Treating with Vitamin C

[Pufferpunk]

What size tank?

 

[studmaster]

What size tank?

wow, sorry....50gal.

I'll reply to the other posts later today.

 

[studmaster]

Stud......

How about placing an airstone in there for a few days (be carefull not splash all over your lights and other stuff..) the only quick problem I see with that is if your place (house,etc) is really tight than surrounding atmos. CO2 (we're in middle of the heating season and CO2 can be high) will perhaps over ride this....,but none the less try it !!!

I have just started VC dosing with rate @ 2.5 PPM for 1 week and for the past 11 days @ 5.00 PPM... and the tank is cystal clear with no real issues with pH as I run an EV-120 skimmer which adds tons of air and kicks out some serious junk......

As far as your issues with PO4 when you get your sump up and running, Cheato by it's self willn't remove all PO4... so as soon as you have the exrta $$$ get yourself a Phos Reactor fill it a good PO4 removing media and say good bye to PO4...IMO...

Oh ya take some photos to sure share with us...:rollface::rollface:

Dick

I ended up placing a maji jet 1200 in the 50g tank and pointing it towards the surface. This combined with not dosing VC for a day raised the PH back up. I think I was over dosing VC. I'm going to reduce it and watch the PH very closely. Because the VC was buffered it didn't have a direct effect on my PH, but the resulting bacteria seemed to.

 

[studmaster]

Hi Jeff! :wave:

saltydog64, I think you are/were on the right track!

Studmaster, I have a few questions for you. Do you have any pics of your setup? What type of skimmer are you running and what are your tank specs. Do you use RO water?

I'm running a AquaC Remora HOB skimmer. I don't have sump currently, when I get my stand rebuilt, I'll be putting one in and once I can afford it, I'll get a bigger Protein Skimmer. I don't use RO water....this is a very expensive hobby and I need to buy equipment piece by piece when I can afford it.

I don't know how much you feed or how large your tank is but a red wiggler looks like it would add quite a bit of nutrients to the water if uneaten. In fact, if you started adding this much food only recently it may explain why your nitrates just recently spiked.

In addition, these worms look like they grow in compost or in a fertilizer rich substance. Any small amount of this will spike nitrates quickly. Also, you will add phosphates. You may want to think double dilution of the worms in water if you plan to continue their feeding.

I remove the red wigglers from the compost and food source, wash them, put them in a container for 2 days, then wash them again before feeding to my puffer. I've left them longer and they don't seem to excrete any more "fertilizer" after that length.

Adding live rock from someone's tank can be dangerous. If you ever purchase live rock locally it should be cooked for a month. That's in a closed heated container with a powerhead and a skimmer. The water should be monitored for nitrates and phosphates and controlled during this time. If not you may add phosphates and nitrates to your tank. 60ppm of nitrates is quite a bit and shouldn't come from solely live rock addition.



This can be slightly misleading. Your nitrates may have disappeared if you had a rampant growth spurt of algae. In fact, with notable algae growth you cannot actually tell if or how much the VC was helping.

True....I'll have to monitor nitrates, phosphates, and PH very closely.

You're correct. Adding VC will promote bacterial growth. If used for energy the carbon dioxide released would cause a drop in pH (however, this will not affect your alkalinity). The way to treat this would be to aerate your water better. You stated you have a HOB skimmer. I haven't seen a model that I would actually recommend for VC dosing.

Alkalinity was through the roof....between 16-17 dKH. Calcium was very high too....but both of those measurements were done after adding limewater to try to increase the PH.

As far as a PS goes, the Remora is one of the better reviewed HOB skimmers, and I definitely notice a difference when dosing VC in the amount of output

Oxygen will not influence your pH. There is no great way to gauge oxygen content in seawater with our available kits. Ideally, better skimmer = more oxygenation.

...but CO2 does influence the PH??? Higher amount of CO2, lower PH??? Now I'm a bit confused.

This may also be misleading. If you stop VC now the newly grown algae will still have influence on your pH. You should measure you pH in the morning and in the evening before the lights turn off.

My recommendations would be to slow down on feeding. Wash the worms in water once and then in a fresh cup of water before feeding. I don't know how large your tank is or how many fish you have in it but you should cut back to feeding the minimal until you can get that refugium installed. I would recommend going with chaeto over any other macroalge for ease of removal (I learned that the hard way).

Your nitrates may be undetectable now because of the algae and the VC additions may not be helping much if your skimmer isn't pulling out the excess bacteria/bacterial byproducts. I would recommend stopping VC for a few weeks while you get the refugium online and get measurements for your tank (nitrates, and phosphates being the two most important). Try calling around to LFS and seeing if anyone has a digital phosphate meter or the Hach low range test kit they would measure your levels for you. During this period try to notice if anything changes in your tank.

HTH!!! :thumbsup:

Yes Chaeto for sure, I've grown it in the past in my DT and works well. I will try all your suggestions, thank you for taking the time to reply.

 

[Pufferpunk]

Don't expect cheato to grow at all, if you are dosing VC. It will disappear totally, w/o a food source.

 

[studmaster]

Don't expect cheato to grow at all, if you are dosing VC. It will disappear totally, w/o a food source.

...and that sounds like a good goal to reach. Theoretically, the need for a sump is a lot less if you dose VC, correct? One of my main compartments was going to be a refuge to house chaeto. If VC does the same things....maybe I shouldn't go through the trouble.

 

[Akwarius]

I am considering vc to reduce nitrates and add vitality to my zoas. I am also running a fuge with chaeto on a reverse cycle to stabilize ph at night. Will removing the nutrients and likewise the chaeto cause a harmful ph swing?

 

[Pufferpunk]

Hasn't for me...

 

[Akwarius]

The only crystalline vit c supplement I could find locally was calcium ascorbate. Has anyone used this slightly different form of vit c with positive effects? Would the dosing be the same? It should be the same right, since its basically just ascorbic acid attached to different mineral salts? Will the calcium break down as available calcium in my water column?

 

[ludnix]

The only crystalline vit c supplement I could find locally was calcium ascorbate. Has anyone used this slightly different form of vit c with positive effects? Would the dosing be the same? It should be the same right, since its basically just ascorbic acid attached to different mineral salts? Will the calcium break down as available calcium in my water column?

It sounds like something worth testing! You could try dissolving it in a glass of sea water and test the water's calcium level.

 

[Akwarius]

I'll run a calcium test on my tank after I dose up to 5ppm vit c. My concern is the potential for causing precipitation or lowering alk. Needless to say, I will be monitoring closely.

 

[ludnix]

Testing it on a gallon of tank water sounds lot less risky if it's a concern for you.

 

[Akwarius]

Ok, Ludnix, here's my analysis:

Control: 50g total water volume frag tank- ph 8.1, dkH 11, CA 480, test kit API

Test: 1g frag tank water with 5ppm or 18.5 mg of calcium ascorbate vigorously mixed for 30 seconds- ph 8.1, dkH 11, CA 500, test kit API

Good enough for me. My biggest concern was the additives effect on the ion balance. The increase in calcium could very well be a deviation in the poor quality of the hobbyist-grade testing equipment. I am by no means a chemist and I encourage anyone with lab grade materials to conduct a further analysis.

 

[Genetics]

...but CO2 does influence the PH??? Higher amount of CO2, lower PH??? Now I'm a bit confused.

Yes, CO2 when in a solution will become H2CO3 (CO2 + H2O) this will disassociate and lower pH. Oxygen on the other hand will not influence pH.

 

[Pufferpunk]

The amount of sodium, calcium or magnesium is minimal & all are fine for dosing. You'll have to make your own chart, considering there may be different amounts of VC in a different product than what I'm using.

 

[Akwarius]

According to Jane Higdon, R.N., Ph.D., LPI Research Associate, in the article "The Bioavailability of Different Forms of Vitamin C",
1,000 mg of sodium ascorbate contains 889 mg of ascorbic acid and 111 mg of sodium...calcium ascorbate provides 114 mg of calcium per 1,000 mg of ascorbic acid."
The bottle of crystallized calcium ascorbate that I am using states 1066 mg vitamin c and 117 mg of calcium per 1/4 teaspoon. Therefore the ratio of vit c to mineral buffer is relatively the same in this case.

 

[saltydog64]

Tank "Cloudy"??

Tank "Cloudy"??

Morning Puff, Jeff...

I awoke this am to a 70 G that is "cloudy"......I used "....." because I'm not 100 % sure it is being caused by VC....I say that as I have two Black 3 Spotted Damsels who like to stir up the bottom just prior to breeding, they have done this many times in the past, but when I look closer I really don't see the tiny particles (bottom detritus, etc...) that I "normally" see after or during when of their egg laying events. Actually I just looked closer and while yes I see some tiny stuff....most of the "cloudyness" is caused by stuff to small to be seen by the unaided eye...also I netted out some " white stringy threads" so I'm thinking Bacteria Bloom.....I'm not ALL that concerned YET....but have a few ???.

First I dosed slowly VC (using VC recommened here) @ a low rate of 2.5 PPM for 5 days, then increased to 5.0 PPM for the last 18 days and all along the tank has been crystal clear. A quick test for Ammonia was negitive and a check of Nitrate ( using a LaMotte kit) this am with a result of NO3= 0.00 PPM...which I like of course, I not sure how to proceed...do I continue to add 5.0 PPM ??? (I didn't add any this AM....and if no what do I do next ?. Is it "normal to have a Bloom this long into the cycle with VC ? I should add that I'm also running a Sulfur Denitrifier but I have used this in the past with no problems and I plan on shutting it down soon and continue with VC as I think this is the way to go as the SR causes to many issues with a constant battle with ALK and pH....I added this note just to be 100 % up front with this experiment...

Thanks you guys for a great thread and your help.:thumbsup:

Dick

 

[Pufferpunk]

Yes, bacterial bloom is what you want to see. What's your skimmer doing?

 

[Genetics]

Yes, bacterial bloom is what you want to see. What's your skimmer doing?

I don't know if I would shoot for a bacterial bloom that is visible but an increase in skimmer productivity is a good sign. Having controlled growth of bacteria is ideal IMHO. As having a visible bloom may suggest large changes in the reef environment.

 

[Pufferpunk]

I've got to wonder--why such a substantial bloom with only a 5ppm dosing? Mine never got cloudy. I did see a lot of brown diatoms at 1st though.