This was an eye opener

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Global Warming or what it is called these days "Climate Change" is simply a political thing, not a scientific one. There is data showing that the earth has been cooling for quite some time now and more and more scientists have been moving away from the not existent consensous on global warming. Global Warming is simply a way for the democrats to gain power and pass legislation that is used to control what we can and can't do. People can be so ignorant when it comes to global warming and believing everything Al Gore says because he made a movie. The polar bears are not dying in fact there has been substantial increases in polar bear populations. Ask yourself this question regarding global warming and wether it is a political or scientific thing. Why was a veteran EPA scientist's paper regarding the non-existent relationship between global warming and C02 gas covered up so that this ridiculous Cap and Trade legislation could be passed? Before becoming one of the zombies that follow the global warming hoax, research for yourself and hopefully you will realize that there is no validity behind it and if the legislation behind global warming is passed, YOU WILL PAY MORE IN TAXES, ENERGY, and ANYTHING ELSE THEY SAY!
 
Got to keep the politics out of the discussion. Despite some peoples perceptions, "global warming", "climate change" or whatever you choose to call it, it is scientifically observable...not a political happening, though it does get politicized unfortunately.

BTW I've been following the science (not the press or politics) on this subject since the early 80's. The data only gets more conclusive, not less.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15294707#post15294707 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Joshsmit56001
Global Warming or what it is called these days "Climate Change" is simply a political thing, not a scientific one. There is data showing that the earth has been cooling for quite some time now and more and more scientists have been moving away from the not existent consensous on global warming. Global Warming is simply a way for the democrats to gain power and pass legislation that is used to control what we can and can't do. People can be so ignorant when it comes to global warming and believing everything Al Gore says because he made a movie. The polar bears are not dying in fact there has been substantial increases in polar bear populations. Ask yourself this question regarding global warming and wether it is a political or scientific thing. Why was a veteran EPA scientist's paper regarding the non-existent relationship between global warming and C02 gas covered up so that this ridiculous Cap and Trade legislation could be passed? Before becoming one of the zombies that follow the global warming hoax, research for yourself and hopefully you will realize that there is no validity behind it and if the legislation behind global warming is passed, YOU WILL PAY MORE IN TAXES, ENERGY, and ANYTHING ELSE THEY SAY!
Somebody has been listening to Limbaugh :lol: . Ditto bots.

Your occupation line (Unemployed Since Obama's Inauguration, Ironic Aint It), is not irony. Your job was destroyed after 8 years of mismanagement and you blame it on the new guy. If you can't even understand BASIC cause and effect, how do you hope to understand global warming?
 
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There is data showing that the earth has been cooling for quite some time now
Please show us a modern, statistically significant, global cooling trend on a timescale that is relevant to humans (i.e. ~5000 years or less).

more and more scientists have been moving away from the not existent consensous on global warming.
Please list a few of the climate scientists publishing papers that contradict the consensus that global warming is influenced by humans. I can't think of any. What they believe personally is immaterial as science is about the evidence you can present for peer review, not your opinions. 30,000 scientists could all agree that the sun rises in the North, but it would make no difference where the sun rises or the evidence showing such.

Why was a veteran EPA scientist's paper regarding the non-existent relationship between global warming and C02 gas covered up so that this ridiculous Cap and Trade legislation could be passed?
Puh-lease. Read the "suppressed" paper and it's pretty clear why the EPA didn't publish it. It is largely plagiarized from blog posts and cites very few peer-reviewed papers. The few that are cited are from journals not listed by the ISI (a listing of scholarly journals- as opposed to trade journals). There's nothing new in it. It's just a rehash of long-debunked denialism.

Before becoming one of the zombies that follow the global warming hoax, research for yourself and hopefully you will realize that there is no validity behind it
Funny thing is, rather than being a zombie that follows blogs and mass media coverage, I have been following the debate in the scientific literature for about 20 years now (plus reading about 150 yrs worth of background on the subject) and I have come to exactly the opposite conclusion. I really do wish more people would research for themselves though so easily disproven memes like "warming stopped in 1998," "it's the sun," and "volcanoes produce more CO2 than humans" could be put to rest for good and the discussion could move on to meaningful discussions about real uncertainties and what can and should be done to fix the problem. The public discussion is about 40 years behind the science now since people don't research for themselves.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15297206#post15297206 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by HippieSmell
Somebody has been listening to Limbaugh :lol: . Ditto bots.

Your occupation line (Unemployed Since Obama's Inauguration, Ironic Aint It), is not irony. Your job was destroyed after 8 years of mismanagement and you blame it on the new guy. If you can't even understand BASIC cause and effect, how do you hope to understand global warming?

I was merely stating how ironic it was that when the new president took over, my job was eliminated. The child Obama can blame the "last 8 years of mismanagement" on why there is no upturn yet in the economy but it is now his admin and his economy. He could have actually done something about the economy but instead decided to go political route instead of cutting taxes for everyone and providing true stimulus to the economy.

plimerfig3.png


This image shows the relationship between temperature of the earth and the economic boom AKA C02 gas increase during the last century. As you can see during the post world war II economic boom, the earths temperature was decreasing. Under the global warming theorists views, earth temperatures should have increased during this time due to the increased abundance of C02 in the atmosphere. Then during the economic down turn in the Carter years, the earths tempature began to increase even though C02 gas should have been less abundant due to the economic downturn. It is always one thing or another for the global warming theorists. In the 70's we were in trouble because of the oncoming ice age which never happened. Now we are in trouble because of global warming even though like I said before the earths temperature has been decreasing since the late 90's. Below is a graph to show you this.
great-global-warming-blunder-pdo-2000-2008-5monavg.jpg


Read these articles

http://www.freshconservative.com/Fr...arming_Consensus_Collapses,_Vote_Looming.html

http://www.dakotavoice.com/2009/06/global-warming-consensus-gone-up-in-flames/

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124597505076157449.html

http://www.climatedepot.com/a/429/F...stify-Alongside-Gore-At-Congressional-Hearing

http://www.viddler.com/explore/micheleforan/videos/2/

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/july2008/071808_conclusively_debunked.htm

THERE IS NO CONSENSOUS ON GLOBAL WARMING!!!!

By the way, people who listen to conservative talk radio are far more informed on issues than others! The US mass media is untrustworthy on any subject because of their infatuation with this president and their leftward agenda
 
Last time...Keep the politics out of the discussion.
 
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thanks bill this has been driving me crazy.

at least, their should be an area where politacaly inclined people can discuss, and the OTHERS can stay here, without those kinds of disruptions

then all we would be dealing with are a holes like me. lol
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15298454#post15298454 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Joshsmit56001


Read these articles

http://www.freshconservative.com/Fr...arming_Consensus_Collapses,_Vote_Looming.html

http://www.dakotavoice.com/2009/06/global-warming-consensus-gone-up-in-flames/

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124597505076157449.html

http://www.climatedepot.com/a/429/F...stify-Alongside-Gore-At-Congressional-Hearing

http://www.viddler.com/explore/micheleforan/videos/2/

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/july2008/071808_conclusively_debunked.htm

THERE IS NO CONSENSOUS ON GLOBAL WARMING!!!!

By the way, people who listen to conservative talk radio are far more informed on issues than others! The US mass media is untrustworthy on any subject because of their infatuation with this president and their leftward agenda

I will do my best to avoid being political... all of those posts are from propoganda sites. None of them are considered science... this is not peer reviewed science. You can find an article with someone advocating nearly anything, from the earth is flat to the zombie apocolpyse is eminent.

There is no popular consensus on global warming and anthro-climate change. There is however a vast majority of evidence supporting one side more than another.

On listening to right wing radio being more informed... if you believe the popular press is biased, does it make sense to take all your information from another biased source? Would it not make more sense to listen to both sides and make your own judgments?
 
I am merely trying to state that there is not enough valid information to support such a drastic change in legislation and lifestyles. The global warming crowd wants to change the way we live from driving cars to heating our homes to simple electrical usage. It has once again become the way of the global warming apocalypse crowd to deny the findings of several hundred scientists and try to hush the opposition to non-existence. The day will come when the truth will prevail and we will all be able to say I told you so! So all of the believers out there put your full trust in Al Gore even though he has no clue what he is talking about, drive around in your golf carts, and be the first to turn off your electricity in the name of this ficticious global warming joke science.

Jenglish - I do follow all media including fox news, MSNBC, CNN, and yes Rush Limbaugh. I am not a mind numbed robot who knows nothing of what he speaks of. I research a subject before commenting on it. Yes I do believe the main stream media is biased and I do believe that majority of the opposition to global warming covered up and not reported on by the mainstream media. People do not realize how much biase is in the media and how things are reported. News is not news anymore, it is simply an agenda to tell the world what they think they should hear, not what the truth is. Think about this, General Electric is a large investor in so called green technology but what most people do not know is that MSNBC is owned by General Electric so of course they want everyone to think that global warming is going to kill them so they can profit from windmill generators. All I gotta say about that is follow the money! This will always lead you to the truth.

By the way, it is impossible to talk about global warming without mentioning the political ramifications associated with it. If you want the truth about where global warming will lead, read the legislation passed by house on Cap and Trade. If you like your freedom and liberty you will be floored by what you read!
 
So your view is that CNN is vastly biased but FOX and Limbaugh are telling the unbiased truth? I won't deny everyone has a bias, but are you looking to another biased source and taking what they say as gospel truth? All news has some bias, but by accepting one side's side as the truth and calling anyone that agrees with the other side's bias essentially ignorant (I know you did not use that word, but that's what it seems you are implying) it comes across as hypocritical.

Now besides looking at sources, do you not think that the trail of money leads to both camps? There is tremendous costs to companies if there are carbon offsetting legislation, I would think that these companies probably spend quite a bit on lobbying groups as well.

As for global warming being junk science... pick up a peer reviewed climatology journal. You don't have to view the evidence as conclusive, but there certainly is a lot of it. Must be one huge conspiracy :)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15299814#post15299814 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jenglish
So your view is that CNN is vastly biased but FOX and Limbaugh are telling the unbiased truth? I won't deny everyone has a bias, but are you looking to another biased source and taking what they say as gospel truth? All news has some bias, but by accepting one side's side as the truth and calling anyone that agrees with the other side's bias essentially ignorant (I know you did not use that word, but that's what it seems you are implying) it comes across as hypocritical.

Now besides looking at sources, do you not think that the trail of money leads to both camps? There is tremendous costs to companies if there are carbon offsetting legislation, I would think that these companies probably spend quite a bit on lobbying groups as well.

As for global warming being junk science... pick up a peer reviewed climatology journal. You don't have to view the evidence as conclusive, but there certainly is a lot of it. Must be one huge conspiracy :)

I agree with you that everyone has a bias but MSNBC, CNN, and ABC are completely out of their minds. Let me give you this little tidbit of info.

I beieive it was a week or two ago that ABC news aired an "infomercial" promoting government run healthcare. No opinions of the opposition were aloud in the "infomercial" and the really messed up part is that no commercials opposing government run health care were aloud to run during this show. If that is not blatantly obvious of the bias of at least ABC news than I do not know how to show you another way. Another thing is that the same week ABC news broadcast their news from directly inside the whitehouse. Do you think that Fox News would be aloud the same? I think not.

I will leave the conversation at this. It seems that I am the only dissenting voice in this discussion on global warming and everything that has been discussed so I will merely say that it is pointless to argue with everyone by my self.
 
The balance of posters on the issue depends on the day ;) It can be skewed the other direction. I think that MSNBC has become as skewed as FOX is and that ABC showed a lack of journalistic integrity, but I don't think FOX has been "fair and balanced" in a long time. I would classify them as "completely out of their minds." They are the ones that seem to just make things up without justification to support their viewpoint.

good discussion none the less and we didn't even manage to get locked ;)
 
As you can see during the post world war II economic boom, the earths temperature was decreasing. Under the global warming theorists views, earth temperatures should have increased during this time due to the increased abundance of C02 in the atmosphere.
No. You're being willfully ignorant here and pretending that CO2 is the only driver of climate when scientists know that it's not. It's also no secret that there was a downturn in temp during the post-war boom, nor is that downturn a mystery. It's been widely known for some time that it was due to sulfate aerosols- which was the reason that a few scientists in the 1970s predicted continued cooling. After we started scrubbing them from factory emissions and switching to low-sulfur fuels, their influence went away and the warming trend dominated.

Then during the economic down turn in the Carter years, the earths tempature began to increase even though C02 gas should have been less abundant due to the economic downturn.
The climate does not respond instantaneously to any changes, especially to very short-term trends. You would not expect to see a 4 year trend in emissions have a noticeable effect on such a noisy dataset. Even if we completely stopped emitting all CO2 today the climate would continue to get warmer for several decades. That's such an important concept that it has its own term- climate inertia.

In the 70's we were in trouble because of the oncoming ice age which never happened.
Look at the actual peer-reviewed literature and see what scientists were saying in the 1970s. There were a whopping 6 academic papers projecting cooling and 35 projecting warming. 5 of those cooling papers based their projection on assumptions that sulfate aerosols (the cause of the not-so-mysterious post-war downward trend) would continue to be produced in abundance.

So what's all of this talk about not trusting the mass media portrayal of issues and researching them yourself?

I said before the earths temperature has been decreasing since the late 90's. Below is a graph to show you this.
The graph has nothing to do with showing global temperature trends. It's a graph of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation which is basically the switch between warm and cool surface waters in the N. Pacific. It's sort of like El Nino, but longer lasting and affecting larger parts of the ocean. It can affect climate, but there is no indication as of yet that it has any directed response from climate change (i.e. that can be used as a thermometer).

The global temperature has not been decreasing since the late 1990s. There is no statistically significant trend in the data, so you can't say ANYTHING meaningful about what the temperature has done since then. However, even if you cherrypick the anomalously hot year of 1998 as your starting point (so all other points are lower), GISS shows an upward trend. HadCRUT shows virtually no change, and UAH gives a slight downward trend. If you look at the most recent 10 years for all 3 datasets you get an increasing trend (still not statistically significant),
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15302450#post15302450 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by greenbean36191
It's also no secret that there was a downturn in temp during the post-war boom, nor is that downturn a mystery. It's been widely known for some time that it was due to sulfate aerosols- which was the reason that a few scientists in the 1970s predicted continued cooling. After we started scrubbing them from factory emissions and switching to low-sulfur fuels, their influence went away and the warming trend dominated.
When did "we" start removing sulfate from factory emissions? Was it just the U.S. that did this or worldwide?
 
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I live about 25 miles from the Gulf of Mexico and my yard elevation is approximately 12 NGVD (12 feet above mean sea level).

The evidence that the climate is cyclical is in my yard. Fossil shells. Now, how did they get there unless the sea level was at least 13 feet higher at some point in the past indicating much warmer climate.

Now, a good friend of mine is an avid fossil hunter. She has found several mammoth teeth in about 20 feet of water several miles off of the coast of Venice (Florida). That tells me that at some point in the Earth's past, the water table was significantly lower, indicating much colder climate.

So, how did man cause both of these episodes?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15299743#post15299743 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Joshsmit56001
By the way, it is impossible to talk about global warming without mentioning the political ramifications associated with it.

It is quite possible to talk about the science and leave the politics out of the discussion. While many might want to bring the politics into such discussions, that is a violation of our [ua], so leaving the politics out is necessary. There are other forums on the net that you can discuss the political issues, just not here on RC ;)

BTW if you take the time to notice, those of in this thread that believe in anthropogenic global warming have done so from reading the scientific literature, not the popular press ;) Heck, I was convinced long before anyone even heard of Al Gore, so I don't even know why anyone bothers bringing up his name when the idea is to try and discuss science instead of pop media figures :lol:
 
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