ULN Tank and Alkalinity

vitodog

New member
I recently read from a post here on RC concerning a ULN tank. One of the respondents stated that Alk. should be maintained at around 7 ppm in a ULN tank. However, this statement was not backed up with an explanation as to why Alk should be maintained at this level. Can anyone shed some light on this statement? Is it true and if so, why? Thank you.:confused:
 
Besides Lower feedings to your fish, blowing off the organics off the rocks, sand, and areas where detritus may accumulate, consistent water changes are ways to maintain a ULNs. Mostly ULN system have nitrates and phosphate down to undetectable nitrates and 0.4-0.1 phosphates.
 
A number of people have reported issues with higher alkalinity, and they seem like credible reports, but we don't have any idea as to what might be happening. Other people run ULN systems with higher alkalinity and have no problems. I'd probably just leave well enough alone if I were running a tank, and deal with coral problems if they showed up.
 
OK, well thanks everyone for you responses. I was curious about the statement because I have what I guess would be considered a low nutrient tank. No3, Po4, consistently at 0.00. I know every tank is different, for that reason I feel that there might be some validity to the statement. I did lower my Alk from 9.12 dkh to 7.56 dkh and Ca is at 420 ppm. I have not noticed any difference in my corals good or bad. Thanks again everyone.
 
OK, well thanks everyone for you responses. I was curious about the statement because I have what I guess would be considered a low nutrient tank. No3, Po4, consistently at 0.00. I know every tank is different, for that reason I feel that there might be some validity to the statement. I did lower my Alk from 9.12 dkh to 7.56 dkh and Ca is at 420 ppm. I have not noticed any difference in my corals good or bad. Thanks again everyone.

It only seems to happen when using bacterial "carbon dosing" methods.

Some people call this ULN, but it is kind of misleading because it involves more than just keeping your nutrients low.

I havn't heard of many people having problems with elevated Alk on a tank that is "clean". But if you use biopellets, zeovit, vodka dosing, etc. you may have problems with elevated alkalinity. I suspect it is more about the elevated bacteria levels and not so much about low nutrients.
 
It only seems to happen when using bacterial "carbon dosing" methods.

Some people call this ULN, but it is kind of misleading because it involves more than just keeping your nutrients low.

I havn't heard of many people having problems with elevated Alk on a tank that is "clean". But if you use biopellets, zeovit, vodka dosing, etc. you may have problems with elevated alkalinity. I suspect it is more about the elevated bacteria levels and not so much about low nutrients.

+1 Exactly. not just clean tanks, but ULNS tanks.

I also agree with what bertoni said... let the corals do the talking.
 
Agreed with the above. A significant conceptual issue with so-called ULN tanks is that almost everyone (if not everyone) who is purposefully running an "ultra low nutrient" tank has absolutely no idea what high vs. low inorganic nutrient supply is like relative to corals in nature. The very lowest levels of detection with hobbyist grade kits are in fact rather high nutrient levels compared to a natural reef. Hence, undetectable nutrients could mean that nutrients are on the high side, but undetectable, or they could be extremely low. Since they are undetectable there is, by definition, no way to know.

A major factor which is entirely or almost entirely unappreciated amongst reefkeepers which controls nutrient supply to corals, algae, etc. is water flow, and hence mass transfer. The corals don't care one iota how much nitrogen, phosphorus, etc. there is in the water, they care how much they are receiving. At low flow rates, high nutrient concentration is required to provide high delivery of nutrients to the corals. At high flow rates a much lower concentration of nutrients is required to deliver the same amount of nutrients (as related to changes in diffusive boundary layers and mass transfer).

I'm reminded of a conversation I had a few months ago with Marlin Atkinson, one of real experts on coral reef biogeochemistry. Marlin was running some experiments in a flume (i.e., experimental aquarium) which by reef tank standards had pretty strong flow. However, the corals took up nutrients much more slowly than they do out on the barrier reef flat here in Kaneohe Bay. In order to get the corals to take up nutrients at about the same rate as they do in nature he had to increaes the nutrient concentrations by nearly an order of magnitude which compensated for our inability to provide the kind of flow that corals in these kinds of high energy environments receive.

Suffice to say, it becomes a complicated endeaver to compare reef tanks to natural reefs. Measured parameters are a very useful guide, but they need to be coupled with careful observation of the critters. Whether the nutrient supply "feels" high, low, or in between to the coral depends on multiple factors and the nutrient concentration alone isn't remotely sufficient to describe what's going on.

cj
 
FWIW,Been dosing vodka and vinegar for over 3.5years. PO4, < .04ppm ,NO3 <0.2ppm. Alk 9.3dk ;no burnt tips . There are lot's of well fed fish and corals and a good deal of particulate organics around though.

Why burnt tips occur in some cases is a matter of speculation with a variety notions as to the cause; such as: nitrogen deficiencies relative to growth rates, rapid nutrient availability shifts, organics interfering with symbiont bacterial activity, bacterial activity depleting certain trace elements and/ or ammino acids ,clear water with more intense light ,etc.
 
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