Thinking about getting tank started again-have some questions

[Aaron1100us]

Hi, I haven't been on here in ages. We've moved 4 times in the past two years so I haven't really been able to keep an aquarium set up. Its been two years now since I had my 75 going. It was up and running for a year or so in Cedar Rapids, then we moved to Pella and I only had it set up for 6 months or so before I decided to sell all my fish and corals. A year and a half ago now, we moved back to Cedar Rapids and lived with my mother in law, no aquariums there. Now, we finally have a house of our own and I'm going to start planning a (hopefully) 90 gallon set up. Since my wife just got out of college and isn't working yet, I won't be able to do too much of anything quite yet, just the planning part. Since this first year of owning our home is going to be kinda tough, I've given myself a year to get this planned an set up. That seems like a long time and if I'm lucky, I can get it going sooner, as long as I can come up with the funds.

I've brought most of my aquarium stuff with me up here to the new house. I have a 75 gallon aquarium but the glass isn't that great, little scratches in it and no internal overflow. So, I'm hoping to get a 90 gallon reef ready if possible and plumb it to the basement. Our house is old, built in 1885 so I think I'm going to need some supports under the floor. The wall that I'm going to use has a wood access panel that was used to get to the plumbing at one time. I plan on drilling holes in that and running the pipes down to the sump and refugium in the basement.

I need some advice on what equipment to get and the best way to accomplish this. From the floor of the basement where the return pump will be to the top of the aquarium on the main floor with be about 13-15 feet. But the sump can't be right under the aquarium. I'll have to use about 25 feet of PVC pipe going from under the floor where the aquarium is over to where the sump is on the other end of the basement.

1. Does anyone know what return pump I'll need to go up about 8 feet, over 25 feet and then up another 5-6 feet and still have enough gph?

2. How many gph will I need at the aquarium from the return pump? will it still be 10x the water volume?

3. I plan on getting a 50-100 gallon stock tank for the sump plus a 29 gallon refugium that I allready have. What will I need for heaters? What about an inline heater? I have two 350 watt heaters already.

4. I have a top fathom skimmer running on an iwaki pump rated at 250 gallons. Will that still be enough?

5. I have a dual 250watt halide/220 watt VHO light setup but want to go to a dual 150w Sun Pod to reduce electricity costs. Will that be ok for most anything?

6. I'd really like to get a tunze stream setup, will I still need 10x water volume turn over from the sump/refugium?

7. Is there anything you can think of to help me keep electricity costs at a minimum? That was the main complaint from my wife about my aquarium, she hated it because it cost so much in electricity.

8. What size of PVC pipe will I need for the overflow? There will be at least 4 90 degree bends.

I'm wanting to get a 90 or another 75 reef ready since I have a stand that will work for both. I might have to find something smaller if this setup is going to rack up the electrical bill a bunch.

So, I'm hoping to get something planned this summer and then start slowly getting everything. I'm starting to help a guy here at work get his 29 gallon reef going and now I've got the bug back

 

[got2lb]

1. Don't really know about what kind of return pump to use, prob. have to use the head loss calc. on the homepage to figure that out.

2. You really only want to run about 600 gph through your sump, the rest of the flow in your tank you will want coming from either powerheads or closed loop.

3. The heaters you have I think would be plenty.

4. Not familiar with that skimmer.

5. If you're going with the 90 I would prob. keep the 250 watt halides. That's a pretty tall tank for the 150 watters to penetrate. Waverz runs 150's on his 75 though. Also depends on if you're planning on keeping SPS or softies?

6. The tunzes are pretty pricey but def. good pumps with very little electricity used! Your turnover on the tank all depends really, are you going with a Deep sand bed or barebottom etc... If you're going barebottom you'll want a lot of flow to keep things from accumulating in the tank. You want to keep it all in suspension so that your overflow can pick it up.

7. With your sump in the basement that should help keep the whole system cool so you shouldn't really need a chiller or anything I wouldn't think. Have a lower photo period, use effecient pumps, (tunzes are good, eheims, etc..)

8. I'd use at least 1" plumbing for everything if not 1.25 or 1.5" The bigger the pipe the less amount of head loss you'll lose. Less restriction.


Oh yeah, welcome back! Hopefully we'll see you around at a meeting soon!

 

[leeweber85]

Keep the 250's. My sps do so much better under my 250 than they do under my 150s.

 

[Aaron1100us]

Here is a rough draft of what I came up for what I'm going to have in my basement. I'm going to use 3 32 gallon plastic trash cans. Two for fresh water and one for salt water. I plan on getting a 100 gallon sump, refugium and possibly a mangrove tank. I already have two 32 gallon plastic trash bins, 2 20 gallon aquariums, 29 gallon aquarium and stand (for refugium/mangrove tank). I also have an RO but plan on getting a prefilter and DI. My idea for all this is to have a good sized sump, a refugium and possibly a mangrove tank, all in the basement. I'm also planning on making it as automated as possible. I'm going to build a control panel with switches for all pumps, heaters and lights.

That way, I can fill the salt mix trash can up with fresh water just by flipping a switch, then turn on the mixing pump and heater. Once the water in the 32 gallon salt mix tank is at the right temp and right salinity, I can then flip another switch and fill the sump. The sump will have a pump for draining, one for return, one for skimmer, one for refugium and one for mangrove tank. There will be a heater in the 2nd fresh water holding tank for top offs too. The only thing I will have to do is physically add salt to the salt mix holding tank.

Let me know what you think about this set up? Oh, according to the head loss calculator, I'm thinking about going with a Blueline HD 55, Gen X 4, or Gen X 5 for return. 15 foot vertical, 25 foot horizontal with about 5 90 degree turns, one or two ball valves using 1 inch pipe.

Here is my rough draft of what I came up with

 

[matt the fiddler]

Welcome back!

a couple of things that really stuck out to me!

1- if your plumbing is over sized [like 1.5", when you need 3/4" inch] that long horiz run won't hurt as bad like was said earlier.. I am more worried about the Drain size and sump size.. i would not EVER run a drain that long horiz, unless it was on a closed loop. I would angle it in that spot at least a little so over 30 feet it would drop 4- 5 feet. that i also would not want to be small. [1.5- 1.75? depending on GPH] Don't plan on having much turnover in your sump. Don't use 90 degrees. use two 45s ESPECIALLY on the return when it is low pressure. Even better is flex PVC. Heck, running two drains in that situation might be wise.
---------------------------
now that i think about it more. I would not run that situation drain that unless you can run Diagonally in directly to the sump. IF you run your return pump line up that, then you have cut back on a lot of the plumbing, right angles, etc= smaller pump, = less electricity. The return pump of that size will make the lights seem like nothing for electricity. [at 100% of the time vs. 80% of the time for the lights.]






to reduce electricity on the lights don't fire both up all the time at the same time.


have the L come on for a few hours, them both on for an hour or so, then just the right to finish the day off. all corals get intensity and enough light. Stay with the 250's the 150's won't be enough for sps.

remember, slow running horiz. pipe will also collect detritus quickly, and slow over time as it builds up.


on your diagram the freshwater tank dumping into the sump is asking for a siphon. be careful there.

 

[musty baby]

You can gravity feed your skimmer from the aquarium return line, in fact that is probably best, then run from the skimmer into the sump. Saves a pump.

You can grow mangroves in a refugium, if you'd like. That would save yourself from needing another pump and some plumbing.

Could you also drain by gravity to a floor drain? If so, there's no reason you'd need a pump for the sump drain, just install a stopcock of sorts on the sump and instead of flipping a switch, turn a lever.

 

[matt the fiddler]

That skimmer, I would probably think of converting to a beckett injector. I am not sure how much air that "ventri" will push out,

I am unfamiliar with that skimmer as well. I would go and research int he equpt. and dry goods forum, even posting and seeing what people say about it. What size of pump for the skimmer?

 

[musty baby]

Definitely agree with matt on the larger diameter pvc for long runs, and keeping some sort of drop to the return line will likely be important too. On ANY 90 on your setup, use pvc sweeps, flex pvc, or get out a torch and bend the pipe to the angle you need. Hard angles can really restrict flow (though obviously a 45 is much better than a 90)

 

[matt the fiddler]

Can you clarify?


will everything [all external non sump tanks] have the long run, or will everything but the display be close in to the sump?

you could T the return pump, or have a series of gravity fed stages

if the other tanks are closer to the display, i would recommend plumbing them off the display, and not to the sump

even better... can you build the refugium/ mangroves into the sump?


If all else fails, you may want to try to keep the sump in the stand of your main tank..... I am doing that now, as I don't have a closet or a basement..... an accordion room divider can keep the pumps hidden

 

[Aaron1100us]

It sounds like the drain from the aquarium will have to be good sized and with a angle so it won't be horizontal. I won't use 90 degree turns and try two 45 or that flex pipe. Its kinda tight where it will go through the floor, up through the inside of the wall and out to the aquarium so I might be forced to use a few 90's. I didn't think about that stuff earlier, thanks. The straighter, the better. I also didn't think about siphoning from the water supply to the sump, might have to add a check valve or ball valve.

ryansholl,

I'm not sure what you mean about gravity feed the skimmer? This skimmer requires a high pressure pump.


The skimmer works wonderfully. It is a Top Fathom TF200A skimmer. 25" tall, 6.25" diameter, takes a high pressure pump at 500gph and is rated for 200 gallons. The pump that I have it on is an Iwaki WMD-30RLT. I've used this skimmer for about two years without any problems.


Nothing is going to be close to the tank. I have only one wall that I can put my tank on. I have only one spot in the basement for my sump and other equipment. It just happens to be at the opposite end of the basement about 25 feet away from where the aquarium is on the main floor. It sucks but thats what I've got to deal with. Besides the lights, I might just have a tunze stream or two in the aquarium, thats it, everything else will be in, or near the sump. I had the sump under the stand but don't want to go that route this time, too much of a pain.

Will a 100 size sump be good or should I so smaller? It won't be filled to the top, maybe half way or 2/3.

 

[Coralfreak]

Will a 100 size sump be good or should I so smaller? It won't be filled to the top, maybe half way or 2/3.

You cant really have to large of a sump, just make sure the total water volume is within the capacity of your skimmer.

 

[Aaron1100us]

That would make sense. I suppose having a 100 gallon sump might be a little big unless I only keep it 1/2 to 2/3 full. With a 90, a 29 and possibly a 20 also hooked up, that would leave me with 61 gallons to add up to the 200 gallon capacity of the skimmer. But from what I've heard, its better to stay below the capacity of the skimmer to its more efficient. I'd like to get a new, bigger skimmer but thats probably going to have to wait for a while.

Theisen's farm store has the Rubermaid stock tanks but the label does not say if they are treated for algae or not. In their add, it says they reduce algae though. Not sure exactly what brand and type to buy.

 

[matt the fiddler]

FWIW, I have a 75 gallon tank and a 20 gallon sump that never gets close to the top 2 inches with everythign stopped.


However, that is one tank. if you oversize your plumbing, you are going to have to do volume calculations on the pipes.

I would also reccomend a low sump turnover, and provide the water movement with powerheads or closed loops...... Give that, Even though I love barebottom, I would not reccomend going that route without the capicity for large water turnover to the skimmer.

 

[Aaron1100us]

What would a good turn over rate be for the sump? Would I be ok going below 500-600gph for the return? If I could get by with a smaller sump and a smaller return pump than what I was thinking, that would save me just that much more money.

 

[matt the fiddler]

if you have sand, IMO you would be fine at 350-400, there is much debate on the turnover, many large tanks have low turnover through the sump. There was a big discussion on it several years back... no chance of finding the thread being a non paying non search engine member [like me]

 

[Coralfreak]

IMO, 4-5X is plenty, you can have more but it isnt really needed. 3X would be the minimum you should shoot for. As Matt said, in a 90 350-400 would be just fine.

 

[Aaron1100us]

Ok, thanks. Pumping only that much will let me get a smaller, more electricity friendly pump. Plus the drain would handle the slower flow better.

 

[matt the fiddler]

keep your drains oversized though

 

[Atticus]

Well this is a great time to be comming back into the hobby. Make sure you are taking advantage of all of the recent for sale threads!!!

 

[reeffreak1]

There are a ton of them...

Just wish I was at a point where I could take advantage of them.