UV filter a potential cure/treatment for Cyanobacteria/red slime? It might just be!

[slief]

I've had a bit if Cyano in some areas of my display and refugium. Nothing major. Just a few spots. I've blasted it off & it comes back. It's generally confined to areas with lower flow. I have copious amounts of flow in my tank but due to my aquascape & tank size, there are a few areas out of the path of the main current. I treated several months back with red slime remover which worked and wiped it out for some time but I'm not a fan of the stuff if it's avoidable. Several months later & it started coming back. Experience tells me this stuff isn't driven by or PO4. I don't have detectable nitrates & never do. My PO4 is around .07. I don't have any nuisance algae issues in my display either.

Last week I was mulling my options for dealing with the cyano when it occurred to me that my UV bulbs were over a year old & neglected. I run a 114 watt Aqua UV unit. During the summer months I run it opposite my day lights to keep temps down in my tank. It was running 12 hours a day. I wouild have replaced them anyways but I checked them and both were burnt out. I knew I had neglected them anyway.

Since Cyano is a bacterial form as I understand it, I figured it would be worth replacing the bulbs in a hurry to see what would happen. I even had this discussion with my friend Jim who was sceptical but understood my logic. 72 hours ago the sleeves were cleaned & the new bulbs went in. It's been running 24x7 since. As of today, the cyano is peeling off the rocks in sheets & waving in the current while other spots are separating from the rocks with large gaps between the cyano & rock. To me this is a very good sign.

Personally, I think this is more than a coincedence. I've always been a proponent of UV filters even in a reef system. I don't run my UV with low flow but instead a middle ground between maximum sterilization & polishing. Obviously, it's still premature but I'm optimistic that this may be a good solution for cyano.at least in my tank anyway. I will continue to update this thread over the next several days.

Here are a couple very brief video clips from two of the larger spots showing what's happening to the cyano. Pictures are worthless.
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[Stolireef]

My 2 cents and probably not worth even that much but if you have cyano you will rarely measure PO4 or nitrates because the Cyano is taking it up before it shows in the water column tests.

 

[ca1ore]

I'd tend to view UV as helpful against cyano in the same way that it can be helpful against the ich parasite. It's not going to remove 'it' but may reduce pathogen pressure such that other, natural processes can win out.

 

[slief]

My 2 cents and probably not worth even that much but if you have cyano you will rarely measure PO4 or nitrates because the Cyano is taking it up before it shows in the water column tests.

While the cyano may feed on PO4 and nitrates, the rest of my tank is winning the war in the nitrate department as that's non existent on tests. Truth is I only have a few patches of cyano in my display and some in my refugiums. Cyano has never really been a real problem in my tank nor has any other algae. Just an annoyance as it's the only nuisance algae form in my 480G display.

I do however have a fairly extensive and healthy system with a lot of flow It's designed to be well prepared in dealing the nutrients. I have about 650 gallons of water in the system along a lot of life and biological filtration to utilize those nutrients. There is roughly 1000 pounds of live rock, a 36"x 30" inch refugium with a healthy DSB with 2" of mud below it and some live rock rubble. All my tanks water passes through it as it's down stream from my main sump. There is also various macro varieties including a huge 30" x 20" x 12" thick mass of chaeto which gets pruned regularly by the gallon bag full. I have a second 30 gallon cube display refugium that has mangroves and other macro along with some soft corals. That cube is getting upgraded to a 60 cube probably this weekend. This in addition to a mess of thriving soft coral in the main display and the separate primary sump upstream from the primary fuge. That sump is 36" x 40" and has four 200 micron socks and BK SM250 skimmer that is always working hard.

PO4 however is always somthing that's present in my system. I attribute that primarily to my fish load and feeding as well as the age of my system.. My tank has been up for over 10 years since the last major overhaul and some of the rock that makes up my aquascape had been in my tank for up to 10 years prior to that so we are talking some live rock that's been with me for nearly 20 years. PO4 is most certainly bound to my live rock feed all kinds of dry and frozen foo. I do run GFO and use only 0 TDS RODI water but PO4 is always something that's present. Every now and then my PO4 will get beyond.10 at which point I do a very slow LaCl dose via an IV bag into 10 micron socks to knock it back down to .04. Then it will rise back to .10 to .12 over the course of several months or more..I have my LaCl treatment down to a science but only use it a couple times a year if that and have a routine that works great and doesn't impact my fish, coral or inverts.

That said, I've never noticed a correlation between the PO4 levels and my cycano growth but you could be right. I have however seen a correlation between PO4 and other nuisance algae growth. That's how I know when it's time to do my LaCl treatment. Either way, the UV seems to be impacting the Cyano. Every patch of it is separating from the rocks below. The change began within 48 hours of the bulb change and was very noticeable today. I've been paying close attention to because it was the cyano that ultimately prompted me to check and service my UV.

I'd tend to view UV as helpful against cyano in the same way that it can be helpful against the ich parasite. It's not going to remove 'it' but may reduce pathogen pressure such that other, natural processes can win out.

That is reassuring to know that you think UV may have some benefit when it comes to cyano. I figured since it's bacterial, some of it or what ever was contributing to it could be free floating in the water and may be sensitive to UV filtration. Since we treat that with antibiotics, I thought the UV could help reduce it at the very least. I certainly don't know much about cyano so getting my UV online was just a a shot in the dark hunch. I do feel I have reason to be optimistic at this point that it's helping based on what I've seen thus far in the wake of the UV being back on line. There definitely has been a correlation there but time will tell how effective this has been. I'm sure the next several days will be very telling.

As for UV and ich... When I had my one and only ich outbreak in this tank, the UV didn't help. Nor did any other reef safe remedy like Medic, Kick Ich, Garlic, lowered salinity etc. It was a bad case of it and I lost many fish as a result. There was no catching and QT'ing my fish because of the tank size and rock work and there was no treating my system with more effective methods because of all the corals and live rock.. It was heart breaking and avoidable.

 

[Realposition]

I fought dinos for at least a year, i tried everything from every thread i could read about beating dinos. i fed less, raised PH, did black outs, lots of water changes then no water changes, manual siphoned out every day, nothing made any difference as soon as the lights came on dinos would come back. i spent a year basically starving my fish and corals fighting a phosphate problem i never really had. i never read more than .03 phosphates, everyone would tell me oh its getting used up before i could test for it but no matter how much i cut back the dinos would come back. finally i was fed up i read several threads about people who had success with UV. i bought a 40w aqua UV sterilizer , i ran it at about a medium flow and within 1 day dinos were 80% gone, 2 days 100% gone. i never saw a uptick of phosphates even tho i returned to feeding like i used too. i would never run another tank without a UV sterilizer

 

[Mr sea water]

I have just got rid of it in three days with Erythromycin.

 

[Useful_Idiot]

I ran a 57 watt aqua UV on my system and had cyano continuously until I took the tank down. I strongly recommend UV but it didn't help with my cyano. When the bulb burned out cyano didn't get any worse just the water wasn't as clear. Otherwise water quality was good. PO4 usually ran around .08 and like your system never detected nitrates, not even a hint on a salifert kit.

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[ca1ore]

Few things more controversial than UV IMO. I used the word 'can' on purpose in my prior post. As a long time UV user, I believe it helps to keep lots of things under control - but this is my opinion, based on anecdotal observations, certainly not based on any sound scientific principles. I have ich in my tank, have had for a couple of years, yet is is controlled. I also have no cyano. Whether my UV is a factor I cannot say for sure, but at this point I am not inclined to remove it to find out :lol:

PS - just added a pair of Kessils to my tank, and it's mainly your fault! Sorry for the derail.

 

[Tweaked]

Witnessed first hand the effects of removing the uv from my system as I wasn't sure it was doing anything so I sold it. Many things started happening including cyano and what looked like dinos. I tried raising ph, stopped feeding, lights out, etc and damaged many of my colonies chasing down the bacteria growth. Wasn't till a month ago I purchased an AquaUV and installed it that I realized the good they do. Strong believer in UV on my tank.

 

[d2mini]

Very cool, Slief.
I've been going back and forth for the last year on whether or not I should add a UV to my system, especially since I already run ozone.
I think this will tip the scale and i'll pick one up for my rebuild.

 

[slief]

I fought dinos for at least a year, i tried everything from every thread i could read about beating dinos. i fed less, raised PH, did black outs, lots of water changes then no water changes, manual siphoned out every day, nothing made any difference as soon as the lights came on dinos would come back. i spent a year basically starving my fish and corals fighting a phosphate problem i never really had. i never read more than .03 phosphates, everyone would tell me oh its getting used up before i could test for it but no matter how much i cut back the dinos would come back. finally i was fed up i read several threads about people who had success with UV. i bought a 40w aqua UV sterilizer , i ran it at about a medium flow and within 1 day dinos were 80% gone, 2 days 100% gone. i never saw a uptick of phosphates even tho i returned to feeding like i used too. i would never run another tank without a UV sterilizer

I haven't had a dino problem in a long long time.. Perhaps that is the result of running a UV filter.. Good information.. Something else to add to the UV filter upside..

I have just got rid of it in three days with Erythromycin.

That is the same antibiotic used in Red Slime remover. While it does work for temporary removal, it impacts several things in the tank including good bacteria which is something I prefer avoiding for obvious reasons. I have a heavy load in my tank and when you mess with good bacteria, there can be consequences. While I have used it before with good success as far as temporarily removing cyano, I hate using it as it's not really "good" for the tank and certain inverts like anemones and soft corals respond adversely to it and will close up for days or longer. When anemones become unhappy, the tend to move too. My two RBTA's are giant and with one of them being over 2' across. They have been in the same spot for a couple years now. They absolutely need to stay where they are and I don't want to upset them and give them reason to move. It also requires the skimmer to be shuut down for a couple days which is something I don't like to do. Couple that with the required large water changes on a 650 gallon volume system and it is just something that should be avoid if at all possible. My system is really stable and I don't like messing with it's chemistry. While I have never lost any livestock as a result of Red Slime remover/Erythromycin, ultimately I see it as a last measure.


If my cyano presence goes away with the new UV bulbs, then it would tell me that by maintaining my UV filter, I can potentially avoid Red Slime all together. If that proves to be the case, which it looks like it will, I consider this a good learning experience and would be an added benefit of using UV filtration in a reef. UV threads come up constantly here and are a regular subject of debate. This may well be a valuable upside to running a UV filter in a reef tank.

Witnessed first hand the effects of removing the uv from my system as I wasn't sure it was doing anything so I sold it. Many things started happening including cyano and what looked like dinos. I tried raising ph, stopped feeding, lights out, etc and damaged many of my colonies chasing down the bacteria growth. Wasn't till a month ago I purchased an AquaUV and installed it that I realized the good they do. Strong believer in UV on my tank.

Good to know. I've always run properly sized UV filters on all my salt water tanks. Like you, I use AquaUV units and swear by them. I'm usually good about maintenance on them too. When I realized that the last bulbs were replaced in this one about a year and a half ago, I knew it was time to address that. My hope was that I would see positive results with the cyano and it appears that will prove to be the case. My lights are just now coming on and I can see a difference between last night and this morning. The cyano is absolutely coming off the rocks. It's color is seems to be changing too as it doesn't appear to be as red. More has dislodged and the patches are substantially smaller in fact any patches that are remaining are either flapping in the flow or raised off the rocks and holding on by threads. At this rate, any remaining cyano should be completely gone within the next several days or less.

 

[d2mini]

Make sure you run carbon and do some big water changes with all that die off.
When i did a lights out and killed off my cyano, I think that's what triggered my mini crash. That stuff is toxic.
See if you can suck out the stuff that is coming off the rocks.

And do you use the wiper version or the non-wiper?

 

[slief]

Make sure you run carbon and do some big water changes with all that die off.
When i did a lights out and killed off my cyano, I think that's what triggered my mini crash. That stuff is toxic.
See if you can suck out the stuff that is coming off the rocks.

And do you use the wiper version or the non-wiper?

I'm running carbon and do automated daily water changes. There isn't much of the cyano in my tank to begin with and I doubt I'd see any impact from the die of the few patches I do have. Especially given my tank size and water volume. I was thinking about sucking some out though which I might do later today if I decide to not be lazy. As it is, I had planned on swapping my display fuge from a 30G cube to a 60G cube later today if not tomorrow and I'm already considering postponing that so I can enjoy my weekend. A little siphoning would certainly be much less work. That said, I will most certainly heed your advice and kick off a larger water changes once the stuff disappears. Fortunately, a quick push of a button will result in a hands off water change of what ever size I want so it's not like that requires any effort and I have plenty of new water on hand at all times.

I do run the wiper version but I wasn't using it frequently enough. I should do it weekly and neglected the use of that feature for the last few months. Had I used it as I should have I probably would have noticed my bulbs were out. Then again, maybe not as they were set to turn on after my display lights went off to help keep my tank temps down during the heat of the summer. Right now they are running 24x7 and I will be staying on top of that.

 

[gone fishin]

I have always been on the fence concerning a UV. I realize they do serve a purpose when set up correctly. Since winter is upon us maybe I will pick one up and play with it. Thanks for sharing.

 

[d2mini]

I'm running carbon and do automated daily water changes. There isn't much of the cyano in my tank to begin with and I doubt I'd see any impact from the die of the few patches I do have. Especially given my tank size and water volume. I was thinking about sucking some out though which I might do later today if I decide to not be lazy. As it is, I had planned on swapping my display fuge from a 30G cube to a 60G cube later today if not tomorrow and I'm already considering postponing that so I can enjoy my weekend. A little siphoning would certainly be much less work. That said, I will most certainly heed your advice and kick off a larger water changes once the stuff disappears. Fortunately, a quick push of a button will result in a hands off water change of what ever size I want so it's not like that requires any effort and I have plenty of new water on hand at all times.

I do run the wiper version but I wasn't using it frequently enough. I should do it weekly and neglected the use of that feature for the last few months. Had I used it as I should have I probably would have noticed my bulbs were out. Then again, maybe not as they were set to turn on after my display lights went off to help keep my tank temps down during the heat of the summer. Right now they are running 24x7 and I will be staying on top of that.

Yup, I run daily auto water changes too.
Just didn't want to see you in the same boat as me.
You may have a less cyano than I did but couldn't hurt to up the gallons a bit for a couple days.

Reason I asked about the wiper is that I've seen where some people have reported leaks. I assume that is not the case for you though and you recommend the wiper version? I can see where it would be advantageous, but I can also see where it could be a weakness.

 

[slief]

Yup, I run daily auto water changes too.
Just didn't want to see you in the same boat as me.
You may have a less cyano than I did but couldn't hurt to up the gallons a bit for a couple days.

Reason I asked about the wiper is that I've seen where some people have reported leaks. I assume that is not the case for you though and you recommend the wiper version? I can see where it would be advantageous, but I can also see where it could be a weakness.

Wipers will typically weep a drop or two when you close the wiper shaft. Mine is no different but it's only a drop and not a persistent leak so it's not anything to worry about and dries right up. After 4 years of service, I've yet to have an issue with the wipers. The drop of water which some may perceive as a leak is normal and I absolutely recommend the wiper.. If you ask Aqua UV about that, they will confirm it's normal too.

As I said, I recommend the wiper as you use it with regularity. The wiper really does reduce build up on the outside of the sleeve and helps maintain the UV units efficiency while also reducing the labor of cleaning the sleeve. At home I have a dual bulb 114 watt Aqua UV with a wiper and at my office, I have a single bulb 25 watt Aqua UV without it. The office one is always more work due to the hassle of cleaning the sleeve while my 114 is easier to maintain and the sleeves always require less effort to clean them. This isn't my first UV with a wiper either and I wish I used a wiper model at my office but I got that one cheap and went with it. I used to be good about using my wiper but I slacked off in recent months. Probably about the time my bulbs died because there was very little calcareous build up on my sleeves when I cleaned them. In my opinion and experience, they are worth the additional expense.

Before my 114 watt Aqua UV with wipers, I had a very expensive commercial grade Tropic Marine Centre dual buib UV filter without a wiper. I had it for 10 or so years. While it was a great unit, cleaning the sleeves was a nightmare on that thing. As such, getting an new UV with wipers was the best choice I made and a lesson I learned.

This is much easier to maintain and much more effective.

 

[slief]

I figured I should update this thread. The patches of cyano I had in my tank and my display fuge are all pretty much gone. I didn't touch any of it my my display tank but did pick some of the cyano out of my display fuge as part of my normal pruning. I also didn't do any additional water changes over and above my normal 5 gallon per day automated water changes. I will be honest to say that I'm a bit surprised as my hunch was a shot in the dark so to speak. I'm definitely glad I got my new bulbs. I've always been a proponent of UV filtration and this gives me one more reason why I believe in them.

 

[d2mini]

Awesome. :celeb1:

 

[Ariel110G]

I ran a 57 watt aqua UV on my system and had cyano continuously until I took the tank down. I strongly recommend UV but it didn't help with my cyano. When the bulb burned out cyano didn't get any worse just the water wasn't as clear. Otherwise water quality was good. PO4 usually ran around .08 and like your system never detected nitrates, not even a hint on a salifert kit.

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this was your tank and you had UV running 24/7?

 

[B.BASH]

What size uv would you reccomend for a 250