Today's Rant on Quarantining

[adoptaspork]

there's a reef store near me that quarantines everything before selling, and it's always very refreshing to walk in and see that all of the fish look perfectly happy and healthy on the sales floor. other stores, you can walk in and just see the disease. :/

 

[ca1ore]

Every business transfers the cost of business to the customer. It called pricing.
Is a cook-your-own pizza transferring the cost of cooking to the customer?

Hah, yes, exactly right. Avast Marine, for example, offers two versions of some of their more popular items - one that they assemble, one that the buyer assembles. The latter costs less than the former. I think it is a terrific idea, and see nothing wrong with 'transferring cost to the consumer'.

I also hate buying where costs are allocated to the item for things I don't want. A LFS near me does offer QT-as-a-service but since I want to QT all fish I buy myself, I don't avail myself of the service - and would object mightily if it were included in the cost of all the fish they sell.

Peter's right as well, what 'guarantee' would one expect from a QT'd fish, and how would one determine that the incidence of a disease was due to ineffective QT or a previously existing condition in the buyer's tank. The more one actually thinks about it, the less sense it really makes.

 

[shred5]

there's a reef store near me that quarantines everything before selling, and it's always very refreshing to walk in and see that all of the fish look perfectly happy and healthy on the sales floor. other stores, you can walk in and just see the disease. :/

That would be nice. Some of the stores around us are horrid. You will see 20 yellow tangs in a small aquarium all with shrunk stomachs. 15 mandarin gobies in the same tank all starved. .I have seen mag anemones in tank with regular fluorescent lighting. I go into some of these stores and go what are you doing?

I remember the days all Saltwater fish were kept in tanks that contained copper. You had to make sure none of that stuff made it in your reef.

 

[snorvich]

Adequate quarantine by seller just is not going to happen. Each aquarist can decide on their own what their own policy should be. The vast majority of folks that I see on here are looking for lowest cost.

 

[billsreef]

Its not the cost, but the principle that bugs me. WHY do I need to QT? If I pay for a coral / fish, I expect to receive a healthy specimen. I expect the LFS to QT their livestock and deliver a great product for my money.

All the arguments for QT can be summed up in two words "Old fashion". People are resistance to change. This is one of the slowest industry when it comes to innovation and process change. If we all demand more from our LFS, they will have to improve. Instead, we create excuses for them on why they can't QT. If there IS a LFS that can guarantee their QT process, people would pay for it.

How much are you willing to pay for a green chromis or yellow tang?

 

[billsreef]

there's a reef store near me that quarantines everything before selling, and it's always very refreshing to walk in and see that all of the fish look perfectly happy and healthy on the sales floor. other stores, you can walk in and just see the disease. :/

How long do they QT, and is it done in a completely different system in a separate room?

 

[adoptaspork]

They've got a few different systems set up in the store to keep things separate, including the QT, and I believe it is a 4 week QT in the back, which seems to be long enough to catch most of the common illnesses and provide quality control while still functioning as a fish store. I've gotten one fish from them and QT'd it myself on top of it just to make sure (trust issues with everyone...), and it was probably the healthiest fish I've ever bought. The guy who owns the small store runs it for the most part so I think it's one of those situations where it's his passion and he takes great pride in the entire experience provided. Prices can sometimes be a bit high compared to other shops, but I don't even mind. As has been mentioned before, it's expected that the cost and loss of efficiency will be offloaded onto the consumer...which isn't unfair when you're paying for convenience.

 

[snorvich]

They've got a few different systems set up in the store to keep things separate, including the QT, and I believe it is a 4 week QT in the back, which seems to be long enough to catch most of the common illnesses

Sorry, but that store's process is not likely to be effective. Most is simply not sufficient. If it is not all, it is not of much value.

 

[scooter86]

For hobbyists that say they have been in the hobby for years and have had minimal problems , I would offer this analogy. I have walked across the street thousands of times in my life and have never been hit by a car. It doesn't mean that it is safe thing to do, and it doesn't mean that I shouldn't look both ways before I walk. If I'm not careful, sooner or later I will become a casualty. And so I continue to be careful, look both ways and always Quarantine.

 

[ghellin]

To take this a step further. Once I started Qt'ing and doing the TT method I really slowed down and deeply focused on the husbandry of my tank and the inhabitants I chose to add. I now save money by buying specific fish that serve a purpose and adding them slowly to my tank, rather than impulse buying and dropping in whatever was cheap and looked cool at the time. I have learned a great deal and have not looked back. Big holiday sales where LFS nearly give fish away have become a pet peeve as I then see all the posts in the local forums about fish fighting, fish diseases, fish dying, etc, due to uneducated people impulse buying cheap fish with no knowledge of the critter they are purchasing. I am glad I started QT, and anyone I know that does QT religiously seems to have a more knowledge of their systems.

 

[ali1]

^ I've ran into the exact scenario.

 

[adoptaspork]

Sorry, but that store's process is not likely to be effective. Most is simply not sufficient. If it is not all, it is not of much value.

I see and agree with what you're saying - if everything isn't definitively eradicated, then the purchaser still has to go through their own process and thus to some people that negates the worth of quarantining at a store since there isn't 100% peace-of-mind. I feel that if quarantine could become common practice commercially, the amount of time could be reasonably stretched out as the "norm" so that it could be more thorough.

I know it's just personal opinion, but I would way rather at least purchase a fish that had been quarantined for a month asymptomatically (or an illness caught and dealt with before hitting the sales floor) than one from a system with a ton of fish with zero quarantine at all. At least there's *some* semblance of quality control and the fish in the store look healthier than at other stores so that at least you start off with something that isn't already half dead. Did I still quarantine it at home? Yes. I used to work at a shop that sold fish with no quarantine policy for incoming shipments, though, and there were situations that could have been mediated by even a few weeks of observation (or...errrr...any...at all...besides a once-over before it's released into the system...lol) before a sick or infected fish hit the floor and wreaked havoc on all of the things. Not to mention it looks bad to the people shopping at the store...and then the employees get blamed for a policy that they have no control over. That was a major factor in my decision to quit, so I appreciate any effort for quality control.

 

[FirstContact]

Lots of open minded opinions. Reads like some appreciate extra efforts made by LFSs or on line vendors. Maybe the industry could stand to have some mandatory, regulatory protocols for the benefit of all. Also reads like other people are willing and do pay more at businesses that go a little further.

 

[snorvich]

L Maybe the industry could stand to have some mandatory, regulatory protocols for the benefit of all.

That would basically kill the industry. Most LFS are barely surviving now if at all.

 

[ca1ore]

Also reads like other people are willing and do pay more at businesses that go a little further.

Of course there will be folks willing to pay for a QT service, but are there enough to make it worthwhile for the LFS to do so? Certainly not as regular practice, but perhaps as a for-pay service. Though, that the vast majority of LFS don't (in an industry 'desperate' for new sources of revenue) speaks volumes.

 

[shred5]

What I think the real issue is LFS just dont have the room or the staff for quarantine. Most by me are small and trying to fill every inch.

 

[Newstead]

My first reef venture (biocube 14) was taken over by aiptasia which killed all my corals but a frogspawn. After using Aiptasia X, lemon juice, boiling water, etc. and watching them continue to spread, I gave up and removed all the live rock one by one, dried them out, scrubbed them, etc. When that tank sprang a leak after 3 years, we replaced it with a bio29 and bought a fluval spec 5 as a QT. Best 70 dollars ever spent, and much cheaper than replacing all the live rock and corals. Sure enough, bought a green mushroom that looked fine but after 2 weeks in the QT I found a tiny aiptasia growing on the plug. So the Fluval has already paid for itself.

 

[thedon986]

A store near me offers QT for something like $10 extra. I do not have space for a QT where I live and I'm not lying (650 sq. ft.). A 5 gallon bucket on the floor for 4 weeks would take up too much space and wouldn't fly with the fiance. I'm lucky I squeezed in my pico before we ran out of space.

 

[jimmyj7090]

A store can claim to "QT" all they want but what does that mean? Does the clock reset every time a weekly fish order comes in, or do they keep a half dozen seperate QT systems?

If the market would support it ($$) then LFSs could find the space and staff to do it right. The question is; Are you ready to pay the $75 for a green chromis, or $175 for a yellow tang? If the answer is no, then the market (you) won't support a real, effective QT process on the supply end. Supply and demand, everyone would happily pay normal retail for properly QT'd fish, but virtally no one would be willing to pay the price that would actually need to be charged.

 

[snorvich]

A store can claim to "QT" all they want but what does that mean? Does the clock reset every time a weekly fish order comes in, or do they keep a half dozen seperate QT systems?

If the market would support it ($$) then LFSs could find the space and staff to do it right. The question is; Are you ready to pay the $75 for a green chromis, or $175 for a yellow tang? If the answer is no, then the market (you) won't support a real, effective QT process on the supply end. Supply and demand, everyone would happily pay normal retail for properly QT'd fish, but virtally no one would be willing to pay the price that would actually need to be charged.

While I might quibble slightly with the imputed prices, i agree with the general statement above. There is no way the vast majority of folks in this marketplace would support it. First thing would happen would be price competition between those who quarantine and those who don't. And we know where that would go . . .