Philly_Reefer
New member
this tank/system looks so massive and huge I love it.
Triple-S Fish Ranch - 1700gal 164†x 48†x 56†SPS peninsula build
- Thread starter pmrogers
- Start date
mahenderinde
New member
This is an amazing build. I look forward to seeing the rest as you move forward. I wish I could play at this scale. I am starting on my first saltwater tank. My family wrapped a 125 gallon reef ready tank under the tree. I am pretty sure it was to provide an obsession to distract me so they can sneak a dog into the house.
I love looking at these huge builds because it is fun to see if I can take the concepts that you have at scale reduce them to my tank.
Thank you for allowing us to live vicariously through your tank build.
Mark
I love looking at these huge builds because it is fun to see if I can take the concepts that you have at scale reduce them to my tank.
Thank you for allowing us to live vicariously through your tank build.
Mark
Last edited:
Loving that scape. I see many tanks these days with lovely looking rock formations but the owner hasn't considered just how much a reef will grow out. I think you've got it spot on , you'll really see the benefit of the sensible amount of rock in a few years time. Reckon you deffo need a yellow acro for big birds head 
Busy holiday period with distractions other than the system followed by 3 weeks of work travel. Only 2 project weekends since the last update, and these, unfortunately, netted out to negative progress on the system overall due to a succession of issues. Display has been filled for 6 weeks now, but due to instability in the QT systems and fish room, I'm still at least a month or two away from being able to add livestock.
Since the last update:
Display Tank Filled
Display tank filled on December 10th. Have used Oceanic salt for most of the last 10 years, but Oceanic quit making it sometime in the last 2 years. Decided to give Kent Marine Reef Salt a try. Considered going back to Instant Ocean, which never gave me any problems in my first 12 years in the hobby, but decided against because of the gray sludge it leaves in the mixing container. Again, never saw any problems from the gray sludge, just got tired of having to clean the 7' tall mixing reservoir every 24 months or so. No residue issues thus far, though I was a little taken aback by the big tank taking 4 weeks to clear after adding the salt. Also don't love that the Kent salt has over 500 calcium.
Currently have a number of unresolved issues:
Apex probe module not working on coral QT
After running okay for 2+ months, the Apex probe module on the coral QT started crashing the Apex web interface. With the probe module connected, all web interface dashboards stop rendering. Even with all probes disconnected from the probe module, same issue. Tried replacing the probe module: no change. Tried re-wiring to shorten the USB wiring run to the probe module, attaching it directly to a power bar instead of to another module: again, no change. Next up: try Neptune tech support.
Noise problems with HyrdoWizard ECM63 and Tunze Streams
The 5 Tunzes running simultaneously create a low hum that can be heard up to 5 feet from the tank. Mildly annoying that they can be heard at all, but not a showstopper.
The Hydro Wizard, on the other hand, makes a higher pitched buzzing sound that cuts right through all the sound deadening and can be heard 30 feet away at the 2nd row sofa in the media area. It sounds like an electric shaver was left running inside a cabinet. While still quieter than any other tank I've heard, the noise really jumps out against the dead silence of the room.
My first thought was that it was the acrylic pump brackets vibrating along their 3' length and in turn exciting the FRP wall of the overflow. Started working on rubber bumpers for the bracket, then thought to try some tests first. Test #1: pinch the sides of the bracket with my hand to prevent/absorb any vibrations. No difference, and I immediately noted that there was no perceptible vibration in the bracket. Test #2: hold the bracket about an inch away from the wall. This also made no difference! Baffling. The noise outside the tank didn't recede until I held the pump and bracket almost a full foot away from the overflow wall. So it would seem that rubber bumpers will not do anything to help my situation.
Not sure what to try next. May just punt and program the powerbeads to not run during prime movie viewing hours.
Movement in Drain Plumbing
Earlier in this thread there were questions about additional support for the FlexPVC drain lines above the sump. At the time, I noted that I wasn't concerned because there was no visible or sensible vibration in the lines at up to 140 gpm during the initial freshwater flow and leak tests.
At that time, I was using a full-siphon 1.5" as part of the drain configuration because the parts for the 2.5" durso pipes had not yet arrived. The 1.5 siphon was taking the vast majority of the flow, which was okay except for the fact that it routed to the side of the sump, bypassing all the filter socks. I decided to switch to the three 2.5" durso pipes for all expected flow and reserve the two 1.5" drains for emergency overflow.
Unfortunately, the turbulence of the durso drains has resulted in the flex pvc lines jumping around violently under flow. I have to dial all the way back to 40 gpm to get remotely acceptable line movement, and even this is not something I'm comfortable with long term.
Next up, rework the plumbing to use a 1.5" full siphon for normal flow, this time routed to the filter sock bay, which in turn means that the 2.5" durso needs to be rerouted.
Remaining Yellow Tangs died
About one week after the last update, the remaining yellow tangs all stopped eating vigorously on day 1, ate nothing at all on day 2, started swimming near the top of the tank on day 3, and all died overnight that night. Ammonia was nonexistent; pH, salinity, and temp were all in range. Oxygen should have been fine between running a large airstone and having one of the largest Jebao poweheads agitating the surface. My best guess nitrites. I don't have a test kit for nitrites, but can't see what else would take out all of the fish in 2 tanks so quickly.
I feel horrible about destroying so many beautiful, healthy fish, and consider this a lesson for rushing into populating the QTs. I now have one fish in each QT and will stay at this until everything is stable for at least 2 months. When I do add to QT, it will be no more than 3 or 4 fish at a time and allow at least a week for the bacterial filter to catch up.
Coral QT developed severe cloudiness
2 weeks ago, the coral QT turned murky. Not sure if this is bacterial, algal, or both. The cloudiness mostly looks off white, but sometimes light green. a 40% water change had no effect. The corals have not reacted negatively as of yet, but I won't be moving any from QT until this is sorted out. Hoping this will clear up on its own as I really do not want to add a UV to the system (ran my 205 reef for 15 years without a UV). Started the tank on automatic 3gal/day water changes this week; will see how things go over the next few weeks.
Abyzz Closed Loop not working with controller
The Abyzz 420 that runs the closed loop is currently on static output as I have been unable to get the Abyzz programmable multi controller working with it. Connected everything, and the controller displays that it sees the pump connected, but cannot figure out how to get the pump to run. Leaving this as-is for now while I work on the higher priority items.
Float Switch for Skimmer Collection Cup
Installed float switch on lid of MRC skimmer.
Skimmer Leak, Washdown pump failure
Skimmer arrived from MRC with 2 slow leaks, one around the black rectangular manifold box, one where the wash down recirc pump connected. Slow leak turned into medium fast (10 gallons overnight) when something in the non-operational wash down pump swelled and cracked. MRC sent a new, different wash down pump and 2-part epoxy for repairing the leak. Installing new wash down pump will be complicated, so I deferred to later and just put in a ball valve; will get to pump install later.
Apex Probes Installed in Sump
Outer walls of the sump are too thick for the magnets on the probe mounting bracket. Used internal support wall to mount.
Auto Water Changes Operational
Upper bucket is the reservoir for old DT water that will be used as NSW for the QT tanks.
Replaced RO/DI canister
The temporary patch I had installed blew out spectacularly one night. I had been in the habit of turning off the filter feed line at the wall after running it, but forgot about this last Sunday. Came down to water gushing out of 6" vertical splits in the canister, looked like a power washer nozzle set to "Fan". Learned exactly where the out-of-level patches are in the garage, with 1/2" standing water, and a small stream running down the driveway out into the street.
The new canister doesn't match the old ones, and uses a different lid, requiring all canisters to be removed so that the lids could be removed from the bracket. Got to do this 3 times due to leaks. New lid doesn't exactly match other lids: if bolted tightly to the mounting bracket it puts stress on the connecting pipe between the lids, resulting in a leak.
Waste Reservoir with Cutoff Float Switch for Coral QT
Installed just in time! One week later, skimmer went nuts overnight and filled the reservoir.
Since the last update:
- Finished filling the display tank
- Added Apex probe module and probes for display system (was previously monitoring only 2 of the QT systems)
- Finished plumbing and wiring of closed loop Abyzz pump
- Plumbed auto water change reservoir-- massive leak
- Re-plumbed water change reservoir, configured auto changes for coral QT and fish QT3
- RO/DI patch failed spectacularly
- Replaced failed canister on RO/DI -- 3 times
- Lost remaining 11 yellow tangs
- Restarted fish QTs with single fish in each
- Installed waste reservoir with cutoff switch for coral QT skimmer
- Replaced and rewired Apex modules on the Coral QT in attempt to resolve probe issues
- Discovered plumbing error that prevents RO/DI reservoir water level from ever reaching top float switch
Display Tank Filled
Display tank filled on December 10th. Have used Oceanic salt for most of the last 10 years, but Oceanic quit making it sometime in the last 2 years. Decided to give Kent Marine Reef Salt a try. Considered going back to Instant Ocean, which never gave me any problems in my first 12 years in the hobby, but decided against because of the gray sludge it leaves in the mixing container. Again, never saw any problems from the gray sludge, just got tired of having to clean the 7' tall mixing reservoir every 24 months or so. No residue issues thus far, though I was a little taken aback by the big tank taking 4 weeks to clear after adding the salt. Also don't love that the Kent salt has over 500 calcium.
Currently have a number of unresolved issues:
Apex probe module not working on coral QT
After running okay for 2+ months, the Apex probe module on the coral QT started crashing the Apex web interface. With the probe module connected, all web interface dashboards stop rendering. Even with all probes disconnected from the probe module, same issue. Tried replacing the probe module: no change. Tried re-wiring to shorten the USB wiring run to the probe module, attaching it directly to a power bar instead of to another module: again, no change. Next up: try Neptune tech support.
Noise problems with HyrdoWizard ECM63 and Tunze Streams
The 5 Tunzes running simultaneously create a low hum that can be heard up to 5 feet from the tank. Mildly annoying that they can be heard at all, but not a showstopper.
The Hydro Wizard, on the other hand, makes a higher pitched buzzing sound that cuts right through all the sound deadening and can be heard 30 feet away at the 2nd row sofa in the media area. It sounds like an electric shaver was left running inside a cabinet. While still quieter than any other tank I've heard, the noise really jumps out against the dead silence of the room.
My first thought was that it was the acrylic pump brackets vibrating along their 3' length and in turn exciting the FRP wall of the overflow. Started working on rubber bumpers for the bracket, then thought to try some tests first. Test #1: pinch the sides of the bracket with my hand to prevent/absorb any vibrations. No difference, and I immediately noted that there was no perceptible vibration in the bracket. Test #2: hold the bracket about an inch away from the wall. This also made no difference! Baffling. The noise outside the tank didn't recede until I held the pump and bracket almost a full foot away from the overflow wall. So it would seem that rubber bumpers will not do anything to help my situation.
Not sure what to try next. May just punt and program the powerbeads to not run during prime movie viewing hours.
Movement in Drain Plumbing
Earlier in this thread there were questions about additional support for the FlexPVC drain lines above the sump. At the time, I noted that I wasn't concerned because there was no visible or sensible vibration in the lines at up to 140 gpm during the initial freshwater flow and leak tests.
At that time, I was using a full-siphon 1.5" as part of the drain configuration because the parts for the 2.5" durso pipes had not yet arrived. The 1.5 siphon was taking the vast majority of the flow, which was okay except for the fact that it routed to the side of the sump, bypassing all the filter socks. I decided to switch to the three 2.5" durso pipes for all expected flow and reserve the two 1.5" drains for emergency overflow.
Unfortunately, the turbulence of the durso drains has resulted in the flex pvc lines jumping around violently under flow. I have to dial all the way back to 40 gpm to get remotely acceptable line movement, and even this is not something I'm comfortable with long term.
Next up, rework the plumbing to use a 1.5" full siphon for normal flow, this time routed to the filter sock bay, which in turn means that the 2.5" durso needs to be rerouted.
Remaining Yellow Tangs died
About one week after the last update, the remaining yellow tangs all stopped eating vigorously on day 1, ate nothing at all on day 2, started swimming near the top of the tank on day 3, and all died overnight that night. Ammonia was nonexistent; pH, salinity, and temp were all in range. Oxygen should have been fine between running a large airstone and having one of the largest Jebao poweheads agitating the surface. My best guess nitrites. I don't have a test kit for nitrites, but can't see what else would take out all of the fish in 2 tanks so quickly.
I feel horrible about destroying so many beautiful, healthy fish, and consider this a lesson for rushing into populating the QTs. I now have one fish in each QT and will stay at this until everything is stable for at least 2 months. When I do add to QT, it will be no more than 3 or 4 fish at a time and allow at least a week for the bacterial filter to catch up.
Coral QT developed severe cloudiness
2 weeks ago, the coral QT turned murky. Not sure if this is bacterial, algal, or both. The cloudiness mostly looks off white, but sometimes light green. a 40% water change had no effect. The corals have not reacted negatively as of yet, but I won't be moving any from QT until this is sorted out. Hoping this will clear up on its own as I really do not want to add a UV to the system (ran my 205 reef for 15 years without a UV). Started the tank on automatic 3gal/day water changes this week; will see how things go over the next few weeks.
Abyzz Closed Loop not working with controller
The Abyzz 420 that runs the closed loop is currently on static output as I have been unable to get the Abyzz programmable multi controller working with it. Connected everything, and the controller displays that it sees the pump connected, but cannot figure out how to get the pump to run. Leaving this as-is for now while I work on the higher priority items.
Float Switch for Skimmer Collection Cup
Installed float switch on lid of MRC skimmer.
Skimmer Leak, Washdown pump failure
Skimmer arrived from MRC with 2 slow leaks, one around the black rectangular manifold box, one where the wash down recirc pump connected. Slow leak turned into medium fast (10 gallons overnight) when something in the non-operational wash down pump swelled and cracked. MRC sent a new, different wash down pump and 2-part epoxy for repairing the leak. Installing new wash down pump will be complicated, so I deferred to later and just put in a ball valve; will get to pump install later.
Apex Probes Installed in Sump
Outer walls of the sump are too thick for the magnets on the probe mounting bracket. Used internal support wall to mount.
Auto Water Changes Operational
Upper bucket is the reservoir for old DT water that will be used as NSW for the QT tanks.
Replaced RO/DI canister
The temporary patch I had installed blew out spectacularly one night. I had been in the habit of turning off the filter feed line at the wall after running it, but forgot about this last Sunday. Came down to water gushing out of 6" vertical splits in the canister, looked like a power washer nozzle set to "Fan". Learned exactly where the out-of-level patches are in the garage, with 1/2" standing water, and a small stream running down the driveway out into the street.
The new canister doesn't match the old ones, and uses a different lid, requiring all canisters to be removed so that the lids could be removed from the bracket. Got to do this 3 times due to leaks. New lid doesn't exactly match other lids: if bolted tightly to the mounting bracket it puts stress on the connecting pipe between the lids, resulting in a leak.
Waste Reservoir with Cutoff Float Switch for Coral QT
Installed just in time! One week later, skimmer went nuts overnight and filled the reservoir.
overexposed
Acroholic
Do you add salt first, and then water? I found that the one time I did this, it created a "sludge" that stained my brute mixing container. I asked around after this happened, to find out why, and it seems that what happens when you do this is the alk and ca is so extremely concentrated when you start adding water that it causes the elements to precipitate out. And this is what people see as a "sludge."
I only made the mistake of adding salt first once, and ever since I have always started mixing nsw by filling the mixing container with water first. Never had the sludge problem again. (I use a second Brute mixing container instead of the one I stained while that first time. And it is still perfect looking 1.5 years later.)
nuxx
.Registered Member
My hero if this works!
Can't wait to try. Always add salt as I start to add water.
techreef
Premium Member
pmrogers,
Another possible explanation for your total loss of your yellow tangs is they were caught using cyanide, and died subsequently due to their exposure. I agree with your take-away lesson of going slow with additions to your QT's, but I'm just saying it may have not been your fault either.
Thanks very much for updating your thread with the challenges and setbacks you've been working through. It's all extremely informative.
Another possible explanation for your total loss of your yellow tangs is they were caught using cyanide, and died subsequently due to their exposure. I agree with your take-away lesson of going slow with additions to your QT's, but I'm just saying it may have not been your fault either.
Thanks very much for updating your thread with the challenges and setbacks you've been working through. It's all extremely informative.
Dmorty217
Saltwater Addict
Always water first and then salt. It seems to happen when you leave the salt mixed in the container for a few weeks. I always have a pump running but the grey sludge is there. I say "sludge" but it's hard like calcified substance with a grey tent that will break off of the inside of my 150g mixing container.
Dmorty217
Saltwater Addict
It wasn't because of cyanide if the yellows were collected from Hawaiian waters this you can be sure of
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