UCSB Santa Barbara NSW Natural Sea Water...
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Reefer Brian
In Memoriam
Reefski, are you listening to anything we are saying......HIGH PO4. Why put something into your system that you don't want in the first place. Yes, we all know that PO4 is treatable. What type of corals are you growing, SPS, LPS, Softies? I know that Ian and myself grow ALOT of SPS and LPS (Acans). Since it obviously docent work for us we have chosen to use a synthetic salt for our own safety and peace of mind. Your point dosen't seen to be valid if you want to lower the PO4 level by doing a water change, how will it lower if the NSW is higher in the first place. Wont it increase it? It only will if you treat it first, right? Most people don't have time to wait for a treatment of PO4 like you do. Cost for cost, driving 200 miles for NSW docent seen very cost effective to me, especially in a "big truck" and treating 1100g with some type of GFO. I prefer peace of mind over free NSW these days. I seems to work for you but not us, every reefer to his own...........
Reefski's
Active member
calm down. i am listening to everything you guys are saying which doesn't seem to me to be based on any real evidence, just a feeling. except for the PO4 levels which BTW is not really that high. of course zero is better but like i said if you are starting with as one of you said with 0.03 adding 10% water change water with 0.09ppm will not change your level much.
cost effective. how much do you think it costs to make 1100 gallons of water, salt, RO/DI, depletion of RO/DI membranes? probably close to $0.50 gallon. or about $550 for 1100 gallons.
my truck uses less than $100 gas, about $85, at this weeks gas price. my time is free. i don't pretreat the water with GFO. so it winds up at about $0.09 per gallon.
i hope to get to the point to do much less water changes and turn off my skimmer as my system matures.
you are right to each his own. it is working for me.
and if it gives you peace of mind not to use it that is fine with me.
i would like to see pictures of your tank now and in a few months using SSW.
can you post some pix how your tank looks now?
i think i am making a run up tomorrow or monday.
Carl
cost effective. how much do you think it costs to make 1100 gallons of water, salt, RO/DI, depletion of RO/DI membranes? probably close to $0.50 gallon. or about $550 for 1100 gallons.
my truck uses less than $100 gas, about $85, at this weeks gas price. my time is free. i don't pretreat the water with GFO. so it winds up at about $0.09 per gallon.
i hope to get to the point to do much less water changes and turn off my skimmer as my system matures.
you are right to each his own. it is working for me.
and if it gives you peace of mind not to use it that is fine with me.
i would like to see pictures of your tank now and in a few months using SSW.
can you post some pix how your tank looks now?
i think i am making a run up tomorrow or monday.
Carl
Reefer Brian
In Memoriam
Well, all I have to say is that a thriving SPS/LPS tank needs to have as little PO4 as possible, .03 or less. I shoot for zero. With the NSW provided, it just dosen't do it for me. When I started using it my customers tanks as well as my own, they all agreed that their tanks didnt look as they did while using a syn. salt mix. And these are people who dont know anything about reef tanks. They only want their tank to look nice in their office or business. That is the only evidence I have. I tried using it to save myself $$$ and to cut my overhead.....no thanks. Now do you understand where I am comming from. I buy synthetic salt by the pallet anyway, wholesale. Next time you go to fill up, drive safely. You posts are inconsistant anyway.
Reefski's
Active member
i understand where you are coming from. but i don't understand your last line.
huh? in what way inconsistent?
i think we have about beaten this to death.
what do you do to keep the PO4 low on your clients tanks?
i always drive slowly and carefully.
i am stil lintersted in the before and after pictures. show us the difference. even better that you see lots lot tanks before and after with your business.
Carl
audiowerks
AKA Werks
whatever the quality, people are still using it. when i picked up water on sat, I had to wait behind three other people picking up water.
glaudds
New member
Were you there in the afternoon? Three people came right after me and one of them was kind enough to give me a jump. A big thank you to the fellow reefer that helped me out!
I don't get up there regularly, so when I do, I pick up about 100 gallons (good for about 5 water changes). I mix my saltwater inbetween runs. I have had no issues with the water and the tank doesn't seem to suffer from it.
Again a big thank you to whoever gave me a jump. It would have been hard trying to explain to AAA where I was.
Reefski's
Active member
it is very difficult to tell AAA where your are. i locked my keys in the truck one time and it took them three phone calls and two hours to get to me. and i was walking along on the street where i couldn't miss the guy as he drove by.
"ocean side of campus, from the south entrance stay left along the beach" doesn't seem that difficult.
"ocean side of campus, from the south entrance stay left along the beach" doesn't seem that difficult.
audiowerks
AKA Werks
I've been using the UCSB water for about 6 years now and still continue to use it. I was one of the first ones from RC to use it and provided the information to the original poster of this thread. So as you can see, I've been using it for some time.
Since I've switched to NSW, I have seen a dramatic improvement in my corals. And yes I keep all varaites. I also have a lot of sponges as well growing in my tanks and sumps that help with so of the water filtering.
Most of you have seen my tanks in person and know how they look. So I'm incline dto agree with Carl that it's not necessarily a a PO4 issue or NSW issue with your tanks but something else. But try what you may tp make it right.
As for me, yep I do 50% water changes on my tanks. I actually go early on Sat or Sun morning, get 250G and drive home and do a water change. No heaters, filters or anything on the water. Just drain out 1/2 my tank and refill. Been doing it this way for years with no problems.
Just my .02 cents. Your Milage may vary.
Since I've switched to NSW, I have seen a dramatic improvement in my corals. And yes I keep all varaites. I also have a lot of sponges as well growing in my tanks and sumps that help with so of the water filtering.
Most of you have seen my tanks in person and know how they look. So I'm incline dto agree with Carl that it's not necessarily a a PO4 issue or NSW issue with your tanks but something else. But try what you may tp make it right.
As for me, yep I do 50% water changes on my tanks. I actually go early on Sat or Sun morning, get 250G and drive home and do a water change. No heaters, filters or anything on the water. Just drain out 1/2 my tank and refill. Been doing it this way for years with no problems.
Just my .02 cents. Your Milage may vary.
TracyZeuner
New member
I know this question has been asked a thousand times, so how about 1001! How long can NSW be stored? I have 2- 45 gallon cans with lids that I use now for my water changes. Is there anything that needs to be done to the stored water once I am ready to use it(does it need air stone or a pump to circulate before I do a water change)?
audiowerks
AKA Werks
here's my 02 cents,
Watch any documentery about the worlds oceans and you will see that the sea water off the coast of california is unique. it contains very high amounts of dissolved nutrients, that is why the giant kelp can grow an astonishing 18" a day.
now the water around the world's coral reefs is considered to be very nutrient poor " an underwater desert" (from blue planet BBC)
that would lead me to conclude that water collected from the coast of california would be highly unsuitable for our aquariums.
there is also the question of the bacterial content of the water, ask any surfer and they can tell you about the bacteria in the water!
however, I have had good luck growing coral in this water, maybe because most of the corals commonly available are from lagoon environments.
Recently switching to a quality synthetic has increased colors dramatically from the NSW, I'll have to wait and see if the growth is as good!
Watch any documentery about the worlds oceans and you will see that the sea water off the coast of california is unique. it contains very high amounts of dissolved nutrients, that is why the giant kelp can grow an astonishing 18" a day.
now the water around the world's coral reefs is considered to be very nutrient poor " an underwater desert" (from blue planet BBC)
that would lead me to conclude that water collected from the coast of california would be highly unsuitable for our aquariums.
there is also the question of the bacterial content of the water, ask any surfer and they can tell you about the bacteria in the water!
however, I have had good luck growing coral in this water, maybe because most of the corals commonly available are from lagoon environments.
Recently switching to a quality synthetic has increased colors dramatically from the NSW, I'll have to wait and see if the growth is as good!
Reefer Brian
In Memoriam
Thats one reason I stopped surfing after years of doing it, ear infection after ear infection. My ears and sinus' couldnt handle it anymore. I still suffer from the affects. My tank suffers from use of it as well.
No big deal on reasking a question. I could be mean and say read the whole thread as it's been answered but i wont.
My 2 cents, as long as you want. I've stored it for several months at a time without doing anything to it other than keeping the lid on my storage trashcan. No ill effects that I could detect.
An answer to you two, Audiowerks and reefer brian,
UCSB uses this same water that we collect in the research facility. They do nothing more to the water they use than they do to the water we can collect. So if there really was a problem with bacteria or high nutrients, one would think that they would be doing other filtering or modifing of the water for their research. But they don't. reason being, they return it straight back to the ocean once they are done with it. Actually, their entire system is a constant flow thru system. They filter it thru large sand bed filters and then store it for their, and our usage.
I've seen both their unfiltered and filtered storage tanks and I can say this, the unfiltered water storage tank, even without light, has a ton of stuff growing in it. The filtered storage tank is crystal clear. One would think that if there was something left in the water after filtering, one would see something growing in the storage tank.
I've had better results since I switched to NSW and even saw a decline in my tank when I witched back to ASW when we had teh heavy rains one year. After seeing the filtering system they run and talking to the director of the systems, I have no problems getting water anytime I need it now seeing ho as they run the system 24/7 365 and it constantly flows thru their research systems.
But to each his own. Good luck with your tanks in what ever manner you decide to take care of them. What works for one will not necessarily work for another.
Reefski's
Active member
to elaborate on what Ray said a bit. after filtering, the water is pumped to the top of the tallest building near the Marine science dept, several stories tall, into a couple of 5,000 gallon tanks and then gravity flows down through the Marine labs and out into the bay and the lagoon. about 800 gallons per minute.
it does seem reasonable that there might be contaminants of one kind or another that we can't measure.
maybe that could be an avenue for the scientists at the university to explore.
i would still like to see the before and after pix of tanks using NSW vs ASW.
Carl
it does seem reasonable that there might be contaminants of one kind or another that we can't measure.
maybe that could be an avenue for the scientists at the university to explore.
i would still like to see the before and after pix of tanks using NSW vs ASW.
Carl
Reefer Brian
In Memoriam
Do any of their research tanks consist of a tropical reef like ours? Just curious.
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