is a bennie for them. But they never 'know' that, so they keep expecting one, and react to shadows. I thinking 'overstocking' relates as much to forcing fish into territory violations as it does to gallons per inch. [Then there are mandys, which have no concept of territory, or have one I've never parsed; and tangs, which seem to just get in schools and go like a giant ouija pointer, directed by the first fish with a notion in huge movements. I think the little guys are a lot happier in tanks than some, because they're just doing what they'd do if left in the ocean.

 

[gillies]

LOL I'd say "Crikey!" but that might slam poor Mr. Erwin. Some folks just can't leave well enough alone, though. :spin3:

 

[gillies]

I think 'overstocking' relates as much to forcing fish into territory violations as it does to gallons per inch.

Word

 

[Paul B]

If you watch mated clownfish on a reef they could be in a 2' wide anemone, they also take over the entire rock as their home chasing away all newcomers. That alone is larger than the width of my tank.
Fish in the sea have a lot of area to call their own but in a tank territories overlap causing stress to the fish and me. Last week I lost a watchman gobi that I had for five years or so. The larger mated pair didn't bother with him much when he was younger but when he reached a size where the larger male was threatened, he bullied him so much that he killed him.
My pipefish have the same problem even though the tank is 6' long. If I put two males in there, there is just not enough room. In the sea one would just move over 10'

 

[TVenters]

So heres a question for you diver folks...

I know tangs swim, but do they really cover that much territory while doing that, or do they tend to stick to the same area of the reef? I guess in human terms, do they stay in the burbs or do they roam the whole city at will?