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Rare species
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A rare species are an organism which are very uncommon or scarce. This designation may be applied to either a plant or animal taxon, and may be distinct from the term "endangered" or "threatened species" but not "extinct". Designation of a rare species may be made by an official body such as a national government, state or province. However, the term is used more commonly without reference to a specific criteria. The IUCN does not normally make such designations but may use the term in its scientific discussions.[1] ...
The concept of rarity is established from having a very small number of organisms worldwide, usually a number less than 10,000; however, the concept is also influenced by having a very narrow endemic range and/or fragmented habitat.[2]
A species may be endangered or vulnerable, but not considered rare if, for example, it has a large, dispersed population but its numbers are declining rapidly or predicted to do so. Rare species are generally considered threatened simply because the inability of small population sizes to recover from stochastic events, and the potential for a rapid decline in population
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/rare
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to:navigation, search
A rare species are an organism which are very uncommon or scarce. This designation may be applied to either a plant or animal taxon, and may be distinct from the term "endangered" or "threatened species" but not "extinct". Designation of a rare species may be made by an official body such as a national government, state or province. However, the term is used more commonly without reference to a specific criteria. The IUCN does not normally make such designations but may use the term in its scientific discussions.[1] ...
The concept of rarity is established from having a very small number of organisms worldwide, usually a number less than 10,000; however, the concept is also influenced by having a very narrow endemic range and/or fragmented habitat.[2]
A species may be endangered or vulnerable, but not considered rare if, for example, it has a large, dispersed population but its numbers are declining rapidly or predicted to do so. Rare species are generally considered threatened simply because the inability of small population sizes to recover from stochastic events, and the potential for a rapid decline in population
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/rare
jrb_dakine
Member
Hey Mucho Reef,
I'm one of those who presses his face up against his tank and gets excited when I see a new zoa/paly forming! And I beg to differ my friend, we love our zoas and palys because of all the disticnt colors and markings that we can see with our naked eyes. C'mon you know you sit in front of your tank smiling at what you've collected and what starts to grow and thrive in your tank? We all do, thats why we are here on the Zoanthid Forum!
Believe me i get your point, but I still dont see how the seller is responsible if someone is going to pay this amount? We as adults can say," Hey thats a beautiful paly but there's no way I'm gonna pay that price." and just refrain from buying.
We preach responsible reefkeeping and don't you think we should practice practical money management! Buyers are the reason these sellers get what they get. I wish I had baller status and could buy all these nice things but I guess I have to be content with my 24gal nano.
Much respect - jrb_dakine
jrb_dakine
Member
And one more thing, I just love the whole Lineage and yeah I bought it from so and so, so it has to be legit. Aren't we having fun yet!
Hello my friend
When I say press your face, I'm talking about to see the tiny details in that 1, 2 and 3 polyp frag and any like it being discussed in this thread. Of course, everyone should be happy with new polyp formation, it means you're doing something right. But when you have a 3 polyp frag sitting in your tank that you paid 2, 3 or $ 400 for, you have to press your face to enjoy it because you can't see those tiny 1/16 of an inch specks or flakes that you paid for if you're sitting in a chair just 3 feet away. And if you have to fill your tank with 50 of those 2 and 3 polyp $ 300 frags, you can't see those tiny specks from 6 ft away.
You're right, we as adults can say no, and believe me I do. The seller and the buyers have equally contributed to this issue. They continue to sell at these prices because reefers keep buying them.
On your third paragraph, I totally and completely agree with you sir. LOL, I don't know what baller status is, but I can certainly afford them, I simply choose not to give my money away for a polyp which might croak tonight.
We agree more than you think.
Mucho
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LOL, good one,
DVNO
Member
This is a better representation of them:
with no photoshop and under 400w radiums.
those are seriously gorgeous
TeebD
New member
I really don't understand the hate surrounding these latest and great polyps. Do you have to own these? Is your life going to end if you don't have them? If not, then you don't have to purchase them if you don't agree with the price. This a free market, this is how things work. It's simply supply and demand. They are really cool, but I wouldn't pay $200/polyp for anything, but that doesn't give me the right to hate on people that are willing to. Are you upset because you really want them, but don't want to pay $200 for them? I don't get it.
ErnieC
Member
Jefathome I am glad to hear that you sell in groups like 4 heads. I can't stand single polyp sales, especially shipped! I have always had much better success with 3-4 polyp frags. It drives me crazy when I see single polyps for sale for $100-$200 especially when there is a good chance that single polyp will not survive. Growing a single polyp to a colony can be a nightmare.
russ13
Member
a Babe Ruth baseball card is just a peace of paper to some people.to others it is worth alot of money.when you collet anything that doesnt have a set value like gold or diamonds.the price is dictated by the market.if you think it is to mutch dont buy them.you can have a great looking reef tank without spending alot of money on "named" corals.i think theese are great looking palys and i hope to see some in my tank one day.thats my 2 cents....oh,i also wanted to say i think this is the best tread on this site.there are so many great people who can help you with any questions you have.thank you all :beer:
justnmatt79
New member
The problem with this logic is there are a finite number of Babe Ruth baseball cards in the world, and the very limited amount around can only decrease. They will not grow. Coral, on the other hand, will continue to grow, and continue to produce. So sellers can resell their coral under the impression that they are just recouping their initial investment, when the $200 polyp they started with has produced 4 more, they will have sold $800 worth of 4 polyps. Seems like a for profit venture to me, and I believe it is wrong. They are not in this for the love of reefing, but to turn profits. I wholeheartedly agree with Mucho and the others who have stated their opinion against this.
To add: I understand why some consumer items are highly priced. In many cases they are truly limited or rare, cost of production is high, etc. What we should rail against, however, is things like Red Hornets, or whatever else named polyp is priced through the roof, because they are not limited or rare. These items are only rare because of the highly restrictive pricing on them. Lower prices would mean that many would be able to afford them, or would be more willing to purchase them, and more people would be able to enjoy them. We are witnessing a market in reef keeping where sellers are forcing rarity onto animals by jacking up prices, and because of these high prices, consumers are duped into believing these corals are "must haves".
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Very well said justnmatt
I think another piece of the problem is that some reefers do pay that price. The suppliers see stores selling them at these prices, and people paying them, and what are they going to do? Start increasing prices to the stores. What are the stores going to do? You think they are going to eat that loss?
Where does the price someone is willing to pay for something stop? Will we see someone foolish enough to buy a $1500 polyp? Sadly, if hyped enough, I know someone would, and that someone would be super proud of their $1500 polyp. Most likely come on every forum and praise the seller, all the while stating they think $1500 was a steal.
I don't see what the craze is on this one though. I wouldn't buy those for $25. Seriously.
I think another piece of the problem is that some reefers do pay that price. The suppliers see stores selling them at these prices, and people paying them, and what are they going to do? Start increasing prices to the stores. What are the stores going to do? You think they are going to eat that loss?
Where does the price someone is willing to pay for something stop? Will we see someone foolish enough to buy a $1500 polyp? Sadly, if hyped enough, I know someone would, and that someone would be super proud of their $1500 polyp. Most likely come on every forum and praise the seller, all the while stating they think $1500 was a steal.
I don't see what the craze is on this one though. I wouldn't buy those for $25. Seriously.
TeebD
New member
I disagree. Even though coral will grow, these particular zoas are still rare at the moment. If everyone had red hornets in their tank, there would multiple sellers and price would go down. There's a cost to being an early adopter. What's wrong with getting a little bit of your money back in this hobby, if some people are turning a profit, good for them. There is a line between hobbyist and business, but from what I can see, people are selling 1-2 polyps, not 50 at a time. Why is someone else motivation to be in this hobby and concern of yours? I can guarantee the people that are trading these high end zoas got into this hobby before the "selling" aspect ever occurred to them. It's good for the hobby. It drives sales in hardware, and I'm sure the people that are really into it didn't just get their tank last week. One thing you need to keep in mind is that seller's don't dictate prices, buyer's do. There is no "blue book" of corals that dictates pricing. If I could set the price I sold stuff at, I'd sell my "Fire & Ice" for $400 polyp and milk would be $50/gallon It still seems that you're just upset someone else was willing to pay more for something than you were.
justnmatt79
New member
My concern is that although this is a hobby, and many have different motivations to get into a hobby, this is profiteering off of collecting and breeding animals. Not barbie dolls or baseball cards. Go read the selling post. How many times does the seller state these are sooooo limited, sooooo rare, just released? Then you have Isseym328 saying they already had those awhile back. If that is the case then they aren't just released, obviously. On top of that, notice the massive amounts of obvious photoshopping being done to the photo in the seller's thread.
My issue with this is two-fold. One is that these selling practices are shady at best. The other is that we are not dealing with toys or manufactured collectibles. This hobby deals with living beings. If these animals (and let us always remember that these are living creatures) are so rare and limited, then why is this hobbyist is slicing and dicing them up into very fragile one polyp frags? One polyp frags have a far smaller chance of survival than a larger frag of multiple polyps. So they are already risking these animals' lives by cutting them up multiple times, and shipping them all over the country, in order to turn a profit.
The reason more hobbyists don't have these "premier" corals is because of the highly restrictive pricing sellers levy, thereby forcing their availability to be limited only by high price points. If the prices were lowered, then everyone would be able to enjoy them. But at some point, someone (who undoubtedly is no more an authority than Scoobie Doo on the rarity of corals) decided to say that what they have is rare, never-before-seen, limited edition, from the line of the kings, and charged insane amounts of money. And someone will buy, only because it costs a lot. There will always be consumers buying silly things at exorbitant prices, just because they can then say how much they paid for it, because it is so rare, never-before-seen, limited edition, from the line of the kings.
isseym328
Premium Member
Just to clarify, the colony that I obtained was from the same batch that all the LFS received that weekend. They looked cool so I picked them up. And then found out someone named them. I don't name corals but I guess I'm not a vendor.
And I tend to agree about the dicing and slicing, that is why the few 1-2 polyps that I sold I did not cut into the flesh. I dremeled around them so the buyer got a piece of the rock. I do view these corals as living beings, and it is hard sometimes to frag when you know you might be cutting into flesh. Ouch. Yet sometimes you can't get around it.
And I tend to agree about the dicing and slicing, that is why the few 1-2 polyps that I sold I did not cut into the flesh. I dremeled around them so the buyer got a piece of the rock. I do view these corals as living beings, and it is hard sometimes to frag when you know you might be cutting into flesh. Ouch. Yet sometimes you can't get around it.
Golden Angel
New member
How can you justify criticizing someone for charging $195/polyp when you were just charging $125/polyp for other zoas not that long ago? If someone wants to pay for it, let them. It's their money. If you think it's a ripoff, keep it to yourself. With corals more than any other hobby I know of, it's only worth what someone is willing to pay.
the808state
New member
How do you know these are really rare???? :lmao: You know another store just received the same exact polyps right? Still as "rare" as you think? You nor myself have no idea if/when more of these are coming in. How do you know there isn't 10-50 large colonies of this waiting to come in from the exporters right this second?
"I can guarantee the people that are trading these high end zoas got into this hobby before the "selling" aspect ever occurred to them. It's good for the hobby. It drives sales in hardware, and I'm sure the people that are really into it didn't just get their tank last week." Good for the hobby? I'd beg to differ. Good for the seller is more appropriate. Don't you think it would be better for the hobby if frags were more reasonably priced? Wouldn't more people have money for things like better lights, bigger tanks, better equipment? Not just the people selling $200 frags?
"It still seems that you're just upset someone else was willing to pay more for something than you were." Um no. It's the same thing as if I saw a Toyota dealer charging $100,000 for a $35k Toyota Camry. But it is brand new model!! right? No one has it. :spin1: What would you think of a Toyota Dealer that did that? Would you say good for them? So if someone paid $100k for a Camry...... does that make all Camry's worth $100k too? Clearly they are, if I follow some's coral pricing logic.
And don't ever tell me or anyone to keep this to themselves. EVER!!! If I and others want to discuss this, than we shall. If you don't like it and it bothers you, I suggest you not read it and keep your feelings to yourself.
