To quarantine or not

[woodnaquanut]

ttm preceded by a formalin bath

You can also use PraziPro during TTM. ( I know snorvich knows this, just saying it for those new to QT)

This thread is, to some extent, getting silly. Horseplay is dead set against TTM and no amount of logic will dissuade him (?) from that. A perfectly good protocol incorrectly followed will tell you nothing about the efficacy of the protocol. For the reported failures of TTM there is absolutely no way to tell if the protocol was followed.

 

[friartuuk]

ttm preceded by a formalin bath

Thanks Steve. Is there a formalin-based product on the market you'd recommend? What procedures do you follow for the bath?

 

[ThRoewer]

Thanks Steve. Is there a formalin-based product on the market you'd recommend? What procedures do you follow for the bath?

Formalin MS from FishVet. Just follow the instructions on the bottle for a short term bath: 20 drops (= 1ml) per gallon over 45 to 50 minutes. Make sure to provide good aeration as formalin binds oxygen.

 

[friartuuk]

Formalin MS from FishVet. Just follow the instructions on the bottle for a short term bath: 20 drops (= 1ml) per gallon over 45 to 50 minutes. Make sure to provide good aeration as formalin binds oxygen.

Thanks ThRoewer I'll get some!

 

[friartuuk]

I'm having a hard time sourcing Formalin MS. I'm in Canada but will be traveling over the border in a couple of weeks. Any suggestions for an online retailer? I've tried all the main ones that I know of and have emailed FishVet to see if they can recommend someone.

If I can't get any, has anyone tried SeaChem Paraguard? It's described as "the only fish and filter safe aldehyde based... parasite control product available" I'm especially interested in any experiences with wrasses.

 

[Deinonych]

Pet Solutions appears to have Formalin-MS back in stock. Can't speak to the effectiveness of Paraguard, although it appears to be similar to Formalin.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2572116

 

[EthanHawaii]

I don't quarantine anything, this is because my LFS will hold any fish or coral I want for however long Is needed before I buy them, so it is like they quarantine all the fish and coral before I buy them, and if needed they will treat any of my fish for free, but they only treat with copper which doesn't always work on every kind of fish disease and the copper would kill coral.

It is really usefull to have a QT but I personally don't want more work.
I have had problems with not quarantining everything but it is too minor for me to invest in a QT. JMO.

 

[snorvich]

I don't quarantine anything, this is because my LFS will hold any fish or coral I want for however long Is needed before I buy them, so it is like they quarantine all the fish and coral before I buy them, and if needed they will treat any of my fish for free, but they only treat with copper which doesn't always work on every kind of fish disease and the copper would kill coral.

It is really usefull to have a QT but I personally don't want more work.
I have had problems with not quarantining everything but it is too minor for me to invest in a QT. JMO.

The longer a fish is at the LFS, the higher the probability it will contract a parasite or other problem. No LFS properly quarantines fish.

 

[ThRoewer]

The longer a fish is at the LFS, the higher the probability it will contract a parasite or other problem. No LFS properly quarantines fish.

Yep, get them out of those parasite incubators LFS call fish and invert systems.
Every new arrival may have something new and is always eager to share it with all his new friends...

 

[Dmorty217]

I don't quarantine anything, this is because my LFS will hold any fish or coral I want for however long Is needed before I buy them, so it is like they quarantine all the fish and coral before I buy them, and if needed they will treat any of my fish for free, but they only treat with copper which doesn't always work on every kind of fish disease and the copper would kill coral.

It is really usefull to have a QT but I personally don't want more work.
I have had problems with not quarantining everything but it is too minor for me to invest in a QT. JMO.

This WILL end badly for you, maybe not with the next purchase but a purchase in the future will bring something into the tank you lose fish from. The more fish you have in your system the bigger the risk (financially and emotionally) you take. Lose a few thousand dollars in fish and I promise you it will be a sombering experience and may cause you to reconsider your own QT

 

[biggie smalls]

Well, where you asked if having a good healthy tank helps:

It really won't. Quarantining is done before the fish even comes near the tank, and anything bad that has happened to it before you brought it home (ie in shipping, in the store, etc) would mean that having a healthy tank won't do anything for it. Your tank will quickly become unhealthy.

IMO, quarantine everything.

 

[microlady]

I certainly understand the theory behind fallowing for 72 days, TTM and quarantine etc but in reality it is very difficult to execute or execute correctly in a hobbyist home. So I have never quarantined. I put fish in an observation tank for a couple of days and they go into the DT. Of course I will not put a visible sick fish in the DT. There are quite a few occasions when the new fish developed ich symptons a few days after introduced into the DT but it was never fatal. They just recovered after a week or two. I have never seen the existing inhabitants affected nor have lost a single fish due to ich. I think it's because 1. the tank stress level is very low. 2. The existing fish are very healthy.

Just keep the record straight I did lose a powder brown tang a few years back when I first started for mysterious reasons a few weeks after introducing into the DT but that's before I know better.

I played it this way for years until I had a massive outbreak of either velvet or Brooklynella last year. These fish came from the Diver's Den.

 

[snorvich]

Not quarantining is like playing Russian Roulette. No one ever wins, some just get to play longer.

 

[friartuuk]

I just moved a Carpenter's flasher wrasse the second time. He was pretty stressed the first time but that's probably my fault. It took me too long to catch him and although I floated him, there was a problem with the heater and the tank was too warm (84F). However, after leaving him in the dark for a day and a half, he was eating well. Today is the third day and I moved him back to the first tank (after cleaning everything thoroughly). This time the transfer worked much better. I caught him with an ice cream bucket and there seemed to be much less stress.

The problem is, I have to leave town from Sunday until Friday. I'm wondering if it would be best to transfer him a third time and hope that he's all clear or wait until I get back and start over again.

 

[photoblepharon]

most, if not all, public Aquariums and zoos still use copper. what you are getting here is opinion from hobbyists. Right or wrong, imo, TTM is most appropriate for us; and it has never failed me.

Have you polled all public aquariums and zoos to determine this information?

 

[CHSUB]

Have you polled all public aquariums and zoos to determine this information?

not all of them, but more than a couple. my friend has worked at a few public zoos and aquariums and he has said they all do. he is running the new Frost Museum, reef and fish tanks, in Miami; they will have many thousands of gallons of water. his qt process is quite involved.

not sure if your question is rhetorical or "smart" in nature, but if an industry pro tells me "they all qt and use copper"; i would believe him. have you polled all public aquariums and zoos to determine what they do?

 

[photoblepharon]

Then it would be more accurate to say that the few public aquaria your friend has worked at have used copper, but not accurate to say "most, if not all" public aquaria do so. Chloroquine is also widely used; hyposalinity and tank transfer are used too but probably not as frequently.

The notion that public aquariums don't do this because they're "behind" demonstrates an imperfect understanding of the scales involved. Maybe some are stuck in 1990, but others can't practically do it. It's not always feasible to set up duplicate 2000 gallon systems for a huge group of fish and spend all the time moving that many fish around every 3 days, and the costs of sterilizing the system repeatedly and refilling them with saltwater would be huge.

 

[kmbyrnes]

Not quarantining is like playing Russian Roulette. No one ever wins, some just get to play longer.

This is only a question for those who have not yet lost.
WHEN, not if, it happens to you, quarantine will become your religion.

 

[OrionN]

not all of them, but more than a couple. my friend has worked at a few public zoos and aquariums and he has said they all do. he is running the new Frost Museum, reef and fish tanks, in Miami; they will have many thousands of gallons of water. his qt process is quite involved.

not sure if your question is rhetorical or "smart" in nature, but if an industry pro tells me "they all qt and use copper"; i would believe him. have you polled all public aquariums and zoos to determine what they do?

I think Public Aquarium keepers and private reefers/aquarium keepers are two separate population of fish/coral keepers. Each with their own set of problems that, while have some common, are different from each other. The smaller displays of public aquariums resemble our larger systems but the majority of the displays at public aquarium are ginormous in private reefers/aquarium keepers term. What they need to do is not necessary what we need to do.

Do what they do is not going to work. Regardless, we better find something that works. Let the LFS QT for free for us and take them at their word is a disaster waiting to happen, and it will happen sooner or later.

 

[Dmorty217]

This is only a question for those who have not yet lost.
WHEN, not if, it happens to you, quarantine will become your religion.

Yep, it's only a matter of time. After you have amassed a nice fish collection and add "just one more" that has velvet without QTing, it will make you want to quit the hobby when you watch all the time and money you have spent be taken away in a few days... Most never recover from this and leave the hobby... Hence why the average lifespan for hobbiest is 3 yrs in Marine fish keeping. Your the vet in this situation so you either educate yourself and QT, or watch your fish die because you were too lazy to QT