uM Ich Filter

[Neptune777]

Since the life cycle of Ich has a critical free swimming stage (that lasts for a brief period) isn't it theoretically possible to use an "inline" micron filter of an appropriate size to catch all the free swimmers? The filter could be a series where larger partilces are filtered out first by various filter medias, and then ultimately the Ich gets filtered with an appropriate sized micron filter.

Anybody care to comment......as this might be a good option for a fully established reef tank where you can't easily fish everything out. Perhaps run this special filter for a month or 2 to clear an infestation. The filter cartidges would be changed daily or every other day etc....

Just brainstorming here...

 

[acidlittle]

That would kick the free swimmers, but the ICH on the fish themselves would still breed and create more free swimmers, thus it would only be a small bandaid and probably not work exactly like you hoped. Just my thoughts based on my LIMITED knowledge of ICH

 

[Neptune777]

The idea is to break the life cycle....no free swimmers = no Ich on the fish in short time.

I'm thinking a 10um filter sock in a filter housing that will prevent bypass. This site linked below has them but they are a wee bit pricey....although I am tempted. The way i see this working is by using very high flow through the filter (that is the downfall with UV.....flow is very slow to work properly and usually doesn't get every beast in the water).

Housing: This one is rated for 55 GPM and 100psi.....that's 55 gallons a minute (i.e. 3300 gph)
http://www.filterbag.com/x100.html

Bags:
http://www.filterbag.com/x100-bags.html

 

[andrewsmart]

the free swimming stage is ver short.

it would be impossible to catch all free swimming ich.

this kind of thing and uv is only any good for stopping ich moving from 1 tank to another.

 

[acidlittle]

Yeah, because there is no way to guarentee that you can catch all the free swimming ich, there could be just one spec of it that doesn't get filtered and you would have accomplished nothing...

 

[Neptune777]

That's why you do it for a couple months....over time the number of free swimmers will diminish. Also don't forget...there are 2 stages in the life cycle where the parasite is free in the water column....one where the average size is about 100um and the other is about 25um....there is plenty of opportunity to filter these out in a small body of water with high flow.
The imapact would not be immediate....you would have to allow time to break the cycle.

 

[acidlittle]

Just seems that eventhough you will diminish the numbers there will be some, whether one or two, swimmers that are not caught. While this method could be very beneficial to reduce the amount in the water, I don't think that it is giong to be 100% effective.

The only way to find out if it works is to try it! So by all means go for it! I'd love to see the results.
Josh

 

[andrewsmart]

from what i hav read the free swiming stage is quite literally only minutes in a month long life cycle.

 

[Neptune777]

Actually the disassociation stage lasts up to 18hrs....these are the free swimming adults that have released from the host fish. The are about 100um in size. The theront stage lasts 24-48hrs while they search for a host. These are about 25um in size. Both stages would be available in the water to be filtered out if done efficiently.

Again this is a hypothetical treatment for an established reef where hyopsalinity or manual extraction of the fish is nearly impossible. For a 100gal tank you could conceivably "super filter" the water 330 times an hour if you could run at the rates I mentioned earlier. You would have 18-48 hrs to capture the free swimming stages......over time you could conceivably get all of them....

 

[Paul B]

You could easily filter out ich with a diatom filter. Of course it will not cure your fish because as was said, it is attached to your fish. Theoretically, if you keep a diatom filter running continousely, you should be able to filter out most of the ich, but I still doubt it will clear a tank entirely. Of course if you get a diatom filter running for a while and filter the water into another tank, that tank should be free of ich.
Paul

 

[andrewsmart]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9710045#post9710045 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Neptune777
Actually the disassociation stage lasts up to 18hrs....these are the free swimming adults that have released from the host fish. The are about 100um in size. The theront stage lasts 24-48hrs while they search for a host. These are about 25um in size. Both stages would be available in the water to be filtered out if done efficiently.

Again this is a hypothetical treatment for an established reef where hyopsalinity or manual extraction of the fish is nearly impossible. For a 100gal tank you could conceivably "super filter" the water 330 times an hour if you could run at the rates I mentioned earlier. You would have 18-48 hrs to capture the free swimming stages......over time you could conceivably get all of them....

but that assumes they are actually free swiming in the dissasociation stage do that not head straight down awy from the light to find substrate.

what you are suggesting may well filter enough to stop ich killing but i personaly doubt you would get it all.

you would need to filter forever to stop ich multiplying again.

 

[Hattie B]

Interesting, I see your thought process, and how you are coming to it. I filter all sorts of drugs, chemicals/compounds on a daily basis.

I see Andrews points though too, maybe benefical on a transer method.

Do you have a large tank with ich? This would be really interesting to follow. (check VWR lots and lots of filters there, maybe a better price too?).

 

[Neptune777]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9710401#post9710401 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
You could easily filter out ich with a diatom filter. Of course it will not cure your fish because as was said, it is attached to your fish. Theoretically, if you keep a diatom filter running continousely, you should be able to filter out most of the ich, but I still doubt it will clear a tank entirely. Of course if you get a diatom filter running for a while and filter the water into another tank, that tank should be free of ich.
Paul

They are only attached to the fish for a portion of their lives....after they break free (to complete the cycle) they would be available to be captured.

 

[Neptune777]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9710674#post9710674 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by andrewsmart
but that assumes they are actually free swiming in the dissasociation stage do that not head straight down awy from the light to find substrate.

what you are suggesting may well filter enough to stop ich killing but i personaly doubt you would get it all.

you would need to filter forever to stop ich multiplying again.

How about a BB setup with tons of flow to keep everything in suspension (like most BB setups)?

I think it requires a test to see if this could work....anyone know what is the smallest size particle the Magnum Micron Cartridge will capture? I have a H.O.T. sitting around and I could use it on a small tank....Or I might search for a cheaper Filter Sock Housing....

 

[Neptune777]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9711861#post9711861 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Hattie B
Interesting, I see your thought process, and how you are coming to it. I filter all sorts of drugs, chemicals/compounds on a daily basis.

I see Andrews points though too, maybe benefical on a transer method.

Do you have a large tank with ich? This would be really interesting to follow. (check VWR lots and lots of filters there, maybe a better price too?).

Thanks....what is VWR? do you have a link by chance?

 

[TerryB]

UV lights are more helpful at stopping the spread between tanks in a multitank system when all the water has to pass through the UV to get to the next tank. It won't remove all the ich from a single tank. The infective stage usually exists the tomonts on the rock and substrate at night when the fish are less active. They can swim directly to the fish within seconds. The UV would get some, but not enough to cure the fish and clear the tank.

Terry B

 

[Neptune777]

Hi TerryB,
Rather than UV I am talking about tons of turnover through a high volume pump and appropriate micron filter. I read your articles on Ich....very informative! Do you know if anyone has tested or tried this method of control/eradication?

How mobile are the parasites in the infective stage? Can they swim through say 1200gph of random flow (Vortechs and maxi Mods) in a 120gal....easily to a fish. I am proposing high volume super filtering while having lots of random flow in the system.

 

[jgoodrich71]

The problem I see come with using an appropriate micron size and getting adequate flow through the filter. I have used magnums with diatom powder to "help" other methods in removing ich. The problem is the the filter clogs in no time, and flow is greatly reduced. This method also may harm the corals in that reef tank. If you are filtering out the ich, you are also filtering out the food for the corals.

 

[Neptune777]

That's why you need a series of filters finally ending up at the micron filter (i.e. remove all the big stuff first without seriously restricting the flow).

As far as harming corals....this would not cause any serious affect if done short term. Besides, you can always shut off the pumps for an hour or 2 in the evening during "treatment" to feed corals with DT's or something else.

Did you notice any benefits when using the magnums w/diatom powder?

 

[jgoodrich71]

I was using it with UV and copper, so I was kinda throwing everything I had at it :lol:. I really don't know if it helped or if it was the other things that did it.