This is what happens when you overdose phosphate..

[Plantbrain]

Sarah, that looks a lot like my tank a couple weeks ago. I had a ton of brown diatoms covering everything. I hooked up a skimmer to the tank and its clearing up nicely. Hopefully i wont need the skimmer much in the future. Looking good BTW

Keep the skimmer, but not for inorganic nutrient removal, but for aeration, adds CO2.
Set it up to aeration and not skim.

This will definitely improve plant growth growth.

Regards,
Tom Barr


3rd annual Plant Fest July 8-14th 2005!

 

[Plantbrain]

Yes, no critter load to kill allows more testing and screw ups and seeing how far things can be pushed.

It also removes a fair amount of the organic fraction of N, P etc.
I'm interested in what the base line is without critters, then we can go from there.

The diatom bloom seems fairly standard from higher PO4 dosing.
I've repeated it several times.

NH4 in a marine tank is used, but generally as soon as it's bioavailable, it's removed. Perhaps even more so than in FW.

Jobes are fine as long as you do not uproot them and they are buried deep, you pull one up 3-4 months later, there must 100 stories involving algae plagues with this same thing occuring.

The AGA is anti Marine plants due to my suggestion of the Marine planted tank. I asked a couple of years ago.

Amano the same way.

Bovine manure.............
A plant is still a plant.

So where does a marine planted tank go to get respect?
corals, plant like sessile inverts and a couple of bits of Ulva don't count. Or do they?

Does it have to have 50% or more weeds to qualify?

Lots of questions on that one.

You can add any tank to the Show case AGA event.
Those are seen by quite a few folks.

Regards,
Tom Barr




3rd annual Plant Fest July 8-14th 2005!

 

[billsreef]

Tom,

Check your PM's please

 

[Samala]

Yeah.. check the PM's I want to come to Plant Fest! (Were you gonna hop a flight for plant fest too Bill?)

>Sarah

 

[billsreef]

Not sure if I'll be able to make Plant Fest myself, but I did ask Tom for the info so I can make a sticky post in this forum

 

[Plantbrain]

Tropical Fish Hobbyists is sending a person to do an article on the event.

I think I will do some PO4 smapling as it's the critical component in the Keys and our Tanks.

I will do two types of measurments:
SPR in the water column and Total PO4 in the pore water of the substrate.

We often see cases in Fw where there is no PO4, hardness etc in the surface waters, yet the plants are growing, the nutrients are coming from the substrate if they are not present in the water column.

Plants will use the water column first, then go after the substrate when the water column is limited. Macro algae with rhizoidal thallus to much lesser extent.

Therefore when considering nutrients levels, one must see if there is a limitation in the water and then other potential sources such as the pore water.

This is seldom done yet critical in interpting the horticultural aspects.

Bill, I'll get the site up, there's last years FW site still up, we will add more later in a day or two.

BTW, the Fw event is fun as the Marine version even if you don't have a fish tank at all, folks have a good time.

No one has been eaten by a gator or barracuda yet

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[waterdog1]

where did you get the stargrass?

 

[Samala]

A few really ratty looking colonies washed up on shore at the Titusville boat ramp/marina in the Indian River Lagoon (IRL) in central-eastern Florida. That's the Atlantic side but the lagoon is a bay-type environment. Theres no provisions on collecting seagrasses that are uprooted and washing up to shore so, I took em! I also grabbed manatee grass and shoal grass in this fashion. Fish and Wildlife officers did stop to question me though, they are very serious about their seagrass there (mainly cause its manatee food and an incredibly valuable part of the ecosystem down there).

My Dad sent me Halophila baillonis (I think that's the one) which is paddlegrass that washed up on shore in the same way. That colony lasted a few weeks in a veritable seagrass ICU and withered away without growing. I think it was just on its last legs when I got it. I'm hoping to get a stronger colony this July in the Keys. :-D

>Sarah

 

[moosejac]

Earlier there was mention of the need to aquascape in way a that would promote the hobby. Usually when someone is aquascaping, especially in fresh planted tanks, people keep many things from the same area together, for a sort of "biotope". So what could be kept in a tank such as Sarah's sea grass tank? Fiji rock would be out of place... right?

 

[billsreef]

Since the South Pacific also has sea grass beds, you could do a Pacific Lagoon. However, since most sea grass available in the hobby is tropical west Atlanic in origin, Florida cultured LR or Haitian LR would be best to go for a true biotope. Condy anemones are readily available, as are rock anemones which are found in the grass beds. Also ricordea and several different gorgonians are common sold from the same area.

 

[Plantbrain]

A few really ratty looking colonies washed up on shore at the Titusville boat ramp/marina in the Indian River Lagoon (IRL) in central-eastern Florida. That's the Atlantic side but the lagoon is a bay-type environment. Theres no provisions on collecting seagrasses that are uprooted and washing up to shore so, I took em! I also grabbed manatee grass and shoal grass in this fashion. Fish and Wildlife officers did stop to question me though, they are very serious about their seagrass there (mainly cause its manatee food and an incredibly valuable part of the ecosystem down there).

My Dad sent me Halophila baillonis (I think that's the one) which is paddlegrass that washed up on shore in the same way. That colony lasted a few weeks in a veritable seagrass ICU and withered away without growing. I think it was just on its last legs when I got it. I'm hoping to get a stronger colony this July in the Keys. :-D

>Sarah

The irony about Fish & Game fretting over the seagrasses, is they do nothing to boaters who leave massive scars all over the shallow seagrass and macro algae beds. Boaters get a free pass and cause most of the destruction. To manatees for that matter as well. I really do not see how they can say anything with straight face when they see it EVERY SINGLE DAY out in the field.
:headwalls:

 

[billsreef]

I thought that at one time they were pretty up on fining boaters for running thru the sea grass beds and dredging scars. Sad to think that isn't the case

 

[Plantbrain]

I thought that at one time they were pretty up on fining boaters for running thru the sea grass beds and dredging scars. Sad to think that isn't the case

Not much, they watch the reefs a bit.........no anchoring etc.

Not a lot of enforcement really.

They have cut most state funding for enforcement, cut hours, and personnel. I cannot blame/fault the indviidual officers or DEP.
I did imply that above and that is not fair to them. Nice to think they do all this work by having these laws, but if no one pays for enforcement and people to do that job...............nothing can be done.
It's like having lots of laws, and no police. They are in a very tough spot.

I get asked maybe 1-2x a year about spear fishing, but never for anything else. I thank them, and off they go. It really is the "high seas" in many ways. I've seen guns pulled over fishing spots and diving spots. Add some booze.....then it gets worse. All you have to do is look and you can see the scars. Maybe there's less due to them being there.....but there's a lot of scars for it being "illegal" and all. Reef damage is intense as well.
I yell at people doing this stuff. I get flipped the bird plenty, keep thinking about using the flare gun and landing a hot one in their boat. You can call complaints in. My concern is more the longer term damage and how much management usage we can do without harming it. Hurricanes and other natural things can tear up a seagrass bed or macro algae bethos, Mangroves etc. But these ecosystems reduce the damage on shore. This makes them worth a lot more in reduced insurance and nicer eco tourism location. Better fishing.

I'm not sure what to do about the poor manatee though. Hard to spot one while doing 30-40 knots and turn quick to avoid hitting them. Sonar can help spot stuff at lower speeds.
Tagged and beapers placed on them and yet another device for boating in Manatee water? Not sure this is the answer either. Closing some regions to boating is not going to go over too well.

 

[billsreef]

keep thinking about using the flare gun and landing a hot one in their boat.

I can certainly understand that, and have to admit to fighting that temptation myself on few occasions

Our DEC has seen a lot of cuts as well. Though it seems to be mostly effecting programs clam stocking and research, although those are typically funded by sources that can not legally be touched for anything else. I know of one 2 million dollar grant that is about to revert back to the feds because they refuse to administer it, claiming administrative costs...despite the fact they would get to take a sizable chunk of that grant to cover those costs

BTW, does bringing this up mean you've gone back to Fl or just keeping tabs on your old stomping grounds?

 

[Plantbrain]

BTW, does bringing this up mean you've gone back to Fl or just keeping tabs on your old stomping grounds?

I hear ya on the grant stuff, we have the same old same old here.

Nope, I'm out in CA for the most part, I'm a more aquatic weed person, but we have invasive marine algae here and have one of the few successful rapid response programs for that. Some Spartina stuff. I'm in Lake Tahoe, a few degrees cooler than the FL Keys They have watches and control for Asian Clam, Quag and zebra mussels. Boaters are the vector.

Invasive inverts and the weeds get into these systems and pull up all the PO4 and N out of the sediment and transform trophic levels and pump it into the water column.

I suppose some rhizoidal macros do this as well, and seagrass certainly does.
Particularly when it dies off or is damaged and killed. All that PO4 enters the water column.

Many of these systems are pretty resilient if left alone and/or managed well.
I'm not sure the Keys will have the same ability, too many agencies and groups, harder to manage and much larger region to cover.

Good luck.

 

[billsreef]

Some Spartina stuff.

Ironic. Over your way, it's an invasive species doing all too well. Yet in it's native North East over here, it's having troubles in many areas.

 

[Plantbrain]

Same is true in China where they are trying to get aquatic plants to grow in lakes(Potamogeton crispus) for restoration, but we are trying to kill and eradicate it in the USA. Paradoxically, both approaches compliment each other in understanding the biology and management of the exotic weed and native species.

One man's poison is another man gold.