This is crazy, our tax dollars at work

I recall a story about a little girl who started a business selling cookies or something and "they" shut her down because she didn't have the proper permits to SELL food. So her mom tied a ribbon to the cookie and she sold ribbons with a free cookie included. Genius.

Anyone else find it funny that they just created a black market for these things? Does fwc not have enough to do with poachers and thong patrol?? They directly pressed on a outdated law (against the spirit IMO) in order to justify their continued existence and maybe get a little more money in the budget. Genius.

Soon it will be their share of your rain water collection, then their share of your solar power too. Apparently I can't go 20 miles offshore and collect 100# of sand... The whole f*****g state is sand but i cant have some? Some contractor grading a parking lot and pulling up to st pete beach with his dump truck to load up is too much, but, the sand is mine, I live here, I pay taxes, I have a share.

:deadhorse:
 
Actually there was an article about rain water and solar and how it's illegal to produce your own water and electricity and live off the grid.
 
I'm actually surprised this is news to so many people on here. Did it really never I occur to so many of you that selling coral would require some type of license? We are talking about a fairly heavily regulated industry.
From what I understand you just need to get an aquaculture license to be legal in most cases of selling frags from your tanks. From the FWC website: "The holder of an aquaculture certificate is not required to purchase and possess a FWC commercial freshwater fishing/dealers license or saltwater products license in order to possess, transport, or sell marine aquaculture products. "

Here is the link to the aquaculture license:http://www.freshfromflorida.com/Div...es/Aquafarm-Program/Aquaculture-Certification
 
Like Travis said, it is an annual fee BTW, just so nobody thinks it is a one time thing. For renewals you can do pretty much online from what I read on the application and the link.
 
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I wish someone had the resources to lawyer up and bait the lawman to come. I still really think they are overstepping the intent of the law.
 
The thing to do is start a petition to create a hobbyist exemption of some sort. Get enough signatures and they will listen. Trying to bait the fwc and fighting them is playing with fire imo.
 
Just received the following email from the FWC:

The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) recently concluded a joint operation with partner agencies designed to protect the environment, lawful businesses and public safety.

During the four-day “Operation Wild Web” operation, officers and investigators used the Internet to find those intentionally selling fish and wildlife illegally, as well as committing other crimes.

Cases involved the unlawful sale of pythons, bearded dragons and many other reptiles; freshwater and saltwater fish; native migratory birds and many exotic birds; as well as businesses operating without licenses and the illegal sales of vessels.

“Licensed facilities and legal business can be checked to ensure animals are handled safely and humanely,” said FWC Capt. Rett Boyd, who supervised the operation. “But unlicensed facilities go without inspections for safety and cleanliness. And without a record of where they got their animals, these facilities could potentially spread dangerous diseases through their transactions, without any way to track the source of the problem.”

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Office of Law Enforcement, North Carolina Wildlife Resources Commission and the Georgia Department of Natural Resources also participated, addressing issues in their own states or subject matter areas.

“We designed this operation to more efficiently protect our resources,” Boyd said. “Some people may think operating online is a way to get away with taking advantage of protected species, but we are dedicated to working with our partners to stop that.”

Written arrests (notices to appear) and warnings were issued in 24 counties from Polk to Escambia. Most were second-degree misdemeanors, punishable by up to $500 in fines and up to 60 days in jail.
 
Postal said:
Just received the following email from the FWC:

The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) recently concluded a joint operation with partner agencies designed to protect the environment, lawful businesses and public safety.

During the four-day "œOperation Wild Web" operation, officers and investigators used the Internet to find those intentionally selling fish and wildlife illegally, as well as committing other crimes.

Cases involved the unlawful sale of pythons, bearded dragons and many other reptiles; freshwater and saltwater fish; native migratory birds and many exotic birds; as well as businesses operating without licenses and the illegal sales of vessels.

"œLicensed facilities and legal business can be checked to ensure animals are handled safely and humanely," said FWC Capt. Rett Boyd, who supervised the operation. "œBut unlicensed facilities go without inspections for safety and cleanliness. And without a record of where they got their animals, these facilities could potentially spread dangerous diseases through their transactions, without any way to track the source of the problem."

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Office of Law Enforcement, North Carolina Wildlife Resources Commission and the Georgia Department of Natural Resources also participated, addressing issues in their own states or subject matter areas.

"œWe designed this operation to more efficiently protect our resources," Boyd said. "œSome people may think operating online is a way to get away with taking advantage of protected species, but we are dedicated to working with our partners to stop that."

Written arrests (notices to appear) and warnings were issued in 24 counties from Polk to Escambia. Most were second-degree misdemeanors, punishable by up to $500 in fines and up to 60 days in jail.
Click to expand...

Operation Wild web happened last year http://www.ifaw.org/united-states/news/“operation-wild-web”-selling-wildlife-online-doesn’t-pay
 
I emailed the FL dept. of AG about this issue and asked for some clarification on hobbyists and selling / bartering. The response I got is posted below. It backs most of what has been said here regarding the laws.

Simply owning corals as a hobbiest does not require an aquaculture certificate. This certificate is intended for persons conducting business in aquacultured products. My understanding is many hobbyists swap corals amongst themselves or give corals to others when they out grow their systems versus selling them. You can check with Florida Fish and Wildlife to see if a saltwater products license is needed to swap corals, but coral swaps would not fall under an aquaculture certificate.

The commercial production and sale of aquacultured coral frags would require an aquaculture certificate. Please see our weblink for more information.
http://www.freshfromflorida.com/Div...ry/Aquafarm-Program/Aquaculture-Certification

If your intentions are to sell aquacultured products, certification can be obtained regardless of the size of your operation as long as you are following our Best Management Practices (BMPs). We do ask for a business plan. We do not have a quota of sales but you would probably want to plan to sell more product than your licensing fees and all certified sites are subject to biannual site visits for BMP compliance visits.

Please feel free to contact me to discuss the certification process. You may apply for a certificate any time of year, once certified it would expire on following June 30th, we are currently issuing certifications for the new year, expiring June 30, 2015.
Click to expand...

Based on the third paragraph, if you want to sell a coral , you need the aquaculture permit. You are free to give it away. I'm not 100% sure on what a trade is considered, she mentioned possibly needing a saltwater products license, which I thought was more for the retail shops.
 
I propose you follow a model similar to Japan's pachinko parlous. Gambling is illegal but you play pachinko and win silver balls which you trade in for prizes or "gold tokens." These plastic tokens can be swapped for cash -- but not within the pachinko parlor. Instead, you need to go to a TUC shop which is located nearby. Its a legal loophole enabling you to win money in a country that technically forbids gambling.

So coral for for beads (which we love in Tampa) and beads for cash.

:beer:
Disclaimer: This is a joke, please do not try this at home!
 
I guess from now we should do swap meets. And anybody who has system there selling just make sure you either get a liscence or give the coral for free when they buy an item. There always ways around things but I pretty sure growing frags and selling them is going to slow down I for see. So who whats to start a underground black market for home hobbyist :) (joking)
 
asmodyus said:
Operation Wild web happened last year http://www.ifaw.org/united-states/news/“operation-wild-web”-selling-wildlife-online-doesn’t-pay
Click to expand...


asmodyus said:
I guess from now we should do swap meets. And anybody who has system there selling just make sure you either get a liscence or give the coral for free when they buy an item. There always ways around things but I'm pretty sure growing frags and selling them is going to slow down I for see. So who whats to start a underground black market for home hobbyist :) (joking)
Click to expand...
 
So I will be bold and go back to my original statement "this is crazy, our tax dollars at work". I will be glad to debate anyone that defends the stupid enforcement from FWC of laws that clearly were not written to enforce adherence to the Joe Hobby Joe. Our Government has become a joke and I don't want to turn this into a political debate, but I will debate anybody thinking this is good behavior by the folks we pay. They don't have a clue what they are doing. Have you folks entered some of the stores that have licences? I have been to most all in Tampa, Largo, Sarasota, and Venice. 1/4 of them should be shut down. They don't quarentine, don't know what compatibilities are, they don't even know what some of the stuff they sell is for. How is that protecting us from the almighty evil hobbiest? I for one am offended by these fools and the folks we call "service to the community".

flame away at me....
 
From FWC's press release: “Licensed facilities and legal business can be checked to ensure animals are handled safely and humanely,” said FWC Capt. Rett Boyd, who supervised the operation. “But unlicensed facilities go without inspections for safety and cleanliness. And without a record of where they got their animals, these facilities could potentially spread dangerous diseases through their transactions, without any way to track the source of the problem."

If that isn't enough, the lionfish and man eating snake fiascos should give good support to the argument. This is Florida. Second only to Hawaii, we need to be vigilant about the nature of tropical exotics that are imported and how they are traded.
 
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